Converting CE22 from 5-way to toggle.

[boardn10]

Hey guys!

I have a 94 CE22 stock, I only use the bridge, neck and middle. I like the Dragons but prefer my Tremonti Bridge pickup and probably replacing the Dragon bridge with a Tremonti bridge as it seems beefier with more lows.
Also want to convert to a toggle switch and ditch the rotary.
The Dragon bridge seems brighter and more metallic.
Maybe I'll try a toggle first with the Dragons first.
Only thing that may prevent me from converting to the toggle setup is that the 5-way series/parallel tones are unique and I prefer to split tones. Not that I use these much but good to have.
But if I had a toggle and just ditched the split tones, I'd get more use out of the middle and neck positions.
Finally, thought about switching to some alnico pickups to get warmer tones. Not that the Dragons aren't warm. The neck Pickup is very and the bridge pickup is dark and fat.
Curious if you guys have any tips. Thanks.

 

[Lewguitar]

I'd do it. I have done it. To both my '96 CU22 and my '02 CU22.

I don't like the Dragon 1 or Dragon 2 pickups. I'm a paf type guy.

PRS makes much better pickups now than they did 20 years ago.

I removed the Dragons and the 5 way switch and installed Duncan Antiquitys and a 3 way switch in each, and I have no regrets.

I just used a reamer to enlarge the hole of the 5 way rotary to the slightly larger hole for a Switchcraft 3 way toggle.

Both guitars sound much better to me. Much more appropriate tone for blues and the kind of rock I like.

Keep the old pickups of course. Don't sell them.

If you ever need to restore the guitar to stock you can, and you find a nylon sleeve to slip around the rotary switch so you can reinstall it in the now larger hole.

 

[boardn10]

Hey man, thanks!
I don't like PAF style pickups but I love the Tremonti. I do however like the Dragon I neck pickup. Plus I use neck pickups rarely, lol. Nice to have but don't use em much. Maybe now and then, but still want to have the option.
I find the 5-way easy to us Nad love the 2/4 positions plus the ou don't get the coil drop out you get with split tones. Truth is I rarely use split tones and can get just as good a tone change by altering my picking hand style and picking position, close to the bridge, for example.

I am a big Suhr pickup fan and tempted to grab a Suhr wet and install with a basic toggle. I wouldn't bother with the split pots thought. I hate that volume drop and I don't think they wound as good as the 5 way. So I'm tempted to go with a Suhr set and basic toggle, no split pots.

That said, I like the Tremonti set a lot.

I'm sort of getting sick of my Dragon I bridge pickup though.

The Antiquities were not my thing. Nice but I preferred my Tremonti and Suhr pickups.

My 5-way switch it broken anyway. The one stem snapped off.

I've also read the Tremonti neck Pickup is essentially the same as the Dragon I neck Pickup. Not sure.

I love the Suhr Aldrich and I'd like to add some low end to my CE22. Don't know if the Aldrich will add a lot of low end push, but I know the Tremonti has some nice low end authority.

 

[Lewguitar]

Hey man, thanks!
I don't like PAF style pickups but I love the Tremonti. I do however like the Dragon I neck pickup. Plus I use neck pickups rarely, lol. Nice to have but don't use em much. Maybe now and then, but still want to have the option.
I find the 5-way easy to us Nad love the 2/4 positions plus the ou don't get the coil drop out you get with split tones. Truth is I rarely use split tones and can get just as good a tone change by altering my picking hand style and picking position, close to the bridge, for example.

I am a big Suhr pickup fan and tempted to grab a Suhr wet and install with a basic toggle. I wouldn't bother with the split pots thought. I hate that volume drop and I don't think they wound as good as the 5 way. So I'm tempted to go with a Suhr set and basic toggle, no split pots.

That said, I like the Tremonti set a lot.

I'm sort of getting sick of my Dragon I bridge pickup though.

The Antiquities were not my thing. Nice but I preferred my Tremonti and Suhr pickups.

My 5-way switch it broken anyway. The one stem snapped off.

Go for whatever you love man If it's Suhr, if it's a Tremonti...whatever! Good luck!

 

[boardn10]

Thanks Lew,

I like quite a few but the Tremonti set and Aldrich are the ones I'm liking lately.
I was told the Tremonti neck Pickup is the same as the original Dragon I neck. Do you know if that is accurate?

Secondly, I'd prefer the pickup in the bridge that added more low end push.

 

[Lewguitar]

Thanks Lew,

I like quite a few but the Tremonti set and Aldrich are the ones I'm liking lately.
I was told the Tremonti neck Pickup is the same as the original Dragon I neck. Do you know if that is accurate?

