Custom 24 vs Standard 24

[Rohann]

Hi all,

I recently posted about (and subsequently discovered) that I bought what I thought was a 2002 CU24, but turns out it may be a Standard 24. I'm a bit thrown off, and am wondering whether I should try and sell or trade it to get a CU24, or keep it. I love the feel of it for whatever reason, but it's difficult to determine what it's capable of due to my lack of other decent equipment (on a practice amp for right now).
Conceptually I wanted a CU24 for the tonal ranges and capabilities, and I'm not sure (conceptually) an all-mahogany can handle all of what I'm looking for.


What I'm wondering is:
-Does anyone have both, and can comment on differences in tone (can't find comparison videos)?

-Would an all mahogany have enough low end and clarity for certain types of metal ( not the only thing I'm interested in, I'll post some examples) as well as handling other genres (I.e. does it have the versatility of a CU or Singlecut)?

-If you have a Standard, what do you like about it and use it for?

I'm sure this has been asked before so I apologize if it's a repeat, but I've only found general answers (I.e. mahogany has more mids and less ends, etc).

 

[CatStrangler]

I recently bought a dgt standard and think it is awesome. After spending some time with it I think that a standard 24 might be ideal for an all mahogany instrument.

Regular necks do feel awesome.

I suspect it will hold up fine for the occasional metal Jam, but I am not really a high gain player. I do think the all mahogany chassis is great for rock and cleans. So far I am not using my dgt standard any differently than my maple topped guitars, other than dialing in my amps slightly differently. If it is dynamic and lively guitar with good sustain, I think it will be versatile. Good luck I hope it works out for you! Phil

 

[László]

All-mahogany guitar players I can think of off the top of my head: Brian May, Queen; Tony Iommi, Black Sabbath; Frank Zappa; George Harrison played one on Revolver; Derek Trucks, Allmans; Clapton, Cream; Angus Young, AC/DC; Townshend, Who. Many others, of course.

I think the notion of "this guitar has more versatility" is way overblown. First of all, how many players who have the claimed "this guitar does everything" guitar also have other guitars to do different things? Well, we know that the correct answer is "Many."

Second, how many really versatile players use the same guitar for just about everything? Again, many.

It isn't a question of what the guitar is capable of, it's more a question of what the player is capable of. Sure, we all have tone preferences for certain things, and certain styles, but in the end, it's all a matter of personal taste.

If you have it in your head that maple tops make a guitar more versatile, then that's the reality. If you have it in your head that the maple tops sound a bit different, but are no more versatile than anything else, well, that is also the reality. In other words, your question can't be answered truthfully!

For the last few months, I've played every single ad music session, without exception, with a PRS McCarty Singlecut. There probably isn't another player on this forum who would tell you that the Singlecut is that versatile a guitar.

But it is.

You just have to spend a little time dialing sounds in to make any guitar as versatile as you need it to be.

 

[sleary]

I've had both all mahogany and maple guitars. I personally love an all mahogany for metal, lots of low end. I currently have three mahogany/maple and one prs se Clint lowrey, all mahogany.

 

[László]

I should add that I used a Gibson SG Special as my only guitar from 1967-1991, and during the last few years I had it, recorded all of my ad tracks with it (in many different styles). This despite P-90 pickups and the thing being old.

From 2008-2010 my main guitar was a PRS Mira that, again, was all-mahogany. Just as versatile as can be, IMHO. I've also had the most formidable "versatility" guitars (just my opinion), the PRS 408 Maple and the PRS Signature Limited (with its maple top).

Strangely enough I'm getting sounds I want with the McCarty Singlecut that I find very useful, even though it can't get as many just by flicking switches.

I'm not the greatest player out there, most of you can play better. However I do record professionally,, so there's that.

Finding the right guitar is a personal preference thing, it is definitely not a "this is the best guitar for x, y or z" thing.

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

I have both and find them to be quite sonically different as well as different in the feel. I was comparing my PRS' last night an noticed that the Standard 24 is actually much thinner than a CU24. I compare it to something like an SG and that's the same type of tones I get from it with Dragon 2 pickups. Still on the fence about the D2's but I don't hate them.

 

[AP515]

I've got a Standard 22 and a Custom 22. The Standard has more mids, the Custom more highs. They both give me a tone I want. If you have to cut through the mix you may like the Custom better, I turn the treble EQ down anyway so for me I just turn it back up when I play the Standard and I'm back where I want to be.

 

[Brad737]

With the early PRS models, I prefer the Standards by a good margin tonally.

 

[vchizzle]

I've always described PRS standards as being more focused than their maple top counterparts. So they feel and sound a little bit "tighter". This makes them AWESOME rock and metal guitars. They are by no means limited to that though. I have 2 McCarty standards, 1 with \m/ pickup and the other with 5708. Both are very dynamic and versatile guitars.

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

Not to thread jack, but how do the \m/ pickups sound in the standard? I have been considering them for mine

 

[Rohann]

Thanks all! I appreciate the input.

Catstrangler: Glad to hear it's working well practically for you! Also glad to hear about cleans, those are important to me.

LSchefman: That makes a lot of sense. I suppose I'm more wondering not so much about versatility in a yes/no sense, as much as in a contextual sense. I.e. Great examples listed, but I think the majority of what I'm interested in playing is a little more on a different end of the spectrum, one that typically contains a wider dynamic range, at least from what I understand. Hearing about your experiences does help though - so you do believe that it ends up being more of a "dialing" situation? I suppose what's thrown me a bit is reading about how a CU24 can essentially emulate most of the tones a Standard can, whereas the inverse isn't exactly true (at least naturally), and also the fact that the Standard (as far as I can tell) is discontinued whereas the CU24 is kind of the "quintessential" PRS.

I do see what you mean about "this guitar is best for x, y, or z", but would you say "better" or "more appropriate" is a term that can factor in? I.e. (stereotypically) a strat conveys a very different type of atmosphere and "feel" than an LP and people often use them for different purposes.

Sleary: I'd love to hear any examples if you have any.

AP515: Interesting - do you find the sound to feel as "organic" when compensated for? I.e. turning the bass up on a stereo without a subwoofer can sound passable but "forced", whereas a good hifi system with a sub capturing the right frequencies sounds incredibly natural.

Brad737: What do you focus on most in terms of music? And what do you notice is different?

vchizzle: That's really interesting, I've always heard people describe all mahogany's as more "muddy" and less clear. "Focused" is interesting.

Bowtie: Interesting. Again, if you have anything recorded I'd love to hear the difference. Difficult to do from where I'm at. Interesting about thickness too - I find mine feels thicker and more "solid" than some of the newer PRS's I've played, could be because of the neck though. And no worries about hijacking, I'd love to hear how pickups change the sound too.
---------------------

I suppose why I'm so hung up on this is that I'm a relatively poor university student (married as well so responsibility in terms of spending is a factor [though to my wife's credit she encourages me to spend more on gear than I do]), and I'm hoping to buy something that gives me a broad range in terms of sound design. I love ambient and experimentation as much as anything, and I love the kind of things Steven Wilson does with his Singlecut.

For reference, if you'd like to humour me, I'm more or less looking for tones in the ranges below (just a few seconds of each will do - excuse the aggressive metal if it's not your thing). Some rather specific parts, but hopefully it provides context. Obviously not looking to nail all of these, but hopefully gives an idea of a starting point in what I'm looking for.
---------------
1. Hardcore (not the genre) stuff (excuse the typical crass death-metal artwork/lyrical content, but the tone is solid for such heavy stuff). I think they're in drop A, and I doubt I'll go this low, but have you guys found drop tuning to C or D (at the most) can still produce clear tone? (Just from start til about 0:40, the polyrhythmic pulloff riff is what I'm referring to)
http://youtu.be/5CIBGwcs6OE?t=29s

