DGT 15 - Big disapointement...

[ruger9]

And here's a side note drawing all that together. Despite the thread title which I cringe at even bumping, DG might be a great example of someone who is very clear on what and how his signature items are designed to be used. He likes to crank them up. SO, the amp, the chosen speaker and number of speakers, etc. is all based on him cranking that amp up pretty good and THAT is where it sounds best. Every part of that chain was designed with that in mind. Not "how good can this amp sound at 65dB after my wife goes to bed."

He even said openly that he intends to use the new 15 watt amp and 1x12 speaker probably more than his 30 watter, because some clubs just won't let him play loud enough any more to use the 30. For his design, and his tonal goals, a cranked 15 watter is better in many cases than his 30 watter turned down a bit, and he said almost those exact words.

I can hear the difference on his Saxon gigs- and the 30 sounds better.

What DG does at home is keep an old 4x12 mic'ed up in his studio, he plays the DG30 into it, but then runs it through the studio monitors... which is re-amping. It's the best solution for volume lowering applications. That's what the Fryette does, except it then comes out the amp's speaker.

 

[László]

When I went to Experience PRS in 2018 (please let there be one in 2025!) PRS had the amp demo area set up with headphones plugged into some sort of attenuators, so that 10 (or whatever) people could simultaneously try out the array of amps without creating a giant cacophony. Unfortunately, whatever headphone attenuators that were being used sucked the life completely out of the amp tone. I was super disappointed.

I was there in 2015 and they had a similar setup. I think they used Mesa load boxes, not attenuators.

Very few pure attenuators have headphone ports.

 

[WingerRules]

I can hear the difference on his Saxon gigs- and the 30 sounds better.

What DG does at home is keep an old 4x12 mic'd up in his studio, he plays the DG30 into it, but then runs it through the studio monitors... which is re-amping. It's the best solution for volume lowering applications. That's what the Fryette does, except it then comes out the amp's speaker.

I wouldn't debate one tone vs. the other from videos as different speakers/cabs, mics, mic position by 1/8" etc. can affect that. I was just mentioning his own comment that he'd be gigging the 15 watter because the 30 was too loud for many gigs when in the amp/speaker's sweet spot. He's pretty well known to be very picky about his tone and not a BS'er when it comes to it, so I was just saying it must be good enough to satisfy him. And, he could easily attenuate the 30 live, if he wanted too, vs. downsizing the rig. I think he designed this whole thing around his need to play at lower volumes but still get "his" tone.

I'm not discouraging anyone who really wants a 30. I'm sure it's as good as advertised. But, I heard the 15 dialed NOWHERE close to the way he dials it, and it sounded really good and wasn't even turned up loud. And, he added some features that clearly make it more versatile in a live setting. So, not debating, just discussing the virtues of both. I've never played a 30. After what I've heard from the 15 so far, I'd seriously consider at least giving it a full workout to consider purchasing one.

It also got me to thinking about our ongoing "big glass big iron" is better ideal. I have both. I "get" the difference. But, Dr. Z has made TONS of great amps that get gigged regularly and are loved by many, that only have 2 or 4 EL84s and their fans rave about them. They even rave about how loud they are for the watts rating. Roll off some of that power sucking bottom end and you can get a lot of volume out of 15 or 30 watts! And the fans of those type amps say it "works better in a band mix" as well. Different strokes.

 

[ruger9]

I wouldn't debate one tone vs. the other from videos as different speakers/cabs, mics, mic position by 1/8" etc. can affect that. I was just mentioning his own comment that he'd be gigging the 15 watter because the 30 was too loud for many gigs when in the amp/speaker's sweet spot. He's pretty well known to be very picky about his tone and not a BS'er when it comes to it, so I was just saying it must be good enough to satisfy him. And, he could easily attenuate the 30 live, if he wanted too, vs. downsizing the rig. I think he designed this whole thing around his need to play at lower volumes but still get "his" tone.

I'm not discouraging anyone who really wants a 30. I'm sure it's as good as advertised. But, I heard the 15 dialed NOWHERE close to the way he dials it, and it sounded really good and wasn't even turned up loud. And, he added some features that clearly make it more versatile in a live setting. So, not debating, just discussing the virtues of both. I've never played a 30. After what I've heard from the 15 so far, I'd seriously consider at least giving it a full workout to consider purchasing one.

It also got me to thinking about our ongoing "big glass big iron" is better ideal. I have both. I "get" the difference. But, Dr. Z has made TONS of great amps that get gigged regularly and are loved by many, that only have 2 or 4 EL84s and their fans rave about them. They even rave about how loud they are for the watts rating. Roll off some of that power sucking bottom end and you can get a lot of volume out of 15 or 30 watts! And the fans of those type amps say it "works better in a band mix" as well. Different strokes.

