Clean Amp Tone via a Pedal?

Marty Canaday

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At the risk of making myself look like an idiot I'll ask the following question. I play a PRS S2 Custom 24 through a Blackstar HT Club 40 MKII. The clean channel on the amp isn't as clean as I would prefer. I know preamp tubes can be changed in tube amps that may help, but here is the question: Does a pedal exist that makes a clean channel sound cleaner in tone?
 
At the risk of making myself look like an idiot I'll ask the following question. I play a PRS S2 Custom 24 through a Blackstar HT Club 40 MKII. The clean channel on the amp isn't as clean as I would prefer. I know preamp tubes can be changed in tube amps that may help, but here is the question: Does a pedal exist that makes a clean channel sound cleaner in tone?

No.

Allow me to explain...

“Clean” tone simply means there isn’t much distortion.

Distortion happens on an amp when the amplifier runs out of headroom, and the signal “clips,” that is, the sine waves reach the maximum level the preamp section can handle, and the tops are clipped off and become square waves.

The more volume coming from the guitar (and any pedals you’re using), the sooner the amplifier clips. If you want to clean up the tone, turn down the volume knob on your guitar.

Also, turn down the gain (sometimes the gain is labeled “volume” on a clean channel, because they’re the same thing) on the clean channel and turn up the master volume. This reduces clipping in the front end of the amp (the preamplifier section), and you can compensate for the volume loss by turning up the master volume.

There is one caveat: some amps clean up a bit if you reduce the bass. You can do it with an EQ pedal, you can do it at the amp. Bass tends to push tubes harder than higher frequencies.

But in general, turning down the volume knob on the guitar will nearly always reduce distortion, as will turning down any gain control for the clean channel, and you can compensate for the volume loss with the master volume.

Back in the old days before there were master volume or channel switching amps, the good players controlled their amps from their guitars. Turning down the volume meant a cleaner tone, turning the volume on the guitar up, the amp got dirtier. I use single channel amps, and control the gain from the guitar myself (because I’m so old that they didn’t even have schools when I was a boy, so I can’t be “old school” ;)).
 
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Not knowing the amp well, the only thing I could suggest would be something like an EQ pedal that has input and output level controls (like the MXR 10 band for example) and turning the input or output level down about 6dB then compensating with the amps volume control. If it is overdriving the pre-amp stages on the clean channel, sending a lower level signal to V1 could help.

Honestly, I’d normally say “not really” or.... “why the heck do you want cleaner?” :)
 
Often, your "Clean" