DG-50 and HX/DA. Should I get both ?

[Maximum Guitarage]

Hey all first time long time.

Like many of you who have gone before me and is yet to come , I finally bought a PRS DGT which led me to the DG-30-50 line of amps to even the man himself, David Grissom ( I emailed him last night asking similar questions) Seems like a genuine fan of music and the craft to get things just right.

I understand the DG-50 is a myth and a legend for most. I have an opportunity to get the DG-50 and HX/DA second hand both for $3500 out the door. . Now my question is typical, should I get both even though there would be overlap as each amp are EL 34 based amps with the HX/DA being 60's, 70's vintage Plexi and the DG-50 is between being vintage marshall, Hiwatt and can sound like American Fender if fine dialed in. I understand the DG-30 is between AC30, Tweed, and can achieve Vintage Marshall tones better with a OD Marshall in the box pedal. Each tone can be achieved by pushing the amp into each camp with settings.

I have come to learn a few things, for me it is really about ground coverage with fewer gear.

1. I need a vintage Marshall Plexi amp done deal HX/DA. - not into the HDRX I don't want to chase Hendrix's tone I will never have hands like Hendrix nor David Grissom for that matter. I am stuck with Busy Jimi hands (Me).

2. I need an amp that breathes with holding onto notes, that are articulate. An amp that can give you feels, you know what I am talking about ... hairs on arms go up and that chill down spine when you play. I want the touch dynamics and understand it is important to have an amp that can get to different places just lowering the volume of your guitar or playing with an aggressive pick attack, or putting in a boost pedal in front, an amp that does this in stages while letting your amp do the talking and your fingers do the walking. I feel it is essential for every player to master their signature playing style and sound and work off ab already tried and true platform, then make it your own. That is why I feel the DG50 or DG30 is a must. Side note, someone that owns a DG-50 mentioned they would keep the DG50 over the HXDA because it can get squishy like a Fender and the HXDA " won't do that thing ". So I am curious if the DG-50 can handle the HX/DA territory if dialed in properly.

So am I on the right path here or should I make a U-turn and get the HX/DA and give the DG-30 a head turn?

 

[RickP]

I have two 50 HXDAs, and I’d tell anyone who doesn’t have one to jump in… it’s a special amp. I’d love to add a DG30 or 50, as well, but don’t have one so I can’t help you with the comparison. @LSchefman has both (the DG30, though) and can cover some differences between them. I’ll be curious to hear from DG50 owners answering your query!

 

[Mark Ray]

The answer is ALWAYS, yes.

 

[Tucson Thump]

They are different beasts. I would buy both.

I also have an HXDA 50 head and a 30 combo. My blackface, brownface and tweed itch is scratched by my Fender amps.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

I have two 50 HXDAs, and I’d tell anyone who doesn’t have one to jump in… it’s a special amp. I’d love to add a DG30 or 50, as well, but don’t have one so I can’t help you with the comparison. @LSchefman has both (the DG30, though) and can cover some differences between them. I’ll be curious to hear from DG50 owners answering your query!

Do you use two HX/DA in a wet /dry setup ? Or are they slightly different models like the 25th anniversary? That is ok there is always room for more gear! Thank you for the direction.

I will be jumping in that deep end with the HX/DA from the adult diving board.

I too am very curious to hear about what DG-50 specific owners will say.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

They are different beasts. I would buy both.

I also have an HXDA 50 head and a 30 combo. My blackface, brownface and tweed itch is scratched by my Fender amps.

Hrmm good points. I do not have any fender itches to scratch. Came close, Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, Blues Jr. All returned because I bought a Nueral DSP Quad Core and was waiting for my Nueral Quad Cortex to arrive. In the mean time I got a Boss Katana Artist as a stop gap. It took me 4 months to get the Boss Tone Studio to work with my laptop and Katana amp that when I finely got it to work I did not want to use it any more haha . I kind of made up my mind that digital may not be for me.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

The answer is ALWAYS, yes.

 

[László]

As Rick mentioned, I've had both the HXDA and DG30 since they were each released. I love them, they're different. But I know very little about the DG50; I've never played through one.