Fair enough. To clarify, when I say the DG30 sounds better at the Saxon- it sounds better TO ME. It sounds more like what I have heard out of Grissom for years, TO ME. I can hear the slight lack of headroom and clarity on the DG15, in the Saxon videos and David's own demos. It's subtle, but it's absolutely there. And it's kind of ironic, Grissom is a guy who is ALL ABOUT "subtle"- look how long it took to develop the DGT... lots of nuances that matter to him. He admits there's a subtle difference in the 2 amps as well. Why he doesn't seem to care about that as much as he does in other stuff IDK (I'm sure it's a great amp, and he doesn't want to hamper sales), but if you want what the DG30 does, the DG15 isn't all the way there.

Nothing wrong with compromise- I've just done enough of it over my years to know that if I want A THING, to buy THAT THING. Don't try to save money and get the same thing cheaper, you won't.

 

[BobbyBe]

I noticed that PRS demo'd the 50 and 100 Watt Hendrix amps with a Koch attenuator. I can't imagine them using an inferior device to demo their amps, so that's one I'd consider if I wanted an attenuator.

Les, you mentioned Koch attenuators earlier in the thread.

The koch LB120 has a headphone jack with volume control. It also allows you to pass no signal to the speaker making the room silent if you need that. I don't think it is a reactive load but it sounds great on my all of my amps (prs, fender, mesa). Its DI and cab simulation is pretty good too. $350

I also have a Bugera PS1 but you get what you pay for. For apartment dwellers and cohabitatators, who need extreme low volume, the Bugera goes low but it introduces compression as you dial down the volume. This dials down the touch sensitivity and does not allow for headphone monitoring in a silent room...but if your on a budget they are around $120.

With a DG30 and matching cab set like DG (power section at max with preamp at 1:00), guitar (DGT) volume and tone at 10:

My silent room is 40DB

Bugera-turned down as far as possible but still useful for practice (7:30 clock face) I get 60-70db in the room.

Koch-at its lowest is in the 80-90 db range but has less compression and retains more touch sensitivity than the Bugera at any volume.

Anyway, I like attenuators. They are not for purists but they let the amp do its thing at useful volumes.

PS, I forgot to mention that the DI is useful for cloning amps and pedals onto modelers. I don't have an isolated room or reasonable recording microphones for miking up cabs to clone things. The ability to get a reasonable clone into my modeler is important for silent stage and lightening the rig load.

 

[László]

Les, you mentioned Koch attenuators earlier in the thread.

The koch LB120 has a headphone jack with volume control. It also allows you to pass no signal to the speaker making the room silent if you need that. I don't think it is a reactive load but it sounds great on my all of my amps (prs, fender, mesa). Its DI and cab simulation is pretty good too. $350

I also have a Bugera PS1 but you get what you pay for. For apartment dwellers and cohabitatators, who need extreme low volume, the Bugera goes low but it introduces compression as you dial down the volume. This dials down the touch sensitivity and does not allow for headphone monitoring in a silent room...but if your on a budget they are around $120.

With a DG30 and matching cab set like DG (power section at max with preamp at 1:00), guitar (DGT) volume and tone at 10:

My silent room is 40DB

Bugera-turned down as far as possible but still useful for practice (7:30 clock face) I get 60-70db in the room.

Koch-at its lowest is in the 80-90 db range but has less compression and retains more touch sensitivity than the Bugera at any volume.

Anyway, I like attenuators. They are not for purists but they let the amp do its thing at useful volumes.

PS, I forgot to mention that the DI is useful for cloning amps and pedals onto modelers. I don't have an isolated room or reasonable recording microphones for miking up cabs to clone things. The ability to get a reasonable clone into my modeler is important for silent stage and lightening the rig load.

Great info!

Sounds like a superb product.

 

[WingerRules]

Les, you mentioned Koch attenuators earlier in the thread.

The koch LB120 has a headphone jack with volume control. It also allows you to pass no signal to the speaker making the room silent if you need that. I don't think it is a reactive load but it sounds great on my all of my amps (prs, fender, mesa). Its DI and cab simulation is pretty good too. $350

I also have a Bugera PS1 but you get what you pay for. For apartment dwellers and cohabitatators, who need extreme low volume, the Bugera goes low but it introduces compression as you dial down the volume. This dials down the touch sensitivity and does not allow for headphone monitoring in a silent room...but if your on a budget they are around $120.

