Considering swapping out Dragon II’s for 57/08. Opinions?

LSchefman said:
Pickups can't really be discussed in a vacuum. A lot depends on playing style, amount of gain the amp is set at, preferred tones, etc. We're all different. I can share my experience, but yours may be vastly different.

I'm a low-gain player. I play at the 'edge of breakup', and prefer vintage-style, single channel amps. The Dragon IIs didn't work for me, I was after something closer to the old PAF stuff. The 57/08 has a nice balance between treble and bass - for me. YMMV.

I love the 57/08s. They're my favorite PRS traditional humbucker. Dragon IIs worked better with higher gain sounds than the stuff I do. That doesn't mean I didn't find them useful in my work from time to time, but I was much happier with the 57/08s on the guitars I've owned that came with them. My #1 is still the McCarty Singlecut that has 57/08s, though I do have other PRSes with different pickups.

For something a little hotter, I very much like the 85/15s that came with my CU24. They have plenty of treble bite.
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This is almost exactly where I am. I am a clean to medium gain player. I am not a huge fan of playing high gain tones. They are way more compressed and distorted for my taste. The Dragon II pickups were just too aggressive for me. I get a much wider range of tones from the 57/08 pickups. Honestly, I have 57/08 pickups in most of my PRS guitars. I was lucky enough to find guitars that came with them stock that I wanted. A couple that I have that are a bit unique to have them is a SC HBII and a P22 Trem.
 
JasonE said:
This is almost exactly where I am. I am a clean to medium gain player. I am not a huge fan of playing high gain tones. They are way more compressed and distorted for my taste. The Dragon II pickups were just too aggressive for me. I get a much wider range of tones from the 57/08 pickups. Honestly, I have 57/08 pickups in most of my PRS guitars. I was lucky enough to find guitars that came with them stock that I wanted. A couple that I have that are a bit unique to have them is a SC HBII and a P22 Trem.
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It's fun that we have that in common, as well as our joy in PRS Guitars!

My feeling about PRS' pickups is that the 57/08s are amazing humbuckers with a vintage PAF vibe, but just enough 'oomph'. I also like the 58/15s for coil-split tones, but for straight-on 'buckers, the 57/08s are the cat's ass.

The McCarty Singlecut that I call the 'Hammer of the Gods' has PRS-modded 57/08s, and it simply kicks butt in every way. But looking at my current stable, every single guitar has different pickups at the moment: 57/08s on my #1, Paul's Guitar 408s on my #2, and tied for third place are the Antiquity Soapbars, 85/15s and 58/15 LTs on the remaining ones.

Truth is, though, I could do fine with any one of these guitars in the context of my work, which is something that drives me nuts and makes me want to sell a few. Trouble is, I can't decide which ones to keep! :eek:
 
LSchefman said:
It's fun that we have that in common, as well as our joy in PRS Guitars!

My feeling about PRS' pickups is that the 57/08s are amazing humbuckers with a vintage PAF vibe, but just enough 'oomph'. I also like the 58/15s for coil-split tones, but for straight-on 'buckers, the 57/08s are the cat's ass.

The McCarty Singlecut that I call the 'Hammer of the Gods' has PRS-modded 57/08s, and it simply kicks butt in every way. But looking at my current stable, every single guitar has different pickups at the moment: 57/08s on my #1, Paul's Guitar 408s on my #2, and tied for third place are the Antiquity Soapbars, 85/15s and 58/15 LTs on the remaining ones.

Truth is, though, I could do fine with any one of these guitars in the context of my work, which is something that drives me nuts and makes me want to sell a few. Trouble is, I can't decide which ones to keep! :eek:
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I am gearing myself up for selling some off. I went to my local shop and talked to them about selling on consignment and their percentage is 20%, which isn't bad in my area now. They also said they do outright purchases to so I may go that route. I just have nowhere to put them anymore and I don't play most of them. The problem I have is I pull them out to think about selling them and I start playing them then I remember why I bought it in the first place and it goes back in the closet. I am going to try to break that cycle at some point and I expect there to be regrets. At my age, it just doesn't make sense to keep them all.
 
JasonE said:
I am gearing myself up for selling some off. I went to my local shop and talked to them about selling on consignment and their percentage is 20%, which isn't bad in my area now. They also said they do outright purchases to so I may go that route. I just have nowhere to put them anymore and I don't play most of them. The problem I have is I pull them out to think about selling them and I start playing them then I remember why I bought it in the first place and it goes back in the closet. I am going to try to break that cycle at some point and I expect there to be regrets. At my age, it just doesn't make sense to keep them all.
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I feel ya, brother. I can't decide what to sell, so I haven't sold, and for the very same reasons!

Like you, I remember how excited I was to receive each and every one. It's hard to let go of that.
 
The best way I can boil it down is this: Dragon IIs are really good pickups if you're the kind of player that likes to swap between high-gain and clean sounds a la late-80s to 90s rock. If you flip a dirt pedal on and off, or switch amp channels between really dirty and really clean you'll be happy with them. That's what they were made for.

If you go more for vintage 70s-ish shadings between kinda-clean and dirtier sounds, and want to ride the guitar's volume knob while playing a Marshall or Fender-style tube amp, the 57/08s are outstanding at that.
 
LSchefman said:
Pickups can't really be discussed in a vacuum. A lot depends on playing style, amount of gain the amp is set at, preferred tones, etc. We're all different. I can share my experience, but yours may be vastly different.

I'm a low-gain player. I play at the 'edge of breakup', and prefer vintage-style, single channel amps. The Dragon IIs didn't work for me, I was after something closer to the old PAF stuff. The 57/08 has a nice balance between treble and bass - for me. YMMV.

I love the 57/08s. They're my favorite PRS traditional humbucker. Dragon IIs worked better with higher gain sounds than the stuff I do. That doesn't mean I didn't find them useful in my work from time to time, but I was much happier with the 57/08s on the guitars I've owned that came with them. My #1 is still the McCarty Singlecut that has 57/08s, though I do have other PRSes with different pickups.

For something a little hotter, I very much like the 85/15s that came with my CU24. They have plenty of treble bite.
Click to expand...
Indeed, as I stated in my original post, I also have the 85/15’s, mine in a CE24 and they are terrific - great range.
 
Herr Squid said:
The best way I can boil it down is this: Dragon IIs are really good pickups if you're the kind of player that likes to swap between high-gain and clean sounds a la late-80s to 90s rock. If you flip a dirt pedal on and off, or switch amp channels between really dirty and really clean you'll be happy with them. That's what they were made for.

If you go more for vintage 70s-ish shadings between kinda-clean and dirtier sounds, and want to ride the guitar's volume knob while playing a Marshall or Fender-style tube amp, the 57/08s are outstanding at that.
Click to expand...
Appreciate the insights. I tend to play clean channel and don’t add a lot in the way of effects, so pickup selection and tone knob probably has more prevalence. I’m sure I can get a lot more out of my Dragons than I’ve tried for.
 
Fats said:
Appreciate the insights. I tend to play clean channel and don’t add a lot in the way of effects, so pickup selection and tone knob probably has more prevalence. I’m sure I can get a lot more out of my Dragons than I’ve tried for.
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@Fats … Did you try raising the polepieces on the Dragon 2 pickups? That will give you more treble. Raise em a couple of full turns… when doing so, if the pickups were set up close to the strings, you might have to lower them a tad…
I did this with mine and I’m real happy with them now…..
After many years of playing PAF style pickups like the 57/08’s, the Dragon 1’s and 2’s were a nice change for a pickup with more output and a tighter bottom end…. But that’s just me and my style of playing. (Bluesrock Allman Bros style for lack of a more accurate description)…..a bit of dirtier rhythms with more of a higher gain lead tone that doesn’t bite your head off with treble…..I like the DGT’s as well although the bridge pickup can be kind of bright, which I use my tone control for. But without it voiced this way, you would lose that Split humbucker Tele bridge tone which, imho, sounds great without having to deal with playing a Telecaster, which I’m not real fond of…
 
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Fats said:
Appreciate the insights. I tend to play clean channel and don’t add a lot in the way of effects, so pickup selection and tone knob probably has more prevalence. I’m sure I can get a lot more out of my Dragons than I’ve tried for.
Click to expand...