2. (Big surprise) Opeth heavy tone 1 - don't want to copy them by any means, but I love what they do with E standard tuning and they have great tone for distorted stuff. Their variety of tones is initially what got me interested in PRS's:

3. Opeth "old school" heavy tone (kind of black metal-y)- I think they were recording with CE's back in the day so it's a bit more treble-y, but I'm wondering if I can pull this kind of thing out of a standard:

4. Old school lead tone (solo and beyond):
http://youtu.be/lgyaVQ_XZA4?t=3m19s

5. Love this "pingy" intro with the tight guitar following - song is better in context of record mind you:

6. (Big surprise again) Porcupine Tree:
Here (rhythm): http://youtu.be/WbWhpfXisZw?t=6m53s
And lovely solo (not by SW but still). This is probably some of my favourite clean tone ever:
http://youtu.be/WbWhpfXisZw?t=8m49s

7. Last bit of clean tone:
The simplicity and beauty of this gets me every time
http://youtu.be/gZOGyzVDxfE?t=5m24

I'm aware many of these are probably recorded on Tele's and LP's, but they've played all this stuff live with their PRS's. Sorry for the lengthy writeup, but I appreciate all the responses. There's a long list of other examples I could use but this was the "PRS player" example list.

 

[László]

LSchefman: That makes a lot of sense. I suppose I'm more wondering not so much about versatility in a yes/no sense, as much as in a contextual sense. I.e. Great examples listed, but I think the majority of what I'm interested in playing is a little more on a different end of the spectrum, one that typically contains a wider dynamic range, at least from what I understand. Hearing about your experiences does help though - so you do believe that it ends up being more of a "dialing" situation? I suppose what's thrown me a bit is reading about how a CU24 can essentially emulate most of the tones a Standard can, whereas the inverse isn't exactly true (at least naturally), and also the fact that the Standard (as far as I can tell) is discontinued whereas the CU24 is kind of the "quintessential" PRS.

Clean sounds have the greatest dynamic range, that is, the range between how softly and how loudly the guitar can play. Actually, the heavier the guitar sound, the less dynamic range it has due to amplifier compression - tubes that are clipping are inherently very compressed and have much less dynamic range. Clipping means that the normally sinusoidal waveform is clipped off and turned into a square wave. This also reduces high frequency content being reproduced from the guitar, and what you hear as high frequencies after a certain cutoff point are harmonics created by the amp itself.

Clipping also increases the amount of bass you hear, relative to the mids and highs.

I'd be willing to be that you'd not be able to reliably identify a CU24 vs a Std24 with the same pickups through a heavily distorted amp in an A/B test; that is, more than the random 50% one would expect by guessing.

I do see what you mean about "this guitar is best for x, y, or z", but would you say "better" or "more appropriate" is a term that can factor in? I.e. (stereotypically) a strat conveys a very different type of atmosphere and "feel" than an LP and people often use them for different purposes.

This would be a matter of taste, wouldn't it?

I get that you're anxious about whether you could hear the difference between the two guitars because you maybe bought the wrong one.

So go try a Custom out and see if you like it better with your own playing style. Either it works better for you, or it doesn't. If it works better for you, switch. If not, you just saved yourself some money.

But the idea that there is a rulebook for this stuff is not true.

 

[Rohann]

Clean sounds have the greatest dynamic range, that is, the range between how softly and how loudly the guitar can play. Actually, the heavier the guitar sound, the less dynamic range it has due to amplifier compression - tubes that are clipping are inherently very compressed and have much less dynamic range. Clipping means that the normally sinusoidal waveform is clipped off and turned into a square wave. This also reduces high frequency content being reproduced from the guitar, and what you hear as high frequencies after a certain cutoff point are harmonics created by the amp itself.