The 30 combines Grissom's favorite vintage amps; there's a bit of Vox, though there isn't that 'crushed glass' AC30 thing; there's a Hiwatt tone stack; there's a bunch of Tweed. The amp sounds very much like Grissom's "How It Feels To Fly" album, so I'd think he cut a lot of the tracks with the 30.

I'm not sure I'd call the DG30 an 'open, breathy' amp, though I realize that verbal descriptions of sounds can go all over the place. I'd say the DG30 is its own beast, a very powerful midrange-centric tone that doesn't get muddy in the bass.

When I think of an open, breathy amp, I think Two-Rock clean channel. But since I haven't got any experience with the DG50, I can't say a darn thing about whether you'd have overlap with both an HXDA and a DG50.

Digital hasn't worked for me, either. It's great if you like gadgets, I guess.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

LSchefman, I really appreciate your knowledge behind these amps and guidance here! Thank You! I am sure you will get asked these very same questions for time and memorial until PRS re-release the DG-50 and does two things 1. properly demonstrates the amp 2. Properly promote this amp. I had to ask an AMP Engineer to go over the differences of the schematics on paper regarding build between these amps as well as map out the circuitry to get an idea how tonally different they are...smh

By Breathy, pardon me I mean an amp that breaths, something that is articulate with the notes and harmonics of the amp that is allowed to ring out or play out, do it's thing until we are ready to move to the next phrasing. I am not into the broken glass texture of the AC30, bought and returned. Yes you can square that around with some knob twists. Also not getting muddied by so much gain is an important factor. I have come a long way as a player. Story time for another day, maybe there is an existing thread or I will start one out regarding the players journey. What I know now is high gain low response amps can blanket a lot of things.

Ok, I appreciate the honesty. I will wait back from my AMP engineer and other folks who own the DG-50 and HX/DA. Thank you again for the differences on the DG-30. This much I know...new amp or new amps day soon

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

Yeah those gadgets and gizmos, different strokes for different folks. I will probably hold onto it just do see if someone has profiled the J-Mod 100

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

LSchefman this is crazy. Same scenario back in 2015...just saw your thread you did about wanting the DG50 because you have or had a Dallas and was hungry for a louder amp such as the DG50. No materials then , that 2 minute clip at Martin guitar 7 years ago where David is afraid to point the amp at the crowd and puts the speaker to the floor and the amp upside down. Same non existent materials now or videos and everyone is just wondering and asking about the myth and the legendary DG50. I guess you never got the DG50 as tbe HX/DA and DG30 fits your needs.

The 2014 Namm show presentation of the DG30 and and the DG50 was a joke. They did a great job explaining the DG30 but failed regarding the DG50. David said they didn't have enough time to explain or show the DG50 and was asking if anyone else needed the booh ? This is frustrating back in 2015 and today ...I am starting to feel David and Doug lost conference in the DG50. Which makes me gun shy. Maybe they thought it was too loud as David calls the DG30 the friendly amp that saves your ears.

Part of me wants to just get it and make it my own, other part of me feels if they did not have confidence in this amp neither should I.

 

[Boogie]

Take my input with a grain of salt…

Step back a solid generation in David/Paul/Doug’s pursuit of DG’s ideal amp. They were touting the Super Dallas and the new HXDA mods on the 25th Anniversary amp. DG said in a session at Exp, “until they surpass the Super Dallas, this is my amp”. He liked it so much, he used it on several songs on Way Down Deep (Skimming the Surface, in particular). Spoke one on one with DG about my challenges and how he approached to respolve similar issues. Then I heard him play in a small room and big stage with both amps (at volume…wow!) and I was convinced.
The original video I show has since been taken down that showed HXDAAnd SuperD power chords.

The second one is probably the HXDA but he sets his amps so similarly, only a few SuperD nerds know it’s not the SuperD

The DG50 is rumored to be the SuperD replacement. Big, multi-brand voicing (Super Reverb, HiWatt, Plexi) and LOUD. Power stage is completely different. Where the SuperD shares the HXDA’s EL34 Cinemag repro of the EJ/Fillmore amps, the DG50 is a new design. Lots of similarities, but different.