Secondly, I'd prefer the pickup in the bridge that added more low end push.

I don't. I do know that the Dragon neck is similar to a 1959 Gibson paf. Alot of them used an alnico 4 magnet and that seems to be the magnet used in the Dragon neck. It's an 8K pickup too, whixh is within the range for a 1959 paf.

Not saying they're the same. But similar.

 

[boardn10]

Thank you!

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

I’m sure some wiring gurus can chime in here. You could do a freeway switch for multiple options. I’m more straight forward personally. I converted my CU24 from rotary to toggle. I left my ‘91 stock when it comes to switching, but swapped the VB/HFS out for Dragon 1’s

 

[boardn10]

I’m sure some wiring gurus can chime in here. You could do a freeway switch for multiple options. I’m more straight forward personally. I converted my CU24 from rotary to toggle. I left my ‘91 stock when it comes to switching, but swapped the VB/HFS out for Dragon 1’s

Do you find the Dagon I bridge pickup to ever be too edgey and muddy at the same time? It's often said to be great for single note work like leads, but lacks clarity for rhythm work.

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

Do you find the Dagon I bridge pickup to ever be too edgey and muddy at the same time? It's often said to be great for single note work like leads, but lacks clarity for rhythm work.

Not at all. Could be different since I don’t have a tone know but I also had the same pickups in my old CE24 and it was an amazing pairing.

 

[boardn10]

Thanks for the input.
My 1994 CE 22 is stock and I've used it like this for years.
I am wanting to try either a PRS Tremonti (which I love in my Singlecut) treble pickup or Suhr Aldrich (which I love in my other Singlecut).

 

[boardn10]

Realized that I may not even need split pots or the 5-way. Just changing how I pick and the where I pick, changes the sound enough to give what I'm looking for without relying on split pots or a special switch. For example, pick close to the bridge for a brighter and more plunkt tone, rather than having to split a cool, plus I don't lose any volume.

 

[boardn10]

This is the toggle PRS sent me but it isn't deep enough to work. My tech tried to get it to work.

PRS 3-way Toggle Switch

PRS 3-way toggle switch for fits Customs, McCarty, Hollowbody and CE

us.prsaccessories.com

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

Did you ream out the rotary hole? Once I did that it fit perfectly in my Custom 24.

 

[boardn10]

Did you ream out the rotary hole? Once I did that it fit perfectly in my Custom 24.

Yep, I had already done that.
The one PRS sent is too shallow. These others will work.

I'm annoyed PRS told me to buy that angled toggle that turned out to be too shallow.

I had these sitting in a drawer for years and they for fine. Wishing I had dropped these off with the other one or tried first.

These will work....

https://imgur.com/a/exx7wnO

 

[Bowtiefanatc]

To be fair…it’s the one they use is all of their toggle setups. And your guitar wasn’t made initially to use that piece of hardware.

 

[boardn10]

True.
I would just think they'd know what to use in my case. The guy I talked to said this right angle toggle would definitely fit. Either way, no worries.

 

[boardn10]

To be fair…it’s the one they use is all of their toggle setups. And your guitar wasn’t made initially to use that piece of hardware.

True but he said it would work to convert it from the rotary. No worries!

 

[boardn10]

Thanks guys for the input and help.
I got the Tremonti installed and the toggle switch. It sounds huge.
Neck Pickup is the original Dragon I bass and they work well together.
Do you guys think it looks odd with one black coil and one zebra pickup?
I could always pickup a Tremonti bass which I believe are all nickel covered or another black coil neck pickup.

https://imgur.com/a/DKJXXP9

 

[boardn10]

Hey guys,

Anyone know which is the hot and which is the ground on the original PRS Dragon? My tech installed my Tremonti and not sure I'll stick to it. I know he had to flip wires to fix the phase issue but I may go back to my Dragon. I'll have to open up the cavity to see which he has hit and ground for the Tremonti and compare but not sure if the colors have changed over the years.

I need to adjust the Tremonti first before I decide. He likes really bright single coil tones and it appears he set up the Tremonti to provide a brighter than normal tone and I'm not enjoying it. The screw coils are up very high and the pickup is very close to the strings, much closer than my preference. I can easily bring the screw coils down 3-4 turns or more and can easily bring the pickup down 1/32" or so. That alone may give me what I want. Otherwise, I'll go back to the Dragon bridge pickup.

Dragon 1s - neck pickup is hot on white, bridge pickup is hot on black.
Does anyone know for the Tremonti what is considered hot? I may have to contact my tech to ask what he did to get the hade issue right.

Worst case, if it doesn't sound right, I can flip the wires.