Do I go Modeler or Not

Tony M. said:
How is this less gear and easier to carry than let's say a Fender Deluxe and a small pedalboard?
What am I missing here?????? :confused:
Click to expand...
Not sure what you are missing here, but here are some details that justifies this set up for ME!

1. My whole rack, including mixboard and pedal (Fractal FC12), is all in one rolling unit with all chords connected (except need to plug power chord into a source and plug guitar in).

2. I want amp x for song y and amp z for song a, I want cabinet b on song c but want pedals d, e and f on song g. Carry that (as in, all those different amps and all those different pedals). With this system, I can hit one switch on my FC12 foot controller and have amp A AND amp B and Cabinets A, B, C and D simultaneously, and 10 pedals dialed in to my liking for song F. Then next song, I hit one switch and I now have different amp, different cab, different pedals with different settings.

3. As much as I am sure purists will deny that amp modelers are ready for prime time, there are lot of world class artists who are using this equipment for just that. Of course the actual sound wave producer (i.e. speaker) is imperative in getting it to be an accurate representation of what you are feeding it, but many will just run from their modeler into the mixboard or PA and get results that satisfy. Next purchase for me is some nice FRFR's (currently using my JBL PA - thinking CLR but would love any feedback on why they are not the bomb). I am still discovering my sound and it is quite a bit easier for me to find my ultimate amp(s)/cab(s)/pedal(s) using one of these rather than trying/buying every one that this unit can simulate.

It is obviously not right for everyone, but I feel it is the perfect fit for me and am in a dreamland playing with it. Coupled with my 3 pack of PRSi, I could not be happier (my back included)!
 
I'm looking for a Kemper Kone (speaker) for my cabinet. I don't see them available anywhere. Must be a supply chain issue.
 
OK.
First of all, thank you for replying to my post # 19 calmly.
Reading back over it I see it as slightly ... agressive, which was not my intention at all.
My apologies for the tone. I guess I needed a modeler there. :p

I was missing something there because I am a dinosaur.
I take 1 guitar to a job and play the entire job with it.
Yes I take a backup just in case but 1 guitar, 1 amplifier and one small pedalboard.
The entire job, start to finish.

:eek:

In a live situation I have found in my fairly large amount of years playing out
that all I need are a clean sound, a dirty sound and clean and dirty spinny sounds.
A bit of delay and reverb are nice but not needed, and a wah if the job calls for it.
I can do all that with 5 pedals.

I go with if you have a pedal on your board that is only used for
1 chorus in 1 song it's not worth it. Leave it home.

Recording is different, I will use everything in existence to get "that sound"
but in a room with a bass and drums, all kindsa noise
and 30 motorcycles parked outside. Naah.
I just have fun and play.
 
Last edited:
Tony M. said:
OK.
First of all, thank you for replying to my post # 19 calmly.
Reading back over it I see it as slightly ... agressive, which was not my intention at all.
My apologies for the tone. I guess I needed a modeler there. :p

I was missing something there because I am a dinosaur.
I take 1 guitar to a job and play the entire job with it.
(Yes I take a backup just in case but 1 guitar, 1 amplifier and one small pedalboard.
The entire job, start to finish.

:eek:

In a live situation I have found in my fairly large amount of years playing out
that all I need are a clean sound, a dirty sound and clean and dirty spinny sounds.
A bit of delay and reverb are nice but not needed, and a wah if the job calls for it.
I can do all that with 5 pedals.

I go with if you have a pedal on your board that is only used for
1 chorus in 1 song it's not worth it. Leave it home.

