Custom 24 Artist finish faded from 'blue matteo' to 'dull grey' in 4 years - options?

[JasonE]

I too prefer the color now. Beautiful guitar.

I've seen enough of these "Blue guitar has faded" posts over the years that I've stopped being surprised. I almost think that all blue PRS guitars need to come with a Buyer Beware warning label. It does get me thinking though....do other manufacturer's blue guitars have the same problem? I don't really follow any other forums but are blue gibsons or blue music man guitars fading like PRSs?

Other manufacturers have had the same issue. I have seen pictures of Ibanez and Gibson guitars with the same fading issues. I have a whale blue custom 24 that has not changed in color since I have owned it, since 2006. It is in the case when it is not in my hands. I didn't find out about the blue fading issues until a good while after I bought the guitar. I may have chosen a different color if I had known even though I have not had an issue.

And nobody thinks this is a problem? If I had a car that faded so badly I'd have to change the registration on it from 'blue' to 'grey', the manufacturer would be run out of town on a rail if they charged a dime anywhere in the first 20 years of use.

I see it as a problem. I would probably try to negotiate with them on the refinish price since it is technically a problem with a material or workmanship.

 

[bodia]

It all comes down to the fact that they use organic dyes. The reason; so you can see that fabulous quilt or flamed maple. Using an inorganic dye would just cover that goodness up. Other brands have it that use organic dyes. Someone recently posted about their fairly new LP in some shade of blue fading. There are some finishes PRS has stopped doing due to it. Northern Lights being one of them. I get it that you’re bummed, but it comes down to science with respect to organic dyes and their interaction with UV light, and just light in general.

I agree, it sucks to be on that end of it, unless you really dig what it turns into. Not sure how I’d feel. I’ve seen some really awesome looking faded guitars on this forum. Some of those guitar owners like it, and some are in your boat. I don’t think I’d by a blue guitar, unless I was getting a great deal on something I was really on the hunt for. Not because of fading issues, but because I’m not a fan of blue. So much so that the Whale Blue Cu22 that I had that wouldn‘t fade, no mater how much I let is sit in the sunlight, I finally had the PTC refinish in Purple Hazel.

I will say, that as a big fan of the Customer Service I have received from PRS, I am really disappointed with their $1,400 quote for your refin. That’s the price for an up and down the street refin, for them. No discount at all. If I were you, I’d be pissed, too. As a long posting member here, I’d say I’m a little embarrassed. God, I miss Shawn.

OP, here’s a thread that has a couple of good posts about organic dyes, and their reaction to light. Not trying to convince you that it is “normal”, or that you should just accept it. Just hoping to provide a little more info.

Faded blue color

Hello. I'm recently interested in a 35th anniv. Custom 24 finished in faded blue jean. Years ago I read that PRS has some problem with their blue finish fading quickly. I want to know if they have fixed this problem? Does anyone have example of how the "faded blue jean" would look like after it...

forums.prsguitars.com

 

[sleeplessknight]

I appreciate the context. I've got an email into a couple of 3rd party refinishers too, we'll see what they have to say. If they can get me a more durable finish for the same price or less, PRS is out a customer.

 

[Bogner]

And nobody thinks this is a problem? If I had a car that faded so badly I'd have to change the registration on it from 'blue' to 'grey', the manufacturer would be run out of town on a rail if they charged a dime anywhere in the first 20 years of use.

I Am Really Sorry To Hear This And Am Frustrated For You. I Have Had A Few Issues Myself (Not Color Fade) Where I Have Been "Not Completely Satisfied".

Yes...I Do Find This To Be A Problem And No, I Am Not OK With It. Be Thankful You Have A Playable Guitar Rather Than A Low 5 Figure Paper Weight / Door Stop.

 

[Greywolf]

I use Trans tint liquid based dyes and have excellent luck with it . even the blues after a decade .. I still recommend keeping most finishes out of the light as UV will eventually break down the plastic parts too .. .

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

I feel for you. This is such a beautiful color. And really strange, as I have a 2019 in Matteo Blue, it lives on a wall hanger, and is the same color as when new. You’d think they were using similar stain/dye lots or formulations in the same year.

 

[RC Mike]

I have conflicting reactions to this. Part of me says, yeah, this is what happens when you leave a blue PRS exposed to light. Yes, the OP says he didn’t do that, but people will say a lot of things at times. I don’t know the OP, so no idea if he’s on the level or mistakenly thinking that someone from PRS reads this forum.

Dealer photos are often taken under unusual lighting conditions to highlight the stain.

It’s disappointing to see CS’s response. PRS knows they have/had a problem with blue dyes. They’ve stopped using some because of it. Warranty limitation aside, it shouldn’t happen that fast if the product is cased. PRS doesn’t go out if their way to warn people about fading or suggest how to prevent it. That’s a recipe for bad feelings.

What would I do if I were the OP? I’d stop talking about this online. It’s not going to help. It can potentially hurt a resolution.