IMO, to realize the true potential of the SuperD, it must be loud. My master was usually at 3:00 and volume at 10:00. Could never follow his suggestion on max and noon…just too much for my venues. Paul demos just how loud that is…

I would love time to compare and contrast the DG50 with the Super Dallas. But since both are virtually unobtanium, that prospect seems unlikely.

 

[László]

Part of me wants to just get it and make it my own, other part of me feels if they did not have confidence in this amp neither should I.

It's not a matter of confidence.

It's more a matter of PRS keeping stuff that sells best in the lineup, and discontinuing what doesn't. People seem to want/buy lower power amps these days. Paul Smith says something to the effect of, "If you buy 'em, we'll keep making 'em, if not we won't."

The PRS site used to have a downloadable sheet on the DG30 and 50 that explains the differences between the two amps. It may still be there.

Notably, the 50 and 30 differ in whether the master volume is post-phase inverter, or pre-phase inverter. With the 30's design, there's lots of interaction between the setting of the master volume and the tone and gain controls. The 50 is more the typical master volume, where there's less interactivity between all the controls.

At first, I thought the DG30 was a bit tricky to set up for that reason, but after a while it became second nature. The 50 would, of course, be less tricky. I don't mind, either way, once you learn the tricks, you're set.

The reason I didn't get a 50 in addition to my 30 was pretty simple: I was getting all spendy on guitars instead of amps when it was being made! By the time I was ready to get one, they were gone. And I'm not a used amp buyer. So that was that.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

It's more a matter of PRS keeping stuff that sells best in the lineup, and discontinuing what doesn't. People seem to want/buy lower power amps these days. Paul Smith says something to the effect of, "If you buy 'em, we'll keep making 'em, if not we won't."

Exactly, and IMO, Paul’s “mistake” (which isn’t a mistake at all, and was in fact a design goal, but in the grand scheme it is probably a big part about what kept them from selling better…) is that these were designed as GIG amps, and made to sound their best turned up loud. Most people who open them up, say they sound fantastic. Johnny Bedroom playing at 65dB says they don’t sound as good as his Line 6 Spider.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

Guys I understand business. I am a business man, much like all of you we vote with our wallets. I also know if you do not promote something properly it will not sell.

Let us be honest, the demos of the DG50 are non existent and laughable by the limit of the clips, lack of materials. Lack of promotion. PRS and the camp failed. If these are to be game changing amps then people should know the key differences between the HX/DA, Dallas, DG50 etc. You can't buy something without knowing what it sounds like or does and the way we are left in the dark back in 2014 Namm talking about the new launch of both these amps, 2015 and 2021 reflects that. The fact that I have to email the creator of these amps asking questions reflects the issues at hand. Even if it is to be a Giging larger venue amp. Then promote it that way, put it in your materials. I am sure there would have been a market for this amp. You can always get an attenuator or Ox Box. They are doing that now with the HDRX 50 & 100 as their is no master volume. They have it right there on their advertising and marketing materials to pair the HDRX amps with the Kosh Load Box II.

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

It's not a matter of confidence.

It's more a matter of PRS keeping stuff that sells best in the lineup, and discontinuing what doesn't. People seem to want/buy lower power amps these days. Paul Smith says something to the effect of, "If you buy 'em, we'll keep making 'em, if not we won't."

The PRS site used to have a downloadable sheet on the DG30 and 50 that explains the differences between the two amps. It may still be there.

Notably, the 50 and 30 differ in whether the master volume is post-phase inverter, or pre-phase inverter. With the 30's design, there's lots of interaction between the setting of the master volume and the tone and gain controls. The 50 is more the typical master volume, where there's less interactivity between all the controls.

At first, I thought the DG30 was a bit tricky to set up for that reason, but after a while it became second nature. The 50 would, of course, be less tricky. I don't mind, either way, once you learn the tricks, you're set.

