DGT 15 - Big disapointement...

It’s the nature of signature products… they suit the artist and get his sound the same way he gets it. It likely sounds like David when you play it set like David sets it. If you’re not buying it to do that, you can really only be disappointed that it didn’t do what you tried to adapt it to, and not that it didn’t perform as advertised.

The only amp option that can sound cranked when it’s not is a modeler. I used Fractal, others here use Kemper, Fender’s Tone Master Pro is impressive as well. But, truthfully, nothing sounds like a cranked tube amp but a cranked tube amp when you’re standing in front of it. The volume has much to do with that. There’s something in the feel and “convergence of all factors” that still makes that a unique experience.
 
RickP said:
If you’re not buying it to do that, you can really only be disappointed that it didn’t do what you tried to adapt it to, and not that it didn’t perform as advertised.
Click to expand...
Exactly this! I don't want to bust on a new guy, but creating an account just to say you're disappointed in an amp that has multiple demos proving it sounds GREAT, and busting on the amp for not having lots of pre-amp distortion and doesn't sound great at bedroom volumes... again, not busing on a new guy but a bit of research would have showed that this is not an amp designed to sound it's best at low volumes, and it's not designed with a lot of pre-amp gain.
 
JTB said:
I agree. Great clean tones, workable drive tones. I have not been able to find tones that I like in the Hi gain mode. It seems to be a little too much sizzle for me. Have you any suggestions on dialing in the Hi mode?
Click to expand...
Take this post with a grain of salt - I'm not usually a high gain player. Most of the time I live in 'edge of breakup' world. So the following are things you might want to try, not prescriptions that will fit every ailment.

Also, you probably do 99% of this stuff, and if so, forgive the repetition of what you already know.

I'd guess you aren't using the Mesa 4x10 with Creambacks, very few have them so far as they were recently intro'd. It's a different beast than the Black Shadow 90s that usually come with Fillmore combos and cabs. So there's that difference to consider. They sound different for sure (I have a 212 Lone Star combo with a pair of the Black Shadows, so I can get that sound when needed, as I have an amp and cab switcher I like to use that handles 8 heads and 4 cabs).

Part of this is frequency-dependent; it's pretty easy to tame the high end using the controls on the amp and on the guitar. I'll get to that in a bit.

As a side note, however, I feel the Chinese tubes Mesa usually installs stock give you a brittle top end. That's why I replaced mine with NOS American-made '70s GE and RCA tubes in both of my Mesa amps (the other one's a Lone Star 100). These tubes sound 'right' to me in an amp that's loosely based on Fender classics, and they're noticeably smoother on top.

I'm not sure if the brittle texture translates as 'sizzly', but to me they're two sides of the same coin.

However, let's assume you don't want to change the tubes right now.

Dialing in an amp is like mixing - it's all about the balances and trade-offs. I rebalance the controls on my amps every single time I change guitars, but I'm in my own studio where there's plenty of time for that, even with clients around.

For more harried sessions where folks are impatient, I use a transparent analog EQ pedal made by Pettyjohn that I pre-set for a couple of guitars I plan to use. However, I also have some EQ presets on my Eventide H9s, just in case.

I also turn down the treble on the guitar, maybe to around 7-ish, and lower the guitar volume control to reduce brightness a little. If I need to hear more volume or gain, I'll turn it up on the amp.

On a sizzly/brittle amp, I bring the bass up a little to balance out the highs and saturate the low end a bit. This tends to psychoacoustically lower the sizzle in the high end because it helps to balance things out and warm up the tone. Then I turn down the treble some, lower the presence quite a bit, and finally see what's going on with the midrange.

You'd think sizzle is all about the high end, but the way turnover points work on amps, the settings of one control affect frequencies the other control also works with at certain frequencies, and you just have to experiment with all of the controls. A midrange peak can poke out your ear, and it doesn't help with brightness to turn up the mids.

Unfortunately for predictability, a lot of the choices I'd make depend on the speakers/cabs, the pickups and the guitar. I don't set the Fillmore up one way and then leave it be. Every tune, every set of effects, every guitar, and every creative need seems to be different, so I try not to carve any of my choices in stone.

Using the higher gain mode with my own amp and guitars, the first thing I try on the amp is to scoop out a bit of the midrange, lower the treble to taste, and turn the presence control down.

You get to a certain point on an amp where the gain knob makes things fizzier, and some settings are too much. I dial in less gain with the higher gain mode than I would with the clean or crunch modes. At first, that probably sounds counterintuitive, but if you think about what's happening when you change modes, it really isn't.

I always use the tone and volume knobs on my guitars to sculpt my sound while playing, too.

As I said, none of this probably comes as a real surprise, and you're already probably doing it all. In that case, this answer is a whole lot of hot air and blah, blah blah, but I hope it was at least entertaining! 🤣
 
László said:
Take this post with a grain of salt - I'm not usually a high gain player. Most of the time I live in 'edge of breakup' world. So the following are things you might want to try, not prescriptions that will fit every ailment.

Also, you probably do 99% of this stuff, and if so, forgive the repetition of what you already know.

I'd guess you aren't using the Mesa 4x10 with Creambacks, very few have them so far as they were recently intro'd. It's a different beast than the Black Shadow 90s that usually come with Fillmore combos and cabs. So there's that difference to consider. They sound different for sure (I have a 212 Lone Star combo with a pair of the Black Shadows, so I can get that sound when needed, as I have an amp and cab switcher I like to use that handles 8 heads and 4 cabs).

Part of this is frequency-dependent; it's pretty easy to tame the high end using the controls on the amp and on the guitar. I'll get to that in a bit.

As a side note, however, I feel the Chinese tubes Mesa usually installs stock give you a brittle top end. That's why I replaced mine with NOS American-made '70s GE and RCA tubes in both of my Mesa amps (the other one's a Lone Star 100). These tubes sound 'right' to me in an amp that's loosely based on Fender classics, and they're noticeably smoother on top.

I'm not sure if the brittle texture translates as 'sizzly', but to me they're two sides of the same coin.

However, let's assume you don't want to change the tubes right now.

Dialing in an amp is like mixing - it's all about the balances and trade-offs. I rebalance the controls on my amps every single time I change guitars, but I'm in my own studio where there's plenty of time for that, even with clients around.

For more harried sessions where folks are impatient, I use a transparent analog EQ pedal made by Pettyjohn that I pre-set for a couple of guitars I plan to use. However, I also have some EQ presets on my Eventide H9s, just in case.

I also turn down the treble on the guitar, maybe to around 7-ish, and lower the guitar volume control to reduce brightness a little. If I need to hear more volume or gain, I'll turn it up on the amp.

On a sizzly/brittle amp, I bring the bass up a little to balance out the highs and saturate the low end a bit. This tends to psychoacoustically lower the sizzle in the high end because it helps to balance things out and warm up the tone. Then I turn down the treble some, lower the presence quite a bit, and finally see what's going on with the midrange.

You'd think sizzle is all about the high end, but the way turnover points work on amps, the settings of one control affect frequencies the other control also works with at certain frequencies, and you just have to experiment with all of the controls. A midrange peak can poke out your ear, and it doesn't help with brightness to turn up the mids.

Unfortunately for predictability, a lot of the choices I'd make depend on the speakers/cabs, the pickups and the guitar. I don't set the Fillmore up one way and then leave it be. Every tune, every set of effects, every guitar, and every creative need seems to be different, so I try not to carve any of my choices in stone.

Using the higher gain mode with my own amp and guitars, the first thing I try on the amp is to scoop out a bit of the midrange, lower the treble to taste, and turn the presence control down.

You get to a certain point on an amp where the gain knob makes things fizzier, and some settings are too much. I dial in less gain with the higher gain mode than I would with the clean or crunch modes. At first, that probably sounds counterintuitive, but if you think about what's happening when you change modes, it really isn't.

I always use the tone and volume knobs on my guitars to sculpt my sound while playing, too.

