Difference in tone between a PRS with a wraparound tailpiece compared to the same guitar with a trem..

[darkbluemurder]

Slightly off topic: for me the archetypical PRS has the Custom shape, 24 frets, and the trem. With PRS guitars, the trem is beautiful because it actually works.

Other than that, as one poster already said no two guitars are the same since every piece of wood is different. For a true scientific comparison, you would have to change only one variable (in that case the bridge) and hold all other variables (body, neck, tuners, electronics) constant. This means that you would have to convert a trem guitar into a stop-tail guitar or vice versa. This would be a huge effort, result in an irreversibly modded guitar and be of dubious scientific value since the result would only be true for THIS guitar. With another guitar, the results may slightly vary.

Of course if you have a trem guitar where you don't use the trem you can do a "fake hardtail conversion", i.e. deck the trem, put in as many springs as possible and tighten them to max. That would be easily reversible.

I would go about it in a different way and ask myself "do I want/need a trem?", and then pick a guitar which feels and sounds good to you.

 

[Bogner]

Absolutely true! But that begs the question.

Broadly speaking, there are characteristics that certain types share. There are differences between these types in frequency response, resonant peaks, attack of the note, formants, and dozens of other factors that add up to the ability to categorize different types of instruments in certain ways.

I'm sure you'd agree that a Tele doesn't sound like a Strat, in spite of the similarity in their necks, assembly types, etc. The differences are there to hear due to the differences in hardware, body, pick guard vs body mount of the bridge pickup, the pickups themselves, etc.

Granted that two Teles will sound a bit different. But you won't be confusing any of those Teles for a Strat. or a Les Paul. The differences between types and models is greater than the differences between two of the same model.

A Vela doesn't sound like a CU24 or 594.

Dig a little deeper, and you can get to differences in more detail.

Humbuckers and single coils have characteristic sounds. Maple fretboards sound different from rosewood, which sounds different from ebony. Coil splits sound a little different from true single coils or P-90s. Guitars with a longer scale length are a little twangier in the bass. Trem-equipped guitars have a nice ring due to the springs. A solid body sounds different from a hollow body. A thick solid body sounds different from a thinner one. Potted pickups sound different from unpotted, and they're less microphonic. Ceramic pickup magnets sound different from alnico (and the same is true of ceramic magnets in speakers vs alnico).

After a while of owning or playing lots of guitars, characteristics of certain woods are pretty clear. My maple bodied acoustic doesn't sound quite like a rosewood acoustic, and that doesn't sound quite like a mahogany one.

Put those same woods on an electric guitar body and it's still possible to hear how they're different. My 1965 all mahogany SG Special with P-90s, sounds quite different from my 594 with P-90s and a maple top; the woods are different, the body of one is thicker, etc.

So I think it's fair to answer to the OP, yes, trem-equipped guitars sound a bit different from guitars with wrap tailpieces and explain those differences.

So you agree with me that no two guitars are really alike.

Why? Because no two guitars are alike.

Yeah but there are certain baseline aspects of materials you can go from.

Yes, but those baselines differ overall with the two guitars in question/comparison because no two guitars are alike.

So really we are both saying the same thing?

Yes, I just said it with fewer words.

Well, if we put both of our theories together I bet we will really have something.

Yes, no two guitars sound alike.

 

[jak3af3r]

I think material may have more to do with this than construction.

Years ago my dad, a drummer and massive Rush fan, decided he wanted some chimes. Buying a set of chimes was quite expensive so he just bought some bar stock and a few pieces of walnut. He took the stock and turned them on a metal lathe at work, stained the walnut and I remember helping dye the string black (I was probably about 8.)

The interesting thing here is he bought aluminum and brass for his own sound comparison.

The aluminum sets weren't as loud and were more tinkley. Quite bright sounding with a very short decay.

The brass sets were almost the opposite. Still bright-ish but they rang forever and had more of a bell-like quality.

My experience with guitar bridges has been similar. Both my trem PRS have brass blocks and saddles and comparatively, they produce a more bell-like quality that is underlying before the electronics do their filtering.

The aluminum bridges, to my ears, have a little more note separation and more top-end before the pickups do their thing.

 

[László]

So you agree with me that no two guitars are really alike.

Why? Because no two guitars are alike.

Yeah but there are certain baseline aspects of materials you can go from.

Yes, but those baselines differ overall with the two guitars in question/comparison because no two guitars are alike.

So really we are both saying the same thing?

