Definitive Guide to PRS Amps

[Chester]

Seems like the right spot for this - I was looking at the Archon as a result of a newbie “which amp thread” I’d started. Is it correct that the Archon was produced for a few years as an assembled in USA amp, then stopped. The new ones (2020 or 2021?) are now designed in the USA, produced in Indonesia? At least the 50 watt head that I zoomed in on a photo of noted this on the back. I don’t see this as an issue, merely curious, and I thought others might be as well.

Yes indeed - hence the more accessible price point. PRS were very clear about origin in their promo vids at launch. Everything I've heard about them in Europe so far has been good.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

Seems like the right spot for this - I was looking at the Archon as a result of a newbie “which amp thread” I’d started. Is it correct that the Archon was produced for a few years as an assembled in USA amp, then stopped. The new ones (2020 or 2021?) are now designed in the USA, produced in Indonesia? At least the 50 watt head that I zoomed in on a photo of noted this on the back. I don’t see this as an issue, merely curious, and I thought others might be as well.

I highly recommend buying a used USA archon.

I'm sure the Indonesia ones are great, but tone per dollar the used Archons are a bargain.

Just note that old Archons (2014 and older) have a noisy effects loop. If you can solder it's really easy to fix. Check the stickied thread for more info about that.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

The problem is that every single Dumble sounds different. This is not a criticism, it's because he voiced each amp differently to the needs of whoever he built it for. So the question becomes, which Dumble tone is a good one?

Oh I know. My hope is that Tremonti has one that sounds just like Tags 183, which means, just like the Louis Electric Cobra, because that things sounds INCREDIBLE!

 

[aamefford]

I highly recommend buying a used USA archon.

I'm sure the Indonesia ones are great, but tone per dollar the used Archons are a bargain.

Just note that old Archons (2014 and older) have a noisy effects loop. If you can solder it's really easy to fix. Check the stickied thread for more info about that.

Do the older USA versions sound better? They seem to cost more than the newer ones. I suspect the older ones will retain value just on scarcity and USA made cachet. More so if they sound better.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

Do the older USA versions sound better? They seem to cost more than the newer ones. I suspect the older ones will retain value just on scarcity and USA made cachet. More so if they sound better.

I haven't played any of the new ones to compare.

Used 25W Archons can be had for $700. I got my 100W head for $1100. 50W versions are somewhere in the middle. That should be cheaper than the new ones.

There's a good video where Dave Friedman talks about PCB vs hand wired. High quality PCB makes a high quality amp (better than handwired if one is being honest, but that's also a matter of taste). But low quality PCB makes for an amp that will eventually fail and need repair. I don't know what the new Archons are made of, but the old handwired ones are reliable, durable, tone monsters.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

The problem is that every single Dumble sounds different. This is not a criticism, it's because he voiced each amp differently to the needs of whoever he built it for. So the question becomes, which Dumble tone is a good one?

I had a number of Two-Rocks that had terrific tones in that direction, and they were great amps. My favorites of the ones I had were the Onyxes that were kind of a blend of Dumble with a hint of Marshall. Great sounding amps, but even my various iterations of TRs had their own specific tone flavors. I had a more Dumblesque Custom Reverb Signature, v2, but the Onyx was more my thing.

Tag, who was a TR player at the time as well, thought I was insane, because, not as Dumble.

"Tag was right, you are insane, but it's got nothing to do with what amps you play."

"STFU."

For me, if it's a low to mid gain channel that Tremonti signed off on, I'll probably love it. Heck, as far as I know, Marshall super lead, fender bassman, and dumbles are similar amps with different part values.

I know I don't like my Boss katana, and that I love my archon, but beyond that I'm just not that sophisticated. Most good tones will float my boat.

 

[László]

Oh I know. My hope is that Tremonti has one that sounds just like Tags 183, which means, just like the Louis Electric Cobra, because that things sounds INCREDIBLE!

It does sound pretty darn nice, I agree.

The Two-Rock Custom Reverb Artist v2 I had (that was factory-loaded with NOS tubes) had a very similar Dumble-based sound. I might be able to tell them apart back-to-back in the room, but the demos of the Cobra are similar enough that I'm not sure I could tell via a clip. Still, it's been a good 7 years since my last T-R, so maybe, who knows.

My one observation is the the "D" part of the MDT amps didn't truly have the Dumble sound happening, so it'll be interesting to see what comes out of all this.

Why not buy a Cobra if you're flipping over it? It'd probably be well worth the investment. It's an amp I'd certainly look at if I wanted that sound, though I really liked what Bill Krinard was up to at Two-Rock, and I hear he's consulting with them on new designs again. So I might take another look at their amps if I want to add to my rig.