As I said, none of this probably comes as a real surprise, and you're already probably doing it all. In that case, this answer is a whole lot of hot air and blah, blah blah, but I hope it was at least entertaining! 🤣
Click to expand...
Been a long time since I've been here, and isn't it fitting that the 1st post I read is from you, Les. I always enjoy reading your detailed suggestions. For those of us bedroom guitar heros, I doubt if any would consider your post as boring, hot air or blah, blah blah.

You know what would be really cool? Make a video of you performing the above tunings with various guitars and amps. Got a camera? Guess you could use your phone, but for a quality guy like yourself - I think you'd prefer a camera :)
 
László said:
Take this post with a grain of salt - I'm not usually a high gain player. Most of the time I live in 'edge of breakup' world. So the following are things you might want to try, not prescriptions that will fit every ailment.

Also, you probably do 99% of this stuff, and if so, forgive the repetition of what you already know.

I'd guess you aren't using the Mesa 4x10 with Creambacks, very few have them so far as they were recently intro'd. It's a different beast than the Black Shadow 90s that usually come with Fillmore combos and cabs. So there's that difference to consider. They sound different for sure (I have a 212 Lone Star combo with a pair of the Black Shadows, so I can get that sound when needed, as I have an amp and cab switcher I like to use that handles 8 heads and 4 cabs).

Part of this is frequency-dependent; it's pretty easy to tame the high end using the controls on the amp and on the guitar. I'll get to that in a bit.

As a side note, however, I feel the Chinese tubes Mesa usually installs stock give you a brittle top end. That's why I replaced mine with NOS American-made '70s GE and RCA tubes in both of my Mesa amps (the other one's a Lone Star 100). These tubes sound 'right' to me in an amp that's loosely based on Fender classics, and they're noticeably smoother on top.

I'm not sure if the brittle texture translates as 'sizzly', but to me they're two sides of the same coin.

However, let's assume you don't want to change the tubes right now.

Dialing in an amp is like mixing - it's all about the balances and trade-offs. I rebalance the controls on my amps every single time I change guitars, but I'm in my own studio where there's plenty of time for that, even with clients around.

For more harried sessions where folks are impatient, I use a transparent analog EQ pedal made by Pettyjohn that I pre-set for a couple of guitars I plan to use. However, I also have some EQ presets on my Eventide H9s, just in case.

I also turn down the treble on the guitar, maybe to around 7-ish, and lower the guitar volume control to reduce brightness a little. If I need to hear more volume or gain, I'll turn it up on the amp.

On a sizzly/brittle amp, I bring the bass up a little to balance out the highs and saturate the low end a bit. This tends to psychoacoustically lower the sizzle in the high end because it helps to balance things out and warm up the tone. Then I turn down the treble some, lower the presence quite a bit, and finally see what's going on with the midrange.

You'd think sizzle is all about the high end, but the way turnover points work on amps, the settings of one control affect frequencies the other control also works with at certain frequencies, and you just have to experiment with all of the controls. A midrange peak can poke out your ear, and it doesn't help with brightness to turn up the mids.

Unfortunately for predictability, a lot of the choices I'd make depend on the speakers/cabs, the pickups and the guitar. I don't set the Fillmore up one way and then leave it be. Every tune, every set of effects, every guitar, and every creative need seems to be different, so I try not to carve any of my choices in stone.

Using the higher gain mode with my own amp and guitars, the first thing I try on the amp is to scoop out a bit of the midrange, lower the treble to taste, and turn the presence control down.

You get to a certain point on an amp where the gain knob makes things fizzier, and some settings are too much. I dial in less gain with the higher gain mode than I would with the clean or crunch modes. At first, that probably sounds counterintuitive, but if you think about what's happening when you change modes, it really isn't.

I always use the tone and volume knobs on my guitars to sculpt my sound while playing, too.