Yes, I just said it with fewer words.

Well, if we put both of our theories together I bet we will really have something.

Yes, no two guitars sound alike.

No, we aren't really saying the same thing at all.

No two guitars sound identical in every respect - on the microscopic level. So what. The differences between two guitars of the same model are substantially smaller than the differences between different models, on the macroscopic level. This is also true of hardware types, pickups and electronics, woods, construction and so on.

It's why Les Pauls sound different from Strats, and the difference is immediately recognizable. Put another way, two Les Pauls sound more alike than a Les Paul and a Strat.

This is why discussions about tone are interesting to lots of players, and dismissive comments like 'No two guitars are alike' are meaningless.

 

[Bogner]

No, we aren't really saying the same thing at all.

No two guitars sound identical in every respect - on the microscopic level. So what. The differences between two guitars of the same model are substantially smaller than the differences between different models, on the macroscopic level. This is also true of hardware types, pickups and electronics, woods, construction and so on.

It's why Les Pauls sound different from Strats, and the difference is immediately recognizable. Put another way, two Les Pauls sound more alike than a Les Paul and a Strat.

This is why discussions about tone are interesting to lots of players, and dismissive comments like 'No two guitars are alike' are meaningless.

Oh, don't get so worked up. Everything is going to be alright. You would be surprised how many people think a specific guitar will always sound like a specific guitar or a specific way. I gave the short winded version and the reality is no two guitars are alike. Many people thought Page was playing a Les Paul when in fact it was a Tele in certain instances. Same with a Marshall amp when it wasn't always a Marshall. We can pick apart things all day if we desire to do so and with eyes closed, nobody knows in many instances. All that being said, yes, trem guitars have less wood, springs and generally a little more top end and upper mid range sparkle so one could say they "COULD" be brighter. Could I find a hard tail guitar to compare with that debunks what I just said? You bet I could and probably from my own collection. It will really come down to the guitar in question and what its natural tonal/sonic palette is and then you stack the player, cables, pickups, pick or fingers, and everything else in the signal chain to get a final answer. Yes, everything matters and everything can be adjusted in that chain to acquire their desired outcome in most cases. As much as I can and do agree with your points I also agree with the simple side to what I said. There are always two sides to the coin in all of this. Above and beyond everything...FIND A GUITAR THAT YOU CONNECT WITH AND LIKE! Does it sound good? Does it feel good in your hands? Is it aesthetically pleasing to you? Is it comfortable to play? Does it inspire me to want to play the guitar more or at all? ETC. If so, buy it. Play it. Be happy. Knobs turn both ways, adjust with ears and not eyes and I bet the player will get a tone they like.

Do we still need to hug this out or are we good?

 

[László]

Oh, don't get so worked up. Everything is going to be alright. You would be surprised how many people think a specific guitar will always sound like a specific guitar or a specific way. I gave the short winded version and the reality is no two guitars are alike. Many people thought Page was playing a Les Paul when in fact it was a Tele in certain instances. Same with a Marshall amp when it wasn't always a Marshall. We can pick apart things all day if we desire to do so and with eyes closed, nobody knows in many instances. All that being said, yes, trem guitars have less wood, springs and generally a little more top end and upper mid range sparkle so one could say they "COULD" be brighter. Could I find a hard tail guitar to compare with that debunks what I just said? You bet I could and probably from my own collection. It will really come down to the guitar in question and what its natural tonal/sonic palette is and then you stack the player, cables, pickups, pick or fingers, and everything else in the signal chain to get a final answer. Yes, everything matters and everything can be adjusted in that chain to acquire their desired outcome in most cases. As much as I can and do agree with your points I also agree with the simple side to what I said. There are always two sides to the coin in all of this. Above and beyond everything...FIND A GUITAR THAT YOU CONNECT WITH AND LIKE! Does it sound good? Does it feel good in your hands? Is it aesthetically pleasing to you? Is it comfortable to play? Does it inspire me to want to play the guitar more or at all? ETC. If so, buy it. Play it. Be happy. Knobs turn both ways, adjust with ears and not eyes and I bet the player will get a tone they like.

Do we still need to hug this out or are we good?

Wasn't upset, I just like to repeat myself...

We're good, but if you wanna hug...

 

[Bogner]

Wasn't upset, I just like to repeat myself...

We're good, but if you wanna hug...

Sure why not? We need more love in the world.

 

[dogrocketp]

The answer is obvious to Sergio and myself. You need them both……..