DGT 15 - Big disapointement...

[gush]

I've never owned a 4x12. Actually read a few posts at The Gear Forum (not page) where guys were talking about going all 4x12 and 1x12 and not liking 2x12s at all. I know I have some big sounding 2x's (Mesa 2x12 vertical recto is often compared favorably with 4x, and the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab) but I've never heard guys completely blow off 2x12s as. I often use 2 of my 1x12's together, and have even used 2 2x12s together. I'm down to 3 1x12s and they are the big Avatar Cube, Mesa Thiele and a custom made open back. I like running 2 of them, but am not ready to throw out the 2x's yet. The Zbest is easily my best sounding cab in fact.

I have a 1960a cab that I might load with the c back 65s out of my 2x12 and use my two spare c back 65s.

Very curious how the c backs would sound in a1960a cab?

I put a quad of 12L-35s in one of my 1960A cabs and they don't sound too bad. This is one 4x12 that needs to have the bass turned to at least noon.

 

[WingerRules]

I'm not a fan of the 2x12 cabs I have. Definitely like the 1x12 better than either 2x12.

One 2x12 has celestion creamback 65s and the other has weber silver bell alnicos

That's interesting. My 2x's immediately sounded bigger to me, after I started with 1x12 combos and all 1x12 speaker cabs. I instantly preferred them over all my 1x's

I have 3 good sounding 1x's now, but still prefer the 2x's over them, except for wanting to roll some speakers in the 2x's

 

[gush]

Totally get that. I have a mix of 2x and 1x, but already see one common item. Lower the bass. I run the bass around 9:00 in most circumstances and run bass gain about noon, while treble gain is dimed. The rest is tuned to the cab/speaker I'm using at the time and of course the guitar.

I don’t run either gain dimed. Depending on what I'm trying to achieve I'll be between 10:00-2:00 and most times master will be 1:00-3-00.

 

[László]

That's interesting. My 2x's immediately sounded bigger to me, after I started with 1x12 combos and all 1x12 speaker cabs. I instantly preferred them over all my 1x's

I have 3 good sounding 1x's now, but still prefer the 2x's over them, except for wanting to roll some speakers in the 2x's

I got my first 2x12 cab in 1968, and that's been my jam ever since. I like the swirl and complexity of 2 speakers as they move around in a speaker cab.

Definitely a tone thing for me, not a volume thing.

Can you even believe that someone as old as me is still alive? I sure can't fathom it, and I'm that guy who is. Still alive, I mean.

1968 was a year that took place in the late middle part of the last century. You can read about it in history books, but I was there the whole time and can tell ya stuff about it should you have questions or concerns.

You can email me for info at iforgotmorethanirememberbutstillrememberabunchastuffdiseastablishmentarianism@wtfcares.com.
Regardless of one's interest in the historical ramifications of 1968, it was a good year for speaker cabs.

I'd go with 4 speakers from time to time if I wasn't such a feeble old dude who can't move things like that around any more.

"You can't move 2x12s around any more, either."

"Maybe not even 1x12s, right?"

"What are you going to do with all this stuff in your studio? Just leave it when they're ready to wheel you into the old folks' home, which will be any minute?"

"I probably won't even remember I have it, so I won't miss it."

 

[GGJJGG]

That's interesting. My 2x's immediately sounded bigger to me, after I started with 1x12 combos and all 1x12 speaker cabs. I instantly preferred them over all my 1x's

I have 3 good sounding 1x's now, but still prefer the 2x's over them, except for wanting to roll some speakers in the 2x's

My Matchless 2x12 cab works great with the HC-30. The HiTone sounds great with the 4x12 (can’t say enough about that amp; totally under the radar great). I keep thinking I just need a 4x12 for the 50 watt HXDA but then I keep thinking about thinning the herd for a lower watt amp that I would play more.

Les, what are the best early concerts you saw? Grande Ballroom memories?

 

[gush]

That's interesting. My 2x's immediately sounded bigger to me, after I started with 1x12 combos and all 1x12 speaker cabs. I instantly preferred them over all my 1x's

I have 3 good sounding 1x's now, but still prefer the 2x's over them, except for wanting to roll some speakers in the 2x's

I should also mention that green backs were always my favorite speakers but I loaded a 1982b cab with UK gbacks and I don't like it as much.

Obviously speakers breakup quicker than Others but with way I run my amp, it just doesn't sound as good.