With a DG30 and matching cab set like DG (power section at max with preamp at 1:00), guitar (DGT) volume and tone at 10:

My silent room is 40DB

Bugera-turned down as far as possible but still useful for practice (7:30 clock face) I get 60-70db in the room.

Koch-at its lowest is in the 80-90 db range but has less compression and retains more touch sensitivity than the Bugera at any volume.

Anyway, I like attenuators. They are not for purists but they let the amp do its thing at useful volumes.

PS, I forgot to mention that the DI is useful for cloning amps and pedals onto modelers. I don't have an isolated room or reasonable recording microphones for miking up cabs to clone things. The ability to get a reasonable clone into my modeler is important for silent stage and lightening the rig load.

Thanks for the info!

 

[BobbyBe]

Your welcome. Im happy I could contribute something useful.

 

[Butch_Snyder]

I'm glad I saw this thread. I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe IV and it is a great amp. Then I saw the DGT-15. I had a Fender Blues Jr. some years back; so, I'm familiar with 15-watt tube amps. First off, 15 tube watts is like 30 solid state watts. The HRD I have is 40 watts. Hard to do bedroom woodshedding, but I make it work. The DGT-15, is what I would consider my dream amp. I love EL-84 amps. I wanted all kinds of demo videos. I love the demo videos that David Grissom does; but tend to put more stake in the review videos other players do. They seem to demo more from a critical perspective.

I watched a video from the PRS site that was a demo of the amp. The demo was by Bryan Ewald, a product specialist with PRS. I grabbed this screenshot of Mr. Grissom's preferred amp settings and immediately knew that, even though it's 15 watts, to get the "good" tone, it's not going to be bedroom practice volume. The amp settings are listed at about 3:20. All that said, I still want the amp!

 

[andy474x]

I'm glad I saw this thread. I have a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe IV and it is a great amp. Then I saw the DGT-15. I had a Fender Blues Jr. some years back; so, I'm familiar with 15-watt tube amps. First off, 15 tube watts is like 30 solid state watts. The HRD I have is 40 watts. Hard to do bedroom woodshedding, but I make it work. The DGT-15, is what I would consider my dream amp. I love EL-84 amps. I wanted all kinds of demo videos. I love the demo videos that David Grissom does; but tend to put more stake in the review videos other players do. They seem to demo more from a critical perspective.

I watched a video from the PRS site that was a demo of the amp. The demo was by Bryan Ewald, a product specialist with PRS. I grabbed this screenshot of Mr. Grissom's preferred amp settings and immediately knew that, even though it's 15 watts, to get the "good" tone, it's not going to be bedroom practice volume. The amp settings are listed at about 3:20. All that said, I still want the amp!

A few of the PRS amps have great MV's, but the majority do sound significantly better turned up, and I'd say the DGT15 is right up at the top of that list. The PRS amps are gig-volume amps, through and through.

 

[László]

I re-watched some of the DGT amp vids today, since I'm taking a few days off.

While it may not be an exact clone of the DG30 amp, I gotta say, it's a hell of a good sounding amp! And that's really the bottom line.

If I had need of a 15 Watt amp, and didn't have the DG30, I'd be interested in one of these.

I can see why players like them.

Great amps need a little juice to sound their best, even if they sound good at so-called bedroom volumes. It's just one of the things that makes tube amps special devices. But heck, there are all kinds of tools out there to deal with volume coming from most amps, so that wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[WingerRules]

I re-watched some of the DGT amp vids today, since I'm taking a few days off.

While it may not be an exact clone of the DG30 amp, I gotta say, it's a hell of a good sounding amp! And that's really the bottom line.

If I had need of a 15 Watt amp, and didn't have the DG30, I'd be interested in one of these.

I can see why players like them.

Great amps need a little juice to sound their best, even if they sound good at so-called bedroom volumes. It's just one of the things that makes tube amps special devices. But heck, there are all kinds of tools out there to deal with volume coming from most amps, so that wouldn't bother me at all.

I agree. I haven’t played a 30 but have heard multiple demos. I haven’t heard multiple demos of the 15 as well, but I heard one in person and while I didn’t get to try out any of it’s tonal range, the tones I did here were stellar!

 

[Butch_Snyder]

I found this video and thought it was a nice departure from some of the others I had watched. A nice and somewhat different perspective; more "real world" rather than like Mr. Grissom's (unless you're gigging, which I plan to do).

 

[László]

I agree. I haven’t played a 30 but have heard multiple demos. I haven’t heard multiple demos of the 15 as well, but I heard one in person and while I didn’t get to try out any of it’s tonal range, the tones I did here were stellar!

If you ever happen to come to Michigan - I realize that you can't deal with the "M" FOUR obvious reasons - come give mine a play. I think you'd really dig it, even if it isn't the kind of thing you'd necessarily need for your own style of play.