Recording is different, I will use everything in existence to get "that sound"
but in a room with a bass and drums, all kindsa noise
and 30 motorcycles parked outside. Naah.
I just have fun and play.
Click to expand...
All said, I will admit, I am STUCK at the moment on ONE preset in my new Axe FXIII (Ruby Rocket Growl - factory preset with minor tweaks by me for eq and input/output levels)!!! Hard for me to play anything else because it sounds so awesome to me (mostly with my McCarty 594 HBII - and it is his 1st birthday today) ;~)) Then I started trying different amps, cabs, different mics on those cabs and it got even better! I am sure I will find other presets that are more appropriate for certain songs (at least that is my intention), but I have only had this thing for two weeks and am just getting up to speed on the learning curve for this unit. Another factor is, I have only had two amps in my life (neither of them even close to anything impressive) and a couple of pedals so I am a baby in the woods playing with big guns. Looking forward to "blowing up" my sound to levels beyond what I currently think are possible!!! This is also a situation where I don't have to worry about anybody but the sounds I am making! So as a one man band, I want to be able to have unique tones for each song to give them a feel of their own!! Most of my set up time now (since I got this rack rolling with the mixer and axe fx in it) is setting up and micing my percussion stuff ;~(( But hopefully much of that will be alleviated in a couple of months when my Farmer Foot Drum (12 pedal custom stained to match my HBII) is completed! I too am just having fun and playing, and glad you are as well Tony! Thanks for the input on keeping it simple, I do respect that and your experience!!!
 
Tony M. said:
How is this less gear and easier to carry than let's say a Fender Deluxe and a small pedalboard?
What am I missing here?????? :confused:
Click to expand...

In my case it dropped an 85lb guitar head, 3 cabs, a 4 space rack with my effects, a small pedalboard, a midi controller plus guitars, stands. It reduced cabling time too.

Having been in an original band opening for national acts. Unless we were first, we'd have 15 mins to setup, tune, and soundcheck before starting our set. Lights drop and the first notes are played.

Setting up the traditional rig, and potentially trouble shooting issues, creates pressure before the lights drop. When supporting nationals, the expectation is that you are entertaining from the first note. Being tension free - other than pre-show adrenaline - goes along to putting on a good show.

In contrast, my Helix rig was a 4 space rack that held (virtually, lol) my amp, my cabs and all my effects, prerouted and already connected. The rack also held my power conditioner and my wireless.

To setup, I'd just set mt rack on the ground next to my EV, which I kept behind me. I'd plug an XLR, already connected to Helix in the rack, into the EV. Then I'd take my Cat 5 cable, already connected to the Helix in the rack, to the front of the stage and plug it into the controller. Boom, whole rig setup and ready to go. Then, flip the Furman on and the entire system was ready.

By that time, the stage hand had already used my preconnected DI box to hook me to the house system and I'm tuning my guitars at the front of the stage.

By the time soundcheck starts, I'm tuned. I'm relaxed. Everything was easy. No potential issues. Lights drop, and we rock!!
 
You can replace your Amp and/or Cab with a HX Stomp for example. In fact you could do an entire 'gig' with nothing more than an electric Guitar plugged into a Stomp as the '8' blocks could be more than enough to add boost, distortion, OD, Reverb and/or delay instead of having to carry a complete pedal board too. Even if you do want to use your own pedals, adding something like a Stomp is a lot easier than also having to carry Amps/cabs with you and a lot easier to get the 'sound' right and consistent - especially if you play different sized venues.

I think by the time you get to the 'floor' units (Boss GT1000, Helix LT/Floor etc) then I think these are not 'quite' so portable but considering they are a complete Pedal Board, Amp, Cab etc, they are still 'easier' to gig with - no patch cable issues, no interference or battery issues, very easy to set up and pack away etc. However they are still quite large. Rack systems really need a rack and some foot control system but the fact you are not carrying around a heavy 'tube' amp that are more 'fragile' and less reliable, a Cab and maybe an Iso Booth with Mics with maybe 'back-ups' in case they go wrong, its a LOT more weight and work. You can back up your patches so that if for any reason your 'modeller' breaks/stop working, you can instantly download your patches to a 'new' replacement...

Each to their own and as this thread proves, Modellers are an excellent tool for a guitarist. It may not be the 'best' tool for 'EVERY' musician and situation, but they are at a Standard now that the Pro's significantly outweigh the Con's and the Audio quality is certainly 'good' enough that its not detrimental to the sound quality to the audience. Professional musicians are using modellers in their tool box for Studio recording, gigging, practice etc because the 'tool' works for them and their needs/situation.
 