These greenbacks have been in a 1960a cab then moved to my 1982b cab. They do sound better in the 1982b but not as good as my mesa or 1960a g12-65 and G12T-75s

I put uk v30s in a 6505 cab. The cab is very tight sounding and if I were to record low tuned tracks this is the cab I'd use.

Biggest disappointment has been loading celestion alnico golds in a 1960a cab. I had high hopes for this setup and it was expensive to do but it's just blah to me. really bummed.

I have a bunch of free time so one thing I want to do is play music through this cab over a long period of time in hopes that they need a longer breakin period.

 

[WingerRules]

I don’t run either gain dimed. Depending on what I'm trying to achieve I'll be between 10:00-2:00 and most times master will be 1:00-3-00.

Yeah, I can’t do that master up above 10:00 with the gain that high, or it gets LOUD! LOL.

 

[WingerRules]

I got my first 2x12 cab in 1968, and that's been my jam ever since. I like the swirl and complexity of 2 speakers as they move around in a speaker cab.

Definitely a tone thing for me, not a volume thing.

Yes, that’s exactly how I feel. The 4X people say they have more of that swirl and complexity, and thus the magic, while the 1x’s have a tight, more focused sound. Several guys even said they always use two 1x12 cabs, but prefer that over a 2x….

I’ve considered a 4x12 for years. Heck, I’ve always wanted one, just don’t think I need one and you can also play 2 2x12s if you want even bigger. I think I’ll just be happy to nail down a couple speaker pairs that sound great in the PRS and Mesa cabs. The Z absolutely KILLS it right now.

 

[WingerRules]

I should also mention that green backs were always my favorite speakers but I loaded a 1982b cab with UK gbacks and I don't like it as much.

Obviously speakers breakup quicker than Others but with way I run my amp, it just doesn't sound as good.

These greenbacks have been in a 1960a cab then moved to my 1982b cab. They do sound better in the 1982b but not as good as my mesa or 1960a g12-65 and G12T-75s

I put uk v30s in a 6505 cab. The cab is very tight sounding and if I were to record low tuned tracks this is the cab I'd use.

Biggest disappointment has been loading celestion alnico golds in a 1960a cab. I had high hopes for this setup and it was expensive to do but it's just blah to me. really bummed.

I have a bunch of free time so one thing I want to do is play music through this cab over a long period of time in hopes that they need a longer breakin period.

Interesting. Everything I learned about speakers in my audiophile days applies to guitar speakers and cabs as well, but even more so and by a wide margin. For one thing, in that world, they have pretty consistent speakers, so they should all be pretty close to each other in sound. In the guitar world, it’s very common to hear things like “even in a 4x12 I mic one speaker because it sounds better than the others” or things like that. It’s common to hear a guy bought two new speakers from a dealer that are identical, and don’t sound the same.

So you take that, and then apply all the normal speaker and cab rules and get one 1960 with greenbacks sounds great and one doesn’t sound good. Or one that has one great speaker, 2 good ones and one dud. You take the way even a speaker you like sounds different in every cab you put it in because the size and dimensions of the cab, cab wood, bracing and ALL these other things influence the tone that speaker puts out. Sealed, ported or open back… all create a whole different acoustic environment, but also a different amount of damping of the cone. Like Paul says, EVERYTHING affects everything.

So, I also totally get the bummer it is to shell out for new speakers in hope that it’s the perfect setup you’ve been wanting, get them installed and it not be good.

 

[László]

Yes, that’s exactly how I feel. The 4X people say they have more of that swirl and complexity, and thus the magic,

The best sounding speaker cab I ever coupled an amp with was a vintage Marshall slant-top 4x12 cab with old speakers at a studio I booked for a project. It looked beat to sh!t. I had a Two-Rock Onyx Sig v2 at the time. It was probably 15 years ago or so.

It was magic.

I was using an oversized Bogner 2x12 at the time at my own place, and it was a great sounding cab, but the amp really did sound better to me with the old 4x12. Whether that had to do with its age and how well broken-in the speakers were after many years of abuse, or whether the studio's room had something to do with the great sound, I can't say for sure. Probably a nice confluence of factors.

 

[Bogner]

The Only 2X12 Cab I Have Really Liked Is The Bogner Oversized. The Rest Are Meh For Me And What I Like/Do. 4x12's All The Way For Me. I Will Also Say That You Will Never Get The Sound Of A 4x12 By Using 4 1X12's Or 2 2X12's. It Is Simply Not The Same.