As I said, none of this probably comes as a real surprise, and you're already probably doing it all. In that case, this answer is a whole lot of hot air and blah, blah blah, but I hope it was at least entertaining! 🤣
Click to expand...
This is a comprehensive response. Thanks for taking the time to explain. There are several things you've talked about that I have not considered or tried. I'm always learning. This gives me good options for dialing in this amp. So far, it's been quite rewarding. I appreciate this amp more each time I use it. Thanks for your post.
 
JTB said:
This is a comprehensive response. Thanks for taking the time to explain. There are several things you've talked about that I have not considered or tried. I'm always learning. This gives me good options for dialing in this amp. So far, it's been quite rewarding. I appreciate this amp more each time I use it. Thanks for your post.
Click to expand...
The Fillmore is one of two favorites among quite a few Mesas I've owned. It's a phenomenal amp.

I recently wanted to downsize and thought about selling it - some of the DG30's tones go in a similar direction, and some of the HXDA's tones do, too. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. The amp is that good.
 
DreamTheaterRules said:
Nice, and since we covered how you like mostly straight amp tones, how are you running yours? I'll try to get a pic of my current settings to post up tonight.
Click to expand...
Well.....it really depends on which cab I'm using.

This is going to sound kind of silly but I have nine 4x12 cabs, two 2x12 cabs and one 1x12.

They are all different and of the 4x12 cabs six are marshall but with different speakers. One mesa roadking 4x12 which I REALLY like and a custom built 4x12 eminence speakers that came in a live in flite case.

With most of my 4x12s I run bass on 2 the rest depends on the cab.

I picked up a custom built paisley 1x12 that has celestion V type speaker. It is an oversized 1x12 and I like it a lot.
 
gush said:
Well.....it really depends on which cab I'm using.
Click to expand...
Totally get that. I have a mix of 2x and 1x, but already see one common item. Lower the bass. I run the bass around 9:00 in most circumstances and run bass gain about noon, while treble gain is dimed. The rest is tuned to the cab/speaker I'm using at the time and of course the guitar.
 
gush said:
TBH......I have always been a 4x12 guy but I actually like this 1x12 a lot. Obviously with the 1x12 I run the bass at noon
Click to expand...
I've never owned a 4x12. Actually read a few posts at The Gear Forum (not page) where guys were talking about going all 4x12 and 1x12 and not liking 2x12s at all. I know I have some big sounding 2x's (Mesa 2x12 vertical recto is often compared favorably with 4x, and the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab) but I've never heard guys completely blow off 2x12s as. I often use 2 of my 1x12's together, and have even used 2 2x12s together. I'm down to 3 1x12s and they are the big Avatar Cube, Mesa Thiele and a custom made open back. I like running 2 of them, but am not ready to throw out the 2x's yet. The Zbest is easily my best sounding cab in fact.
 
DreamTheaterRules said:
I've never owned a 4x12. Actually read a few posts at The Gear Forum (not page) where guys were talking about going all 4x12 and 1x12 and not liking 2x12s at all. I know I have some big sounding 2x's (Mesa 2x12 vertical recto is often compared favorably with 4x, and the Zbest is basically a 2x Thiele cab) but I've never heard guys completely blow off 2x12s as. I often use 2 of my 1x12's together, and have even used 2 2x12s together. I'm down to 3 1x12s and they are the big Avatar Cube, Mesa Thiele and a custom made open back. I like running 2 of them, but am not ready to throw out the 2x's yet. The Zbest is easily my best sounding cab in fact.
Click to expand...
I'm not a fan of the 2x12 cabs I have. Definitely like the 1x12 better than either 2x12.

One 2x12 has celestion creamback 65s and the other has weber silver bell alnicos
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Jimmy
Practice Amps and Master Volume Control
2
Replies
24
Views
578
aamefford
aamefford
S
Dgt15 noise issues
Replies
8
Views
512
László
László
andy474x
NAD - I'll tell you what DGT stands for!
Replies
18
Views
961
GGJJGG
G
Stephen J.
PRS “30” Surprise
Replies
3
Views
144
László
László
C
DGT selector relocation
Replies
2
Views
183
Rider1260
Rider1260
Back
Top