gush
Where is that speedo pic
That's good to know.
DGT 15 - Big disapointement...
- Thread starter ma6699ma
- Start date
I think Andy474x installed a set in his. You might ask, he's certainly knowledgeable. I think Grissom did a video with the DGT running 7189s as well.
The DG30 runs the 7189s very hot; so much so that to prevent tube failure, the amp has two cooling fans that can't be switched off, and the owner's 'manual' info sheet says to leave at least a foot of space behind the amp so the fans can move enough air through it.
So even if you install 7189s in the DGT15, you're not running the tubes like the DG30 does. Whether that's a good or bad thing I have no idea!
andy474x
Knows the Drill
^^^ Fixed!
Yes, I did put the 7189's in the DGT15 - it made a small improvement in reducing the amount of compression when the amp is really wound up and allowing the notes to punch through more. The standard EL84's seemed to distort more at similar settings. Whether you'd see a noticeable difference in clean headroom, in a live play situation, I'd say probably not enough to matter, it's more about slightly cleaning up the whole range of tones. Still very much the same amp with them in.
It's one of those "every little thing adds up" details. The 7189's aren't very expensive, and they should last a long time, so to anyone interested, my opinion is it's worth it.
ruger9
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Thanks Andy. Sounds like the old rule remains: a small amp will never sound like a big amp. It's just physics. To get THAT Grissom tone, you'd need THAT Grissom amp (the DG30). The DG15 is close, but it can never be the DG30. Much like a Princeton can never be a Super Reverb.
Yup. It's more of a 'family resemblance' thing than an 'identical twins' thing.
Fantasies of a fun night with twins are not part of this equation.
Um...well...not sure at all about that 'fix'!!
Rod/
Vibrato & String Bender
That is not a “family friendly “ amp. David live plays very loud, no matter what he’s running through.. Get some great overdrive pedals for home playing. You’ll be fine
This has been a very informative post for me, thank you all.
More and more I’m realizing the thing most non-professional guitar players need isn’t a low wattage tube amp (the good ones are all loud anyway), it’s a fryette power station, two notes captor, or an ox box, and good monitors.
I sold all by tube amps, except a champ, in a moment of weakness (read: to fund the purchase of a guitar) a year or two back because my wife just never fit along with the volume. She’s just sensitive to noise, and there’s no other way to put it, but loves to hear me play and be in the room. I was out of the loop and didn’t know attenuators were an option. Now I just gotta go about buying back the ones I miss. Anyone got any leads on 80s Soldanos floating about at a discount?
I think there are some other options out there. I haven’t gotten my hands on one, but Carr’s stuff is extremely intriguing in the low volume space. I’ve been really bitten by the early Marshall bug lately and both the Mercury and Bel-ray seem to have a bit of that vibe.
Laney’s studio series also seems like something that might work for some of us that can’t get the most out of the DG Amps. Side note: I almost snagged a DG30 and matching cab for around $2k last summer and boy would that have been a disaster for my use case.
More and more I’m realizing the thing most non-professional guitar players need isn’t a low wattage tube amp (the good ones are all loud anyway), it’s a fryette power station, two notes captor, or an ox box, and good monitors.
I sold all by tube amps, except a champ, in a moment of weakness (read: to fund the purchase of a guitar) a year or two back because my wife just never fit along with the volume. She’s just sensitive to noise, and there’s no other way to put it, but loves to hear me play and be in the room. I was out of the loop and didn’t know attenuators were an option. Now I just gotta go about buying back the ones I miss. Anyone got any leads on 80s Soldanos floating about at a discount?
I think there are some other options out there. I haven’t gotten my hands on one, but Carr’s stuff is extremely intriguing in the low volume space. I’ve been really bitten by the early Marshall bug lately and both the Mercury and Bel-ray seem to have a bit of that vibe.
Laney’s studio series also seems like something that might work for some of us that can’t get the most out of the DG Amps. Side note: I almost snagged a DG30 and matching cab for around $2k last summer and boy would that have been a disaster for my use case.
ruger9
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I have often considered dropping the considerable money on a Fryette Power Station. I'ver tried a bunch of other attenuators over the years, but all were lacking- a compromise. The Fryette seems to be the most popular for this application (lowering volume only: it's not designed for direct recording with cab sims like the OxBox is), because it's actually a re-amper; it's got it's own tubes. It doesn't just cut signal, it takes the signal, lowers it, then puts it through a power amp back to your speaker. In effect, a very expensive tube-driven master volume circuit... AFTER the power tubes in your own amp, so you're getting that interaction.