 

[László]

The Only 2X12 Cab I Have Really Liked Is The Bogner Oversized. The Rest Are Meh For Me And What I Like/Do. 4x12's All The Way For Me. I Will Also Say That You Will Never Get The Sound Of A 4x12 By Using 4 1X12's Or 2 2X12's. It Is Simply Not The Same.

You're right, only a 4x12 sounds like it does. Same is true of a 2x12. I think the speakers need to be vibrating in the same cabinet to get the full-on multiple speaker effect.

I've used 2x12s pretty much all my playing life, so it's what I got used to, and it became 'my sound'. No doubt, however, that a 4x12 has a certain sound and impact that's unique. Heck, so does a 1x10!

Whatever works for a player is great, regardless of my own preferences.

 

[GGJJGG]

You're right, only a 4x12 sounds like it does. Same is true of a 2x12. I think the speakers need to be vibrating in the same cabinet to get the full-on multiple speaker effect.

I've used 2x12s pretty much all my playing life, so it's what I got used to, and it became 'my sound'. No doubt, however, that a 4x12 has a certain sound and impact that's unique. Heck, so does a 1x10!

Whatever works for a player is great, regardless of my own preferences.

Not to take this in a different direction, but all the same speakers or a mixed set?

 

[László]

Not to take this in a different direction, but all the same speakers or a mixed set?

Either type can work well in the right context. There's something to be said for going with the cab and speakers designed to go with the amp, as well. I've had good luck with both approaches doing that.

 

[JTB]

This conversation is producing informative content, considering it started as a complaint about an amp.

 

[ruger9]

IDK who here has one, but I'd love to see a report on how the amp reacts with the Russian 7189s in it, like the DG30 uses... I wonder if they might help to increase the headroom and clarity/articulation a bit...

 

[gush]

I've never owned a 4x12. Actually read a few posts at The Gear Forum (not page) where guys were talking about going all 4x12 and 1x12 and not liking 2x12s at all. I know I have some big sounding 2x's (Mesa 2x12 vertical recto is often compared favorably with 4x, and the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab) but I've never heard guys completely blow off 2x12s as. I often use 2 of my 1x12's together, and have even used 2 2x12s together. I'm down to 3 1x12s and they are the big Avatar Cube, Mesa Thiele and a custom made open back. I like running 2 of them, but am not ready to throw out the 2x's yet. The Zbest is easily my best sounding cab in fact.

I picked up this 1x12 because it was priced really well, it was significantly different from cabs I already have and I've never played a celestion V type.

I'm pleasantly surprised how much I like it considering how much I dislike my 2x12 and like my 4x12s.

I had a custom 50 head with prs 1x12 V30 and I absolutely HATED the cab no matter what amp I ran it with.

I even put a celestion alnico cream in it and still hated it.

My tonescape is much different these days so I often wonder if I'd like that prs 1x12 now? I have consistently disliked V30s but its possible having the cream in it would have been a different story??

 

[WingerRules]

The V type has been described as a cross between a V 30 and a green back. I have not tried one, but this could be a good thing… the V30 spike is gone, but it would have tighter deeper base than a green back. In theory, that could be a great combination. Some people describe it as bland, but perhaps those people are just missing the spike. I don’t like the spike as it can be ice picky in too many situations in my opinion.

 

[Bogner]

The V type has been described as a cross between a V 30 and a green back. I have not tried one, but this could be a good thing… the V30 spike is gone, but it would have tighter deeper base than a green back. In theory, that could be a great combination. Some people describe it as bland, but perhaps those people are just missing the spike. I don’t like the spike as it can be ice picky in too many situations in my opinion.

A Nice, Balanced, Neutral (For Lack Of A Better Term) Speaker With No Spike Is The G12K100. Very Well Balanced Across The Tonal Spectrum. If A Person Is Seeking A Speaker That Doesn't Color Or Hype Certain Sonic Aspects Of Your Sound This Speaker Is A Great Choice. I Like it On All Tone Types And In Front Or Rear Loaded Cabs.

 

[gush]

The V type has been described as a cross between a V 30 and a green back. I have not tried one, but this could be a good thing… the V30 spike is gone, but it would have tighter deeper base than a green back. In theory, that could be a great combination. Some people describe it as bland, but perhaps those people are just missing the spike. I don’t like the spike as it can be ice picky in too many situations in my opinion.

To me the v30 is a speaker version of HFS pickup.

Too harsh for my taste but excellent choice for low tuned guitar.