For me, if it's a low to mid gain channel that Tremonti signed off on, I'll probably love it. Heck, as far as I know, Marshall super lead, fender bassman, and dumbles are similar amps with different part values..

The Dumble has a cascading gain structure, and the Bassman and Marshall don't. There are more than part values distinguishing it from the Bassman (mine was a '67, bought new in 1968) or the Marshalls. They're different amps, with different circuits. All three do different things. And all are worthy amps, as far as I'm concerned.

However, as always, the devil is in the details.

The unique thing about a Dumble sound, apart from its cascading gain, is that it compresses certain frequencies more than others. That's what gives them what Tag calls that 'straining' sound, without losing the high end, or overdosing on the low mids, as one might with most highly compressed amps. If you have a multi band compressor, where you can set the compression levels of different frequency bands, you can get a sense of what I'm talking about.

Listen to a Dumble (or clone), and then listen to a Mesa, which is also a cascading gain amp with what I'd call a compressed sound.

They're very different. The Dumble is more mid-centric, has more clarity in the highs than a Mesa gain channel. and less girth/ mud in the bass.

This is not a knock on Mesas; I love Mesas, and have two of them. They're simply different from Dumbles. So talking about part values and circuit differences...well...what's the point? If they sound different, that's all that matters.

Nonetheless, I completely agree with your point that if an amp sounds good, it IS good!

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

It does sound pretty darn nice, I agree.

The Two-Rock Custom Reverb Artist v2 I had (that was factory-loaded with NOS tubes) had a very similar Dumble-based sound. I might be able to tell them apart back-to-back in the room, but the demos of the Cobra are similar enough that I'm not sure I could tell via a clip. Still, it's been a good 7 years since my last T-R, so maybe, who knows.

My one observation is the the "D" part of the MDT amps didn't truly have the Dumble sound happening, so it'll be interesting to see what comes out of all this.

Why not buy a Cobra if you're flipping over it? It'd probably be well worth the investment. It's an amp I'd certainly look at if I wanted that sound, though I really liked what Bill Krinard was up to at Two-Rock, and I hear he's consulting with them on new designs again. So I might take another look at their amps if I want to add to my rig.



The Dumble has a cascading gain structure, and the Bassman and Marshall don't. There are more than part values distinguishing it from the Bassman (mine was a '67, bought new in 1968) or the Marshalls. They're different amps, with different circuits. All three do different things. And all are worthy amps, as far as I'm concerned.

However, as always, the devil is in the details.

The unique thing about a Dumble sound, apart from its cascading gain, is that it compresses certain frequencies more than others. That's what gives them what Tag calls that 'straining' sound, without losing the high end, or overdosing on the low mids, as one might with most highly compressed amps. If you have a multi band compressor, where you can set the compression levels of different frequency bands, you can get a sense of what I'm talking about.

Listen to a Dumble (or clone), and then listen to a Mesa, which is also a cascading gain amp with what I'd call a compressed sound.

They're very different. The Dumble is more mid-centric, has more clarity in the highs than a Mesa gain channel. and less girth/ mud in the bass.

This is not a knock on Mesas; I love Mesas, and have two of them. They're simply different from Dumbles. So talking about part values and circuit differences...well...what's the point? If they sound different, that's all that matters.

Nonetheless, I completely agree with your point that if an amp sounds good, it IS good!

Fascinating!

The truth of it is that the only tube amp I've spent serious time with is my archon. I've played a handful of amps in stores (mostly fender and blackstar), but it's unfamiliar guitars and low volumes. Not a fair test of the amps.

I'd love to spend a day with something like a JCM800 just to see if it's for me.

I know I love the sounds of my Archon. But I really don't know what's out there in the amp world. I can listen to demos but nothing replaces actually playing one and turning knobs.

 

[Mark Ray]

Fascinating!

The truth of it is that the only tube amp I've spent serious time with is my archon. I've played a handful of amps in stores (mostly fender and blackstar), but it's unfamiliar guitars and low volumes. Not a fair test of the amps.

I'd love to spend a day with something like a JCM800 just to see if it's for me.

I know I love the sounds of my Archon. But I really don't know what's out there in the amp world. I can listen to demos but nothing replaces actually playing one and turning knobs.

Funny you should bring this up. A friend started at the local GC a few months ago. He just posted yesterday about how "people need to watch their volume," etc. There was a time several years ago, when you could walk in and there would be several full stacks, and go at it. The other guitarist in my band at the time and I would go in there, tune up, plug in and give 'em a go! I'm not going to invest that kind of money in an amp and not know what it can do at gig volumes. Of course everything has gone to "Mini-Me" now, but still. And the guys working never said anything. Maybe it was because we were in tune and were playing actual songs?