If you play mostly clean, I'd say the 57/08s are a better sounding pickup. To be fair, I haven't had any Dragon IIs in the house for 5-odd years. Also to be fair, I haven't missed those pickups one bit.
 
LSchefman said:
Pickups can't really be discussed in a vacuum. A lot depends on playing style, amount of gain the amp is set at, preferred tones, etc. We're all different. I can share my experience, but yours may be vastly different.

I'm a low-gain player. I play at the 'edge of breakup', and prefer vintage-style, single channel amps. The Dragon IIs didn't work for me, I was after something closer to the old PAF stuff. The 57/08 has a nice balance between treble and bass - for me. YMMV.

I love the 57/08s. They're my favorite PRS traditional humbucker. Dragon IIs worked better with higher gain sounds than the stuff I do. That doesn't mean I didn't find them useful in my work from time to time, but I was much happier with the 57/08s on the guitars I've owned that came with them. My #1 is still the McCarty Singlecut that has 57/08s, though I do have other PRSes with different pickups.

For something a little hotter, I very much like the 85/15s that came with my CU24. They have plenty of treble bite.
Click to expand...
Much appreciate the insight. Just the type of input I am looking for. Very helpful. Cheers.
 
Rod/ said:
@Fats … Did you try raising the polepieces on the Dragon 2 pickups? That will give you more treble. Raise em a couple of full turns… when doing so, if the pickups were set up close to the strings, you might have to lower them a tad…
I did this with mine and I’m real happy with them now…..
After many years of playing PAF style pickups like the 57/08’s, the Dragon 1’s and 2’s were a nice change for a pickup with more output…. But that’s just me and my style of playing. (Bluesrock Allman Bros style for lack of a more accurate description)…..a bit of dirtier rhythms with more of a higher gain lead tone that doesn’t bite your head off with treble…..I like the DGT’s as well
Click to expand...
Have not tried anything of that sort. Thanks for that input.
 
Herr Squid said:
If you play mostly clean, I'd say the 57/08s are a better sounding pickup. To be fair, I haven't had any Dragon IIs in the house for 5-odd years. Also to be fair, I haven't missed those pickups one bit.
Click to expand...
The Dragon 1’s work well if you install a treble bleed cap + resistor in parallel on the master volume control
They clean up great then with a very even frequency response ….. I did the same thing on my Santana SE when I installed a pair of 245’s……..same great results
 
Any new PRS humbucker sets are going to cost around $500. Have you considered having the bridge pickup or maybe both pickups in the Dragon II set REWOUND?

Jason Lollar, Lindy Fralin or the Seymour Duncan Custom Shop could do this. They'd charge about $100 per coil, so $200 per humbucking pickup.

The Dragon 1 set gets all the love and the Dragon 2 set doesn't get much enthusiasm at all.

The neck pickups in both sets seem to be identical, with the biggest diff being that it's nickel covered in the Dragon 2 set and uncovered in the Dragon 1 set. It's a good, strong 8K alnico 4 paf style pickup.

The difference in the two sets is the bridge pickup. 19K DCR and ceramic magnet in the Dragon 1 and 12K DCR and alnico 4 magnet in the Dragon 2.

You'll devalue a valuable guitar if you change them, and if you remove the rotary switch to install a 3 way switch you'll have to enlarge the hole which will make returning it to stock challenging.

If it was an original Dragon 1 set in your guitar I'd say don't do it. Leave the guitar stock.

But since they're Dragon II's, you might be happy with having the bridge Dragon II pickup rewound.

Or have both Dragon II pickups rewound to match the specs of whatever vintage pickup set you like.

And your guitar would still look stock!
 
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