Dead spot in 513 pickup selection?

[Dusty Chalk]

I just got a used 513 (in violet) and when the 3-way switch is in "clear humbucking" (middle position) and the 5-way switch is all the way up (bass pickup), it's significantly quieter, as in at first I thought it was silent -- is that normal? I assume not, what should I look for first, a missing pickup? The electronics? I hope it's not a cold solder joint, I hate​ those.

 

[Dancing Frog]

Probably, a broken tap wire in one of the neck pick ups and possibly a cracked pick up frame, but it could also be a bad connection of one of the tap wires at the superswitch. Those are probably the most likely culprits. I have a 305 prototype with tapped pick ups that developed an intermittent in that caused in the neck pick up to have a significant drop in volume when the tap was engaged.

513 pick ups can be fragile. If they get canted too much when somebody sets the pick up height, it can cause the frame to crack and cause the connection to the PC boards that the pick ups are mounted on to be stressed. It is also possible that somebody tightened the neck pick ups down too far and distorted the shape of the PC board. It might come back if you raise the pick ups a turn if it's not to far gone. But, it looks like it's headed for the factory.

But before that, I would also check to see that the 5 way isn't touching the side of the cavity that caused a neck pick up knock out on one of my 513 rosewoods. Somewhere along the line, it got bent. However, that should have shown up right at beginning of its life.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Thanks for all the info. But it's definitely wrong? (I was confused by the fact that there were 13 choices, when 5x3 == 15.) I just wanted to make sure before I contacted the seller. So if I'm reading you right, the one thing I should try (if I otherwise do not know what I'm doing) is raise the pickups, and/or see if the 5-way is touching the side of the cavity, otherwise I should take it to the factory. (Mine's not intermittent.)

Is it also possible it's been modded? Or one of the pickups taken out?

 

[Maertl513]

@Dusty Chalk: Calculating 5x3=15 is wrong, because you suppose the singlecoil at the middle has the same voicing options (singlecoil, clear humbucking, and heavy humbucking) if you´re flicking up and down the three-way-blade-switch.
But: The singlecoil at the middle position stays in its voicing "singlecoil" even in the positions clear and heavy humbucking. Therefore (5x3)-2=13.

 

[Dancing Frog]

If you are getting the Modern Humbucking and Singlecoil at full level and the Clear Humbucking with significant loss of volume, then it is the tap wire in one of the pick ups in the neck. Cutting the tap wire for one of the neck pups doesn't make sense as a mod.

The mods that are common for the 513 are a mod that adds a push-pull tone pot under the main board that connects the neck and bridge together so that one can get the neck and bridge on the in the neck and bridge together in the neck and bridge positions and all on in the mixed positions. That one is called the Murali mod. The second mod uses the push-pull to switch one of the clusters with the middle so that one can get neck and bridge in one of the mixed positions. The third one is the simple 515 mod. That one just rewires the 5 way so that the middle position gives you neck and bridge. Everything else is the same.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Yeah, no, I was wondering if maybe someone had taken out one of the pickups. "There are so many, he won't miss one." I've contacted the seller. And PRS.

@Dusty Chalk: Calculating 5x3=15 is wrong, because you suppose the singlecoil at the middle has the same voicing options (singlecoil, clear humbucking, and heavy humbucking) if you´re flicking up and down the three-way-blade-switch.
But: The singlecoil at the middle position stays in its voicing "singlecoil" even in the positions clear and heavy humbucking. Therefore (5x3)-2=13.

Thank you! I was wondering where my math went wrong. Doh!

 

[Dusty Chalk]

To follow-up, seller has been a stand-up guy...girl...uh...person, sent me $350 to get it fixed as a peace offering -- is willing to pay the entire amount, but thinks it'll be less than that, and I agree -- assured me it was working before it was shipped, so it's probably just something got jostled in transit.

Thanks for all the detailed info, both here and in other threads. Now I kind of want a 515.

 

[Dancing Frog]

If it's going back to the PTC, you might want to consider getting it hand-wired. That's now available as a factory installed option. They take out the main PC board and wire everything up to the switches directly. It makes the guitar more woody sounding and livelier. My PS 515 is handwired. It's the liveliest and most resonant one in my stable. They won't do it on the production guitars, because it takes too long and costs too much to be worth the effort.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Mmm...that does sound enticing. I will discuss it with them when they get back to me. You're saying as a 513, or as a 515 and get it modded right away? I've only just learned of the 515, I've been lusting after the 513 for over a year now and only just finally got one. Do you think I'll be missing much?

So the 5-way changes from trebles/trebles+middle/middle/middle+basses/basses to trebles/trebles+middle/trebles+basses/middle+basses/basses, and the 3-way stays the same? So I'd lose the ability to single out the middle pickup (but not one of the trebles or one of the basses), but gain the ability to get the virtual telecaster combination?

Damn, tough choice.

Yeah, yeah, I know, just get another one.

You freakin' enablers, you!

 

[Dancing Frog]

Yep, virtual telecaster, but I would think of it as being closer to an updated version of the original PRS guitar which had a rotary 5 way that tried to give you those combinations. However, where that one failed on some level, this one succeeds times three. Whether to go for that mod depends on whether or not you actually use the middle pick up on a strat. If you do, then do the mod later after you've had time to get used to it.

I also set up my 513's so that the middle pick up is lower by a turn. That makes the differences between the mixed positions more pronounced and makes the middle pick up weaker sounding, but I do not recommend doing that until you've played it awhile.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

The mods that are common for the 513 are a mod that adds a push-pull tone pot under the main board that connects the neck and bridge together so that one can get the neck and bridge on the in the neck and bridge together in the neck and bridge positions and all on in the mixed positions. That one is called the Murali mod. The second mod uses the push-pull to switch one of the clusters with the middle so that one can get neck and bridge in one of the mixed positions. The third one is the simple 515 mod. That one just rewires the 5 way so that the middle position gives you neck and bridge. Everything else is the same.

Okay, I'm not sure I understood this, so I'm going to repeat it back to see if I understand them:
handwire -- self-explanatory;
515 mod -- have neck and bridge pups instead of the one middle singlecoil; (questions about this one -- in singlecoil mode, outer, yes? in both humbucking modes -- both(all four)?)
515/513 mod (making the name up) -- adds a push-pull switch so that you can go back and forth between all 513 choices and the 515 choices, yes?
Murali mod -- just a cluster of push pull options, reconfigures everything, would basically need to relearn the switch configurations, saving that for another guitar another day.

Thanks again for all the help enlightening the newbie.

 

[alantig]

IIRC correctly, the 515 mod gave you both neck and bridge humbuckers in the two humbucking modes - like the middle position on a DGT or Les Paul.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

515/513 mod (making the name up) -- adds a push-pull switch so that you can go back and forth between all 513 choices and the 515 choices, yes?

No. Received clarification from PTC -- this should probably be called the 513+3 mod, because it's the 513 with the push-pull in the down position; but disengages the 5-way and engages the outer four singlecoil pickups (as in the 515 mod) in the up position, still allowing the 3-way switch to choose between humbucking/other humbucking/singlecoil. So, 513+3.

(I am having my guitar modded while they have it -- this mod retains enough of the essence of the 513 that I can still get used to all its versatility in its standard form, while still giving me the "moar better" versatility that I crave.)

Cheers to Matt @ the PTC for his patience with me.

 

[Snoopygore71]

Interesting - did you clarify that that mod was with the PCB or a hardwire as they are doing now?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Hardwire is a separate mod, but I'm having that done, too.