Clipping also increases the amount of bass you hear, relative to the mids and highs.

I'd be willing to be that you'd not be able to reliably identify a CU24 vs a Std24 with the same pickups through a heavily distorted amp in an A/B test; that is, more than the random 50% one would expect by guessing.

No idea why I said dynamic range! I meant "tonal" range, in the sense of instead of straight rock and a basic clean, I'm looking for a wide variety. Thanks for the explanation though, I'm ignorant when it comes to specifics. And good to know on the blind test, I'm always fascinated by trying tests like that, especially when it comes to subjective tone and how much stock people put into the differences they can hear.

This would be a matter of taste, wouldn't it?

I get that you're anxious about whether you could hear the difference between the two guitars because you maybe bought the wrong one.

So go try a Custom out and see if you like it better with your own playing style. Either it works better for you, or it doesn't. If it works better for you, switch. If not, you just saved yourself some money.

But the idea that there is a rulebook for this stuff is not true.

Great points, and yeah you hit it on the head exactly. It's a little jarring when you spend a (relative) bunch on a guitar and it turns out to be something quite different.
Your last sentence is especially pertinent - I think my inquisition comes from a point of "why do all the musicians I want to emulate in some form or another all use x instead of y?" Still don't know why that is, but I'm glad to know it's not set in stone.

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

A true test would be to play both guitars with the same pickups through the same amp. I can say that I do agree about the tonal ranges of the Standard vs Custom. I love both, and bought the standard specifically because it was all hog. There are so many PRS models, why not own them all! Haha!

 

[Rohann]

A true test would be to play both guitars with the same pickups through the same amp. I can say that I do agree about the tonal ranges of the Standard vs Custom. I love both, and bought the standard specifically because it was all hog. There are so many PRS models, why not own them all! Haha!

Agree in what sense? That they differ or are equally capable?

 

[László]

No idea why I said dynamic range! I meant "tonal" range, in the sense of instead of straight rock and a basic clean, I'm looking for a wide variety. Thanks for the explanation though, I'm ignorant when it comes to specifics. And good to know on the blind test, I'm always fascinated by trying tests like that, especially when it comes to subjective tone and how much stock people put into the differences they can hear.

Clean, you'd hear a difference between the two guitars. Through a heavily distorted amp is where most folks would be in random guess land.

Just my two cents. But it sure won't hurt to try both through amps set up the way you like them just to make sure.

 

[Rohann]

Clean, you'd hear a difference between the two guitars. Through a heavily distorted amp is where most folks would be in random guess land.

Just my two cents. But it sure won't hurt to try both through amps set up the way you like them just to make sure.

The caveat is simply finding a CU24 anywhere nearby . Small-ish island city in Canada = limited market.
Are cleans where the whole "filtering" processes come in? I.e. the maple cutting some of the mids and boosting the ends (a poorly paraphrased version of what I think you mentioned in another thread)? And can proper amp dialing negate these differences, or is this where the differences stand out?

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

Agree in what sense? That they differ or are equally capable?

Agree in that they differ quite a bit and that the standard tends to be more mid focused where the customs tend to be more high focused

 

[László]

The caveat is simply finding a CU24 anywhere nearby . Small-ish island city in Canada = limited market.?

Canadian government won't allow you to drive to another city to check some guitars out, huh?

 

[Jazzedout]

Supposing your guitar has the HFS pickup in the bridge I would guess you're good to go if you're looking for a heavier tone. The amp rig will do most of the work after that!!

IMHO I wouldn't worry having an exact model to create X or Y sound... My HFS equipped Custom 24 is great for heavier stuff, but it is also great for low gain stuff as well.
Even with a fairly high gain amp setting, rolling back the volume to around 6-7 and maybe toying a bit with the tone knob gets you to AC/DC type of sound. Someone would think that you should have an all hog guitar with low output pickup to do that... YMMV, my 2p and all that...