In fact, come visit during football season and we can plan to catch a non-conference game together at the Big House. It's really a lot of fun, and not what you might expect.

I should mention that one of the best times I ever had was seeing a show my son played in Columbus a few years ago. The kids lined up to see his show were a lot of fun. It's a nice college town. Other than kidding around, I can't buy into the Looney-Tunes aspects of a college football rivalry.

 

[WingerRules]

If you ever happen to come to Michigan - I realize that you can't deal with the "M" FOUR obvious reasons - come give mine a play. I think you'd really dig it, even if it isn't the kind of thing you'd necessarily need for your own style of play.

In fact, come visit during football season and we can plan to catch a non-conference game together at the Big House. It's really a lot of fun, and not what you might expect.

I should mention that one of the best times I ever had was seeing a show my son played in Columbus a few years ago. The kids lined up to see his show were a lot of fun. It's a nice college town. Other than kidding around, I can't buy into the Looney-Tunes aspects of a college football rivalry.

I don’t know if it’s safe for me there! Lol

I’d be up for all of that!

 

[László]

I don’t know if it’s safe for me there! Lol

Aw man, it's totally safe!

OSU and Michigan have much more in common than you'd think - not much different than you find with all Big Ten schools. There's more mutual respect than people give themselves credit for.

I’d be up for all of that!

It'd be fun, right?

A2 has its own vibe, as all the Big Ten college towns do - it's upscale, has lots of great restaurants, and the stadium is a serious trip and a half. You see only the top of it from the street, and it doesn't blow you away from the outside, but then you walk in...and go 'Holy sh!t'!

The band is always good, too.

Most 'great college town' reviews rank Madison and Ann Arbor highly, though now with ULCA/Westwood in the mix, it's awfully hard to make that comparison; Westwood is serious every-kid-drives-a-Porsche-spends-$100-at-lunch business. Kinda different!

 

[Greywolf]

I may have just picked one up . I was browzing this morning on the verb as usual and found a good $ on a mint used head/ cab.
I got a quick offer .. but didn't realize right away it was from another shop ..and head only .. the caffiene finally kicked in and I told them cancel ..

I get a message back ... they think they can match it and throw in shipping .. and it's NEW .. hmm if it's a yes then I've got it. Essentially a Free cab .. good enough for me .

I love my DG30 and Blue Sierra but they are just too big for me to gig with . This should be perfect for the Cafe' needs.

 

[László]

I wouldn't debate one tone vs. the other from videos as different speakers/cabs, mics, mic position by 1/8" etc. can affect that. I was just mentioning his own comment that he'd be gigging the 15 watter because the 30 was too loud for many gigs when in the amp/speaker's sweet spot. He's pretty well known to be very picky about his tone and not a BS'er when it comes to it, so I was just saying it must be good enough to satisfy him. And, he could easily attenuate the 30 live, if he wanted too, vs. downsizing the rig.

I agree, you can't tell everything just from a clip. But you can tell some things. There are characteristic tones the 30 Watt has that are pretty obvious no matter how it's dialed in.

Having miked mine a zillion ways, it'd be hard not to hear those characteristics in any recording that wasn't completely messed up.

And now for an interruption from our alter-ego:

"Excellent use of the Past Pluperfect in that last sentence, Laz."

"Thank you! I blame 6 years of training in Latin."

Those characteristics are simply different in the imported amp.

'Different' doesn't mean 'better' or "worse'. If the DGT amp sounds good in and of itself, that's sufficient reason to own it.

I think he designed this whole thing around his need to play at lower volumes but still get "his" tone.

I doubt the amp was designed around anything other than the idea of PRS offering a vintage-sounding amp with Grissom's name on it at a much more reasonable price than the Maryland amp.

If Grissom and PRS had wanted to create a no-holds-barred 15 Watt amp - as they did with the DG30 - I have no doubt the first choice would have been to build it in the US, hand wire it, etc.

All they'd have to do is pull a couple of output tubes and redesign a few parts.

That's why it's being made in China instead of Maryland. Wouldn't surprise me if it's been a big hit for PRS. It's a better price match with the strong-selling DGT SE that way, too.

None of this analysis means that the amp doesn't sound good, and none of it means that Grissom doesn't, shouldn't, or wouldn't use it himself.

The fact that Doug Sewell was able to come up with something Grissom was good with, at a very attractive price point, is remarkable.

 

[El Fenix]

For attenuators..I like my Captor X. The IRs via headphones are a neat deal too.

 

[Greywolf]

well , they backed out .. no worries the one I was first looking at is there