I would take a moment to pull the pickup rings and document the degree of fading. Then I’d take that to my dealer. Ask them to treat it as a warranty issue, and work it that way. First, seek agreement that it’s an unreasonable degree of fading over that amount of time. Once that is agreed upon, everything should get a little easier. The dealer can work it on their end, through their regional rep if needed.

I wouldn’t mention any interactions with customer service to the dealer. I wouldn’t make any snarky comments or meaningless threats about not buying again. Stupid stuff like that doesn’t motivate a person to be helpful. Be reasonable, be receptive, and be courteous—good things come out of all of that.

 

[sleeplessknight]

I appreciate the words of wisdom, Mike. I have reached out to the original dealer - they were my first port-of-call. Unfortunately, they aren't local to me - they're in FL, and I was in WA at the time, so I was/am "just another internet rando". I explained the situation as nicely as I could (and believe me, I can be a downright sweetheart when I want to be, lol), and asked if there was anything they could do. They said there was nothing they could do, and that I should reach out to PRS CS directly. I went back and forth with CS, reached BACK out to the dealer and asked if they had any 'juice' with PRS through their sales org (the dealer apparently moves a non-trivial amount of PRS guitars, according to Reverb). That went unanswered. Somewhere in the middle of all this, I found this forum and posted.

Right now, I am so disgusted with PRS CS that I am going with a third party to refinish the guitar. They're reasonably popular here (found them through a search on 'refinishing PRS blue guitars', of all things), and the price quoted me was fully half of what PRS CS wants. PRS is never seeing another dollar from me, and that's not just an idle threat. I have lots of hobbies. Being a persistent thorn in the side of a major corporation is just another one on the list, as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe, just maybe, some fine internet person will read this post in the future, and decide not to purchase a PRS guitar based on this post. I'd be much obliged if they replied here saying so, and we could keep a running score of how many $5000 guitars PRS doesn't sell. Free internet points all around!

Maybe, just maybe, further on down the line - and I'm talking years here, maybe decades - some mucky-muck from PRS will start to wonder why their sales volume has dropped and they'll do an internet search for "PRS <unflattering word for an intimate act here>", and they'll find this post among the pile. "Exhibit #24601". If someone learns a lesson on "how to treat a customer under warranty", it'll all be worth it.

It only works if consumers get mad enough to shuffle their disposable guitar-dollars elsewhere. TBH I'm a little horrified at some of the Stockholm Syndrome posts I've read here, along the lines of "Oh it's OK, I like the faded color." "Oh it's fine, PRS blues just do that". "Oh it's your fault Mr Internet Rando, you should've known PRS can't make a blue last" Granted, the whole forum is a celebration of PRS so I'm not too surprised, but still.

Anyway, I'll post the refinished guitar here when it comes back. FWIW the refinisher is suitably horrified at the degree of fading, is quietly confident he can fix it, and will even put some 'UV blocker' in one of his top-coats so his blue will last. Time will tell of course, and we all know the only things guaranteed in this life are death and taxes. If I can get a decade out of the refinished blue before it goes the greying way of all things, I'll consider honor satisfied.

 

[Tony M.]

The blue ones fade.
PRS knows they fade.
PRS has done nothing to correct this?
PRS wants $1,400.00 to refinish their faded guitars?

I'm not OK with that.

 

[aamefford]

I like blue. I like PRS guitars. I’ll never, ever buy a blue, green or purple one, except maybe an opaque one.

Too much evidence of failure in those colors.

 

[show_a_little_faith]

"This warranty does not cover normal “wear and tear,” including but not limited to any discoloration, fading, finish cracking, or damage to the original finish, worn frets, strings, tuners, hardware, and plating." (emphasis theirs).

I don't know man - they specifically say this isn't covered by warranty, but you're mad they won't fix it under warranty... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[sleeplessknight]

They don't specifically say anything. They bury it in the Terms and Conditions - which, I might add, no one ever reads. If they wanted to be specific, they'd put a banner on their blue/purple/green guitars to the tune of "Hey, we don't guarantee **** on this finish. Caveat Emptor".

One would presume that a $5000 guitar with the PRS name on it has a world-class guarantee behind it. "Fit and finish" problems are cheerfully taken care of by manufacturers large and small the world over. Yes, PRS has a technically sound loophole in the T&C, but it is a surprise. An expensive, disappointing, customer-relationship-ending surprise.