I have some REALLY great amps but joined a band that wants to go direct with IEM's. The other gtr player has a Helix and the bass player has a POD Go.

I had trie a Helix Stomp before and also have a HX FX so I was already comfortable with the Helix line. I had heard a band with 2 gtrs direct. One had a Fractal FM3 that killed.

I would have bought an FM9 if they were available and used ones were out there, but they are hard to get and $$$$.

I looked hard at the Helix line again and went with a POD GO. It has the same sounds for the most part and was all I needed. I got an incredibly good deal.

Is it as good as an amp? Hell no! Is it good enough in a band situation? Practice with the band - Hell yeah! Gig - we will see....?

It certainly is nice not hauling stuff or putting wear and tear on my $$$$ amps!
 
I've gigged with an Eleven Rack and my Hughes and Kettner Grandmeister 36 set-up- the H&K with 2 1x12 cabs is lightweight, plenty loud and has lots of versatile options. The Eleven Rack is good- but there's issues with gigging ONLY with a modeler- you need to be damn certain all the output levels are exactly the same or your sound guy will screw something up. We use IEM's so monitoring isn't an issue and I just go straight to the board. I use a Voo Doo Lab midi controller with it as well. I like the variety with the Eleven Rack, but you can't beat the good old fashion tube amp and the LOOK- the blue lights coming through the head always get attention!
 
I mean, everyone owes it to themselves to try a modeling thing and see if it works for them.

If you’re hauling your own PA and/or have a dedicated sound engineer they can work alright, but I ran into issues being at the mercy of a different “sound guy” every show.

So then I started bringing an amp anyway so I didn’t have to rely on a good monitor mix to hear myself, and then at that point it was just like… f**k it, just bring an amp I enjoy playing through more.
 
I’m so old school I played one pickup archtops mostly for years. Then PRS got hold of my ears. I’m now 25 years into Tech21 amps. I have a main and a backup Trademark 60. Never a problem., except when a theater grip plowed into my amp one night and shattered the plastic phone jack. I have a pedal board for times when there’s no keyboard player, or a theatre gig. One clean sound, one dirty- done. It took me 50 years to find “my musical voice.” Last night, the keyboard player tested positive 4 hours before the gig. I didn’t find out till we got there. We rocked the joint with musicianship, not technology. My pedal board was at home.
 
Last edited:
I did Helix LT, then Pod Go, then back to the Helix LT. This was with 2 bands over the past couple years, though both dissolved in early stages so it's rehearsals rather than gigging, much to my frustration. I loved them, until we auditioned another guitar player who came in with a tube amp and suddenly mine just didn't sound up to snuff - and he was using a Bugera!! I went back to tubes, the band definitely noticed the difference. The modelers were nice, and convenient, but at the end of the day I just prefer tubes. Now that I've landed on the VHT D50 for my amp needs, it's still not a big deal to cart. It's a lightweight head, and I have 2 lightweight 112 cabs, that sound great. HX Effects for my pedalboard, and it's not a big deal of a rig to transport. Now, I just need to find a new band....
 
Hmmm. I'm still giving thought to going the modeler route, but won't be parting with my amp and pedal board to do so. My pedal board has only the essentials that I need: a TS808 as a boost, a BE-OD for my main dirty tone; a Small Stone that I use for some clean tones, a Walrus Audio SLO that I use as my reverb for all of my cleans and occasionally when slightly dirty, and an MXR Carbon Copy that I use for leads. I also use a loop switcher so, that adds weight but makes the convenience factor go way up so that I'm not tap dancing too terribly much.

All that said, I may try my hand at either a Headrush Pedal Board or a Helix LT.
 
Rhett Shull recently posted a video on this thoughts about the latest AxeFx, but in it he also talks about which modeler is good for what reasons. It really depends on your use case and tolerance for each model's ... downsides.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Ox vs. Helix or ?
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
ColonelForbin
ColonelForbin
DougUSMC
I do NOT need a new head - now help me choose one
3 4 5
Replies
82
Views
5K
Brenzy
Brenzy
S
I want to get an SE Santana or Custom 24, can't play either before I buy
Replies
2
Views
486
DHW
DHW
Back
Top