Differences in the same model

[Johnkenn]

Sorry if this has been discussed to death here. I’m new to PRS - literally avoided them for 20 + years because of preconceived notions…but picked up a DGT SE, plugged it in and was blown away. So pardon my enthusiasm.

The quality, setup, pickups - all made my Fenders and Epiphones feel like relics. Just clunky in comparison. Loved it so much I bought a maple Silver Sky SE too. I really wanted the RW neck too, and found a sub $500 deal that n a 2022 Moon White.
Which brings me to my question.

They’re reeeeally different. And not how I would expect the RW/Maple to be different Comparing the two, the RW has more harmonics, clank, squawk - just those classic Hendrix/SRV tones…and the maple neck was much less complex. Strangely, I hear the RW being brighter - maybe it’s more forward in the upper mids (which you’d think it would be the opposite) and the maple just sounded muddy and fuzzy on the bottom end. Seems like the RW neck was smaller, but that’s just by look and feel. Both pickup heights were set extremely close.

Is there THAT big a difference in RW? Did I get a dead neck or something on the maple? I mean - it sounded decent, but I wasn’t really satisfied - wasn’t bonding. Then the comparison kinda revealed that stuff. Have there been changes in the last several years?

 

[deathworlder]

Why do you think the fingerboard wood is the determinant factor, soundwise, between a single coil and humbucker guitar?

 

[Johnkenn]

Why do you think the fingerboard wood is the determinant factor, soundwise, between a single coil and humbucker guitar?

You must have missed the part where I said a bought a maple SS and then a RW one.

 

[Johnkenn]

Btw - I traded the maple SS for a sunburst DGT. Probably around the same age difference…and they sound pretty different too. The GT is just fantastic. Pickups are very single coil-y in a great way. The SB sounds fantastic, but not as much top end and is the pickups are def hotter. Not sure it’s quite as dynamic as the goldtop. Which is cool that it’s not redundant.

I haven’t played a Core DGT. Kinda scared to. But man, if it’s head and shoulders better, that would be impressive.

 

[László]

The thing about maple as a tone wood - BTW, I like both RW and maple for different reasons - is that you hear more of the onset of the note attack, but the note decays a bit faster. Often there's an impression of more top end, but less midrange.

RW, on the other hand, has a somewhat slower attack, but sustains longer and is sparkly in a different frequency band.

But there are LOTS of variables: Every piece of wood resonates differently; sometimes it truly pays to play with pickup height, and/or experiment with strings, etc. I certainly wouldn't give up on the guitar if it's a matter of pickup height, strings, or other easily solved factors.

So often we buy online these days - not saying that's what you did, obviously I don't know - but back in the day we'd run the racks, play everything the dealer had, and keep searching for "the one" until we found it. Because even the very same models all sounded different.

Now...that's happening less and less, even though wood being wood, each guitar is still going to sound a bit different.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but it might be worthwhile to try out one of PRS USA Silver Sky models with a maple fretboard, just to see if the guitar gives you more of what you're looking for. There's certainly nothing to lose in just checking them out.

 

[László]

I haven’t played a Core DGT. Kinda scared to. But man, if it’s head and shoulders better, that would be impressive.

I have a Core DGT with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard. It's bright, sparkly, and sounds the business.

I can't quantify how much better it sounds - that's impossible of course - and you pay more for small differences as you move up the ladder, but to me the small differences add up.

It was worth every penny I put into it. But whether it's worth the difference to someone else depends on their ears, hands, brain, etc.

I'd certainly play one just to see. If it's better...well...worse things have happened than someone buying a guitar that appeals to them more!

 

[deathworlder]

You must have missed the part where I said a bought a maple SS and then a RW one.

Yes... yes I did.

I thought you were comparing apples to oranges.

My bad... FWIW, I'm a believer in tone woods

 

[Johnkenn]

The thing about maple as a tone wood - BTW, I like both RW and maple for different reasons - is that you hear more of the onset of the note attack, but the note decays a bit faster. Often there's an impression of more top end, but less midrange.

RW, on the other hand, has a somewhat slower attack, but sustains longer and is sparkly in a different frequency band.

But there are LOTS of variables: Every piece of wood resonates differently; sometimes it truly pays to play with pickup height, and/or experiment with strings, etc. I certainly wouldn't give up on the guitar if it's a matter of pickup height, strings, or other easily solved factors.

So often we buy online these days - not saying that's what you did, obviously I don't know - but back in the day we'd run the racks, play everything the dealer had, and keep searching for "the one" until we found it. Because even the very same models all sounded different.