 

[show_a_little_faith]

On their website: prsguitars.com > Support > FAQ and Warranty Information > Our Limited Lifetime Warranty

Look, I get it - I love the colors on my guitars, and I'll be very disappointed if/when any of them fade. But I really don't see it as PRS burying their covered/not covered info in a bunch of fine-print T&C legalese. It's literally nine sentences long at the beginning of their Warranty page:

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

1. Any instrument on which the serial number has been removed or altered
2. Any instrument not purchased from an authorized dealer or upon which unauthorized repair or service work has been carried out
3. Any instrument that has been damaged due to an accident, negligence or misuse
4. Shipping damage of any kind
5. Normal “wear and tear,” including but not limited to any discoloration, fading, finish cracking, or damage to the original finish, worn frets, strings, tuners, hardware, and plating
6. Any subjective issues such as wood grain, tonal characteristics, and “feel”
7. Any warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular use, including setup and pickup height
8. Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity and temperature
9. Any factory installed electronics and hardware after two years from the original date of purchase

 

[sleeplessknight]

Again: this is the definition of buried. Yes, the suits have had their way with it and gotten their fig-leaf in place. They are probably protected from a class-action suit or similar unpleasantness. Good laywers, have a cookie. A defect this blatant should, IMHO, be on the hang-tag of the guitar for it to be considered "reasonable warning" that their "magic color-changing finish" will go from blue to "weird grey-purple" in a few years. No other major manufacturer I'm aware of has problems with colors this severe. Maybe they could charge extra for it and advertise it as a feature.

We can also have fun arguing over the definition of "normal wear and tear" in sentence #5 halfway through their list of provisos. Show me Gibson's fig-leaf of the same nature. Fender? Takamine?

 

[show_a_little_faith]

Alright, you and I have very different definitions of "buried"

I do honestly hope your refin turns out well, good luck

 

[Tony M.]

It's not hidden or buried.
It's in very plain language in sentence # 5.
It's still a major problem though IMHO.
Maybe they should find a chemically different type of dye?

 

[sleeplessknight]

Who in their right mind, other than practicing lawyers, reads the fine print when buying a guitar? You have a certain set of expectations vis a vis "this guitar will not explode in my face when I plug it into an amp" and "this guitar will not turn to goo when exposed to relative humidity greater than Arizona in August". One of those 'reasonable person' expectations is "my guitar will stay the color I bought it at for at least a few years, outside of extenuating circumstances like storing it on my uncovered outdoor deck, or participating in an OK Go music video".

I understand PRS has the reputations of "the lawyer's guitar", but c'mon people....

 

[show_a_little_faith]

We can also have fun arguing over the definition of "normal wear and tear" in sentence #5 halfway through their list of provisos. Show me Gibson's fig-leaf of the same nature. Fender? Takamine?

Here you go chief, Gibson actually lists it TWICE (emphasis mine)

https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Support/Warranty/Gibson
THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

1. Any instrument that has been altered or modified in any way or upon which the serial number has been tampered with or altered.
2. Any instrument whose warranty card has been altered or upon which false information has been given.
3. Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation.
4. The subjective issue of tonal characteristics.
5. Shipping damages of any kind.
6. Any instrument that has been subjected to extremes of humidity or temperature
7. Normal wear and tear (i.e., worn frets, worn machine heads, worn plating, string replacement, scratched pickguards, or damages to or discoloration of the instrument finish for any reason).
8. Any instrument that has been purchased from an unauthorized dealer, or upon which unauthorized repair or service has been performed.
9. Any factory installed electronics after a period of one (I) year following the original date of purchase.
10. Cracking, discoloration or damage of any sort to the finish or plating for any reason.
11. Gibson does not warranty the playability of a instrument whose "action" is lower than the standard "action" as defined in the owners manual.

 

[show_a_little_faith]

And here's Fender's :
The following items are not covered by this Limited Warranty. 1. Fret wear, saddle wear, nut wear, strings and batteries. 2. Checking, shrinking, sinking, discoloration and ware of lacquer finishes. 3. Setups, adjustments or routine maintenance of any kind. 4. Damage to finishes or cracks, splitting, or warpage of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, exposure to or contact with sun, fire, moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration, guitar straps, guitar stands/hangers made from vinyl, plastic, rubber or other synthetic materials, any other chemicals or non-Fender/Squier-approved polishes. 5. Damage, corrosion or rusting of any hardware components caused by humidity, salty air, or exposure to the moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration. 6. Any damage to an instrument resulting from customization or modification. 7. Normal wear and tear on any part of the instrument, case or gig bag including jacks, controls, switches, plated surfaces, tuning machines, pick-guards, zippers, clasps, handles, latches, case hardware etc. 8. All other damage and deterioration due to normal usage, wear and tear, aging, accidents, neglect, abuse, or Acts of Nature. 9. Any instrument, whose serial number is missing, altered or tampered with in any fashion. 10. Any instrument purchased from anyone other than an Authorized Fender/Squier Dealer. 11. Instruments that have been serviced by unauthorized persons (any person other than a Fender/Squier Certified Technician at an Authorized Fender/Squier Service Center).

 

[sleeplessknight]

Thank you Counsel. Your $400 check is in the mail. Enjoy your free Internet Point™

Shall we opine what the attrition-rate of the Gibson legal department is to the PRS legal department, and vice-versa?