I've also seriously considered one of the Carr Mercury V amps- maybe if one comes up for a good price...
The other amp I have (I'm going to sell it tho) that has a really good built-in attenuator and is GREAT for home use, is the Cornell Romany 12. It's like a tweed deluxe with tighter bass and reverb, and a great built-in attenuator.
DISTORT6
NJ Devil
ruger9
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No, I don't need IRs. I just need a really good attenuator. I'm just playing at home, by myself, not recording, and I'd like to get the amp up into it's sweet spot. Plus, if I had a Fryette PS2 I could finally justify overspending on a DG30
I noticed that PRS demo'd the 50 and 100 Watt Hendrix amps with a Koch attenuator. I can't imagine them using an inferior device to demo their amps, so that's one I'd consider if I wanted an attenuator.No, I don't need IRs. I just need a really good attenuator. I'm just playing at home, by myself, not recording, and I'd like to get the amp up into it's sweet spot. Plus, if I had a Fryette PS2 I could finally justify overspending on a DG30
shinksma
What? I get a title?
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The thing with guitar amps is that, in my experience, no matter how good your amp tone is, or the model you use in your Kemper, etc, low volume never sounds as good as high volume. There's something in the way the air compresses in front of the speaker (or inside the cab), or the room responds to the sonic waves, or "something" that just doesn't happen at "bedroom" volumes. So when I play at bedroom volumes, I don't try to chase that "oomph".
There is nothing as satisfying as plugging into, and cranking, my DG30, HXDA, or Archon. Even my Sweet 16 sounds way better at high master volume.
And the DG30 certainly has a low-end I don't get from anything else.
On the topic of cabs, I have a couple of 2x12s (100W Archon head, DG 30 head), and a 1x12 cab for the Sweet 16, and the HXDA is a combo 1x12 with a 1x12 ext cab. They all sound great in how they are applied. I've tried a couple of times to snag a 4x10 or 4x12, but never succeeded. The one thing I have noticed (in my experience) about 4x12 or 4x10 cabs is that they are very directional compared to 2x12s or 1x12s.
I really like my Yamaha THR 30ii as a highly-portable modeling amp, and it is very suitable for bedroom or "in front of TV noodling", and even band practice when we're mostly unplugged (the other acoustic instruments). I also picked up a Positive Grid Spark GO for even more portability in a very small form factor. Those are the solutions that work for me for low-volume situations.
There is nothing as satisfying as plugging into, and cranking, my DG30, HXDA, or Archon. Even my Sweet 16 sounds way better at high master volume.
And the DG30 certainly has a low-end I don't get from anything else.
On the topic of cabs, I have a couple of 2x12s (100W Archon head, DG 30 head), and a 1x12 cab for the Sweet 16, and the HXDA is a combo 1x12 with a 1x12 ext cab. They all sound great in how they are applied. I've tried a couple of times to snag a 4x10 or 4x12, but never succeeded. The one thing I have noticed (in my experience) about 4x12 or 4x10 cabs is that they are very directional compared to 2x12s or 1x12s.
I really like my Yamaha THR 30ii as a highly-portable modeling amp, and it is very suitable for bedroom or "in front of TV noodling", and even band practice when we're mostly unplugged (the other acoustic instruments). I also picked up a Positive Grid Spark GO for even more portability in a very small form factor. Those are the solutions that work for me for low-volume situations.
shinksma
What? I get a title?
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When I went to Experience PRS in 2018 (please let there be one in 2025!) PRS had the amp demo area set up with headphones plugged into some sort of attenuators, so that 10 (or whatever) people could simultaneously try out the array of amps without creating a giant cacophony. Unfortunately, whatever headphone attenuators that were being used sucked the life completely out of the amp tone. I was super disappointed.
WingerRules
Julie who?
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Me too, but they don't.
WingerRules
Julie who?