Now...that's happening less and less, even though wood being wood, each guitar is still going to sound a bit different.

I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, but it might be worthwhile to try out one of PRS USA Silver Sky models with a maple fretboard, just to see if the guitar gives you more of what you're looking for. There's certainly nothing to lose in just checking them out.

Oh it was an impulse buy and was straight out of the box. Dumb. It wasn’t bad by any stretch, just didn’t feel “alive” like this other one did. But I do have another thread about a saddle issue on the RW one. Problem these days is - even in Nashville - there’s usually not a ton of multiples in stock. But I’m sure they had a few of these SE’s…I should’ve played a few.
I’ve played a couple Core SS’s…and yeah - neck feels better - but my immediate reaction is they made the SE line too good.

 

[Johnkenn]

I have a Core DGT with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard. It's bright, sparkly, and sounds the business.

I can't quantify how much better it sounds - that's impossible of course - and you pay more for small differences as you move up the ladder, but to me the small differences add up.

It was worth every penny I put into it. But whether it's worth the difference to someone else depends on their ears, hands, brain, etc.

I'd certainly play one just to see. If it's better...well...worse things have happened than someone buying a guitar that appeals to them more!

I own a pro audio message board - so, this isn’t even my main addiction unfortunately…so I get the “price goes up, differences get smaller” thing. I’ve played a core 594…and yeah, it’s just everything is a notch up, pickups more articulate, less muddy - just more cool. But right now I’m good…but I know it’s coming lol.

 

[László]

I own a pro audio message board - so, this isn’t even my main addiction unfortunately…so I get the “price goes up, differences get smaller” thing.

Hey John, I've been doing music for TV ads and film for 34 years, I'm kinda that pro audio guy as well, though these days I'm mostly 'in the box'.

I'd love to check out your message board, if it's open to the public - got a link?

I’ve played a core 594…and yeah, it’s just everything is a notch up, pickups more articulate, less muddy - just more cool. But right now I’m good…but I know it’s coming lol.

Certain things are inevitable, right?

 

[Johnkenn]

Hey John, I've been doing music for TV ads and film for 34 years, I'm kinda that pro audio guy as well, though these days I'm mostly 'in the box'.

I'd love to check out your message board, if it's open to the public - got a link?



Certain things are inevitable, right?

Sure! I won’t put a link out of respect to this board, but it’s Realgearonline. Just add the .com.

 

[Rod/]

It’s all in the wood of the neck AND the body. Generally all maple necks are brighter and rosewood are warmer but not all the time, as you have come to witness

 

[Maertl513]

@Johnkenn,
I could agree on your observation comparing unplugged (and ignoring different string brands, different weights, different actions), because I do have two editions of the same model: One with a full rosewood neck, one with a mahogany neck + rosewood board.
They sound different unplugged. The mahogany and rosewood combination appears to sound brighter, more mids and highs, whilst the rosewood is balanced.

But plugged: No difference. And why so? Wood isn't magnetic... Even the resonance of the wood doesn't have an impact on the pickups (they vibrate and change the position of the magnetic field, in which the relevant part, the string vibrates), that has been measured by physical lasers and other scientific devices.

And to mess up your opinion I quote Mr. Burrluck testing the 513 RW:
"Undoubtedly, the use of Brazilian Rosewood is crucial for the neck contributes to the sound of the 513. The sounds come defined and clear, with a broader tonal spectrum, whereby neither the highs are shrill and the lows sound dull. The sound is remarkably even, like having a compressor
interposed. This results in an amazing balance across the entire fingerboard away."

and Mr. Rebellius testing the 513 MT:
"Still somehow too dull for me and too broad, although the overtone structure changes interestingly depending on the individual areas of the fingerboard strong different and sometimes very quickly loud singing overtones. Here will clearly the difference between one mahogany and a rosewood neck demonstrated: the latter throws powerfully and the tones come straight ahead universe, some speak in these days of rosewood doping, during a mahogany neck for a much more comfortable climate for development. Santana fans understand what I mean because they are therefore well served. [...] As a chameleon is the 513 capable of their Align sound to the circumstances and many high quality results to achieve a property that is achieved through the use of the mahogany neck is still strengthened; This is how you can get some classic sounds from guitar history reshape better than with the often dominant one Rosewood neck."

And now, tell me what are really the characteristics of wood, when two tester have different adjectives for the same material.