The reason I didn't get a 50 in addition to my 30 was pretty simple: I was getting all spendy on guitars instead of amps when it was being made! By the time I was ready to get one, they were gone. And I'm not a used amp buyer. So that was that.

Today could be your lucky day to right that 6 year wrong, they have a brand new DG50 2018 on reverb

 

[Maximum Guitarage]

Take my input with a grain of salt…

Step back a solid generation in David/Paul/Doug’s pursuit of DG’s ideal amp. They were touting the Super Dallas and the new HXDA mods on the 25th Anniversary amp. DG said in a session at Exp, “until they surpass the Super Dallas, this is my amp”. He liked it so much, he used it on several songs on Way Down Deep (Skimming the Surface, in particular). Spoke one on one with DG about my challenges and how he approached to respolve similar issues. Then I heard him play in a small room and big stage with both amps (at volume…wow!) and I was convinced.
The original video I show has since been taken down that showed HXDAAnd SuperD power chords.

The second one is probably the HXDA but he sets his amps so similarly, only a few SuperD nerds know it’s not the SuperD

The DG50 is rumored to be the SuperD replacement. Big, multi-brand voicing (Super Reverb, HiWatt, Plexi) and LOUD. Power stage is completely different. Where the SuperD shares the HXDA’s EL34 Cinemag repro of the EJ/Fillmore amps, the DG50 is a new design. Lots of similarities, but different.

IMO, to realize the true potential of the SuperD, it must be loud. My master was usually at 3:00 and volume at 10:00. Could never follow his suggestion on max and noon…just too much for my venues. Paul demos just how loud that is…

I would love time to compare and contrast the DG50 with the Super Dallas. But since both are virtually unobtanium, that prospect seems unlikely.

So if the DG-50 is suppose to the the end all be all to the Super Dallas and the super Dallas was what came before as building blocks for all things going forward such as the DG50 then come out and say it and promote it this way .

They do this with the HDRX model. Stating that the HXDA is the building blocks for what the HDRX is today. Very clear on the strategy here.

Per PRS
"...continuation of PRS’s popular HXDA amplifiers, PRS HDRX amps feature a refined control layout and a newly-documented “Authentic Hendrix” circuit "

 

[László]

Today could be your lucky day to right that 6 year wrong, they have a brand new DG50 2018 on reverb

I'm posting this elsewhere, but I thought you might find it interesting to check out the amp tones. I recorded it before Covid, and just finished remixing it.

It's a song I wrote/played using the HXDA for the dirty stuff and DG30 for the cleaner guitar that you hear in spots. The vocalist is the wonderful Liz Larin. Lyrics by David Barrett (One Shining Moment).

There's an acoustic track using the PRS Tonare Grand. It's barely audible, but...

There are no dirt pedals on this. Just the amps, a little delay, a wah in the solo. That's it.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/waves-of-blue-22

 

[Tucson Thump]

So if the DG-50 is suppose to the the end all be all to the Super Dallas and the super Dallas was what came before as building blocks for all things going forward such as the DG50 then come out and say it and promote it this way .

They do this with the HDRX model. Stating that the HXDA is the building blocks for what the HDRX is today. Very clear on the strategy here.

Per PRS
"...continuation of PRS’s popular HXDA amplifiers, PRS HDRX amps feature a refined control layout and a newly-documented “Authentic Hendrix” circuit "

They may mention that it is a continuation of the theme but having used my HXDA and having listened to the HDRX I would say that the HXDA is far more flexible for me in creating a variety of Marshall tones out of one amp. YMMV as what you are looking for may be different.

 

[bodia]

I'm posting this elsewhere, but I thought you might find it interesting to check out the amp tones. I recorded it before Covid, and just finished remixing it.

It's a song I wrote/played using the HXDA for the dirty stuff and DG30 for the cleaner guitar that you hear in spots. The vocalist is the wonderful Liz Larin. Lyrics by David Barrett (One Shining Moment).

There's an acoustic track using the PRS Tonare Grand. It's barely audible, but...

There are no dirt pedals on this. Just the amps, a little delay, a wah in the solo. That's it.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/waves-of-blue-22

Good stuff, Les!