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Here is something that every guitar player should try at least once. Take Julie Bowen and Sofia Vergara to a deserted island. Then... wait, that's not the topic I was asked to speak on today.
Not that everyone shouldn't try that.
Ok, take a flat power amp (SS PA amp, Power Station, etc) and run first a white noise signal for test one and a full range music track for test 2. Start with very low volume. Then "bedroom volume." Then turn it up a bit. Then more and more until it's loud.
This test allows you to clearly here a number of things. First, how the frequency response changes with increase volume (F-M Curve). This one is our ears/brain changing, not the gear. Second, how that with some volume, your speaker cone starts to contribute it's own breakup and, how it's tonal balance seems to change with volume. Most guitar speakers breakup and how they do really affects the sound and the louder it is, the more it affects it. We all know this, right? But have you ever determined exactly where it starts to break up (what volume level) exactly what it does to the tone, and how/if you re-dial the amp when it does? And while we're at it, same for the FM curve... you need to adjust bass and treble as volume goes up even if the speaker didn't change. Third, we hear how your cab starts to contribute (assuming closed back cab). The damping provided by a closed back cab will at some level be heard as part of the "thump" we associate with guitar cabs. Do this with white noise then a full range music track. You'll discover the details of what all happens when we turn up a speaker/cab
So when we say "crank the amp to it's sweet spot" we can never discount the contribution of the speaker(s) and cab as they too have a sweet spot. If you're lucky, they are in the same dB range, but many times they are not. Obviously, this relationship can be manipulated. Don't want cone breakup to "muddy up" your magic tone? Use a higher powered speaker known for no cone breakup. Want it at a lower volume? Use lower wattage speakers with smaller magnets (usually), less cone edge damping, less stiff cone, etc.
After this test, run a second one where you run those same to test signals through your guitar amp and into that cab. Now you can see where the amp starts to contribute it's thing to the final tone. And, if there is not a synergistic match, you can see how to address that. As Paul always says, everything affects everything. Even my favorite speaker so far, is not my favorite with every amp or cab. I have been openly not a big V30 fan because the spike is ice picky with MOST amps. But in a big room, up loud, the spike is "cut" not ice pick, so I often mix one other speaker in a 2x12 with a V30 so I get a bit of that but much better sound in a smaller room.
All this said to make one point. "Crank the amp to it's sweet spot" is very often someone hitting the volume level at which their cab sounds best. While the response of many amps changes with volume (especially if it has less pre-amp gain and you're pushing the PI stage into OD, like a JCM800 for example) I think we're many times hitting the volume the cab sounds great, as much as hitting the amps sweet spot. Yes, this varies with literally every amp-speaker/cab combination, but seemingly EVERYONE says "the amps sweet spot" when it's often the speaker/cab's sweet spot, or could be the amps sweet spot, or if your really lucky, both.
IMO, YMMV, consult your physician for erections lasting over 4 hours.
WingerRules
Julie who?
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And here's a side note drawing all that together. Despite the thread title which I cringe at even bumping, DG might be a great example of someone who is very clear on what and how his signature items are designed to be used. He likes to crank them up. SO, the amp, the chosen speaker and number of speakers, etc. is all based on him cranking that amp up pretty good and THAT is where it sounds best. Every part of that chain was designed with that in mind. Not "how good can this amp sound at 65dB after my wife goes to bed."
He even said openly that he intends to use the new 15 watt amp and 1x12 speaker probably more than his 30 watter, because some clubs just won't let him play loud enough any more to use the 30. For his design, and his tonal goals, a cranked 15 watter is better in many cases than his 30 watter turned down a bit, and he said almost those exact words.
He even said openly that he intends to use the new 15 watt amp and 1x12 speaker probably more than his 30 watter, because some clubs just won't let him play loud enough any more to use the 30. For his design, and his tonal goals, a cranked 15 watter is better in many cases than his 30 watter turned down a bit, and he said almost those exact words.
ruger9
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Absolutely, on the volume thing. Even the best attenautor won't be "the same" because it's still lower volume. That's something that can't be remedied. That will always be a compromise.
But there are different levels of quality of attenuators, I don't want to compromise any more than is absolutely necessary.