 

[Johnkenn]

@Johnkenn,
I could agree on your observation comparing unplugged (and ignoring different string brands, different weights, different actions), because I do have two editions of the same model: One with a full rosewood neck, one with a mahogany neck + rosewood board.
They sound different unplugged. The mahogany and rosewood combination appears to sound brighter, more mids and highs, whilst the rosewood is balanced.

But plugged: No difference. And why so? Wood isn't magnetic... Even the resonance of the wood doesn't have an impact on the pickups (they vibrate and change the position of the magnetic field, in which the relevant part, the string vibrates), that has been measured by physical lasers and other scientific devices.

And to mess up your opinion I quote Mr. Burrluck testing the 513 RW:
"Undoubtedly, the use of Brazilian Rosewood is crucial for the neck contributes to the sound of the 513. The sounds come defined and clear, with a broader tonal spectrum, whereby neither the highs are shrill and the lows sound dull. The sound is remarkably even, like having a compressor
interposed. This results in an amazing balance across the entire fingerboard away."

and Mr. Rebellius testing the 513 MT:
"Still somehow too dull for me and too broad, although the overtone structure changes interestingly depending on the individual areas of the fingerboard strong different and sometimes very quickly loud singing overtones. Here will clearly the difference between one mahogany and a rosewood neck demonstrated: the latter throws powerfully and the tones come straight ahead universe, some speak in these days of rosewood doping, during a mahogany neck for a much more comfortable climate for development. Santana fans understand what I mean because they are therefore well served. [...] As a chameleon is the 513 capable of their Align sound to the circumstances and many high quality results to achieve a property that is achieved through the use of the mahogany neck is still strengthened; This is how you can get some classic sounds from guitar history reshape better than with the often dominant one Rosewood neck."

And now, tell me what are really the characteristics of wood, when two tester have different adjectives for the same material.

Not sure if you're arguing for or against tonewoods having an impact? I have no idea...but I"m dubious about the wood affecting tone more than a negligible amount. Probably more likely there's a difference in the pickups. But - I could be convinced.

Talking about two models of the same wood - my two DGT SE's...they both sound killer. But the GT just is more dynamic and expressive - and it's a GTI - E serial which is 2022? They didn't release the DGT until 23 - so IDK. Apparently this "new" one I bought is NOS '23.

 

[Glide-bpm]

I will say that my 509 with hog body and neck sounded very much different than my 509 with Swamp Ash body and flamed maple neck!!!

 

[Maertl513]

@Johnkenn, I believe in god - but there are physical laws (magnetism, electromagmetism, non magnetic materials).

The quotation was chosen to emphazise the different attributes of the same material by testers - which likely influence our traded adjectives on 'tone' wood.

To ME wood type doesn't matter for the electrical tone of an electric guitar, because it's non magnetic material (and can't be made magnetic even by the strongest permanent magnet).
The auditive differences are results of minor, but significant changes within the ratio and relation of the relevant metal (string) part within the magnetic field (pickup): string manufacturer, string model, string gauge, string wear, action, pickup height, pickup production tolerances (do they all have the same inductances within the same model?), cable lenghts.

I chose wood for optical or haptical reasons, but not for the purpose of sound expections.
That's the business of amp, cab + speaker and the respective guitar.
But I'm lazy. One amp + one prefered cab and one constant EQ setting for all guitars.

Play the guitar which is soundwise and haptically more cozy to you.

 

[deathworlder]

I have 3 of the same model... SE CE 24 Sandblasted...

They all have their own personality.
Not a night/day difference...but it's there.

I think the way differences in acoustic sound translates through the pickups, has to do with the relationship between fundamental vs overtone... harmonic vs inharmonic

You're telling me, if I take the same pickups/electronics, and stick them in a PRS, Tele, Strat, LP, 335, Rick, etc...same sound?
Is the argument then, inconsistent pickups/electronics?

 

[Johnkenn]

Ideally, it would be nice to have a legitimate two week window on guitar purchases...I mean, no seller wants some a hole like me buying and returning 10 SE's until I find the right one...lol. But sometimes it takes having it and using it for a while before you really know about the guitar. You can clock obvious things…but getting it in your own environment is a must.

 

[Rider1260]

I had 2 Core Silver Skys , 2018 - 2019 , both rosewood boards and they were very different.
I do agree that the Maple and Rosewood boards do sound different and its always been that way not just with Silver Sky , Strats and Teles as well

 

[László]

Sure! I won’t put a link out of respect to this board, but it’s Realgearonline. Just add the .com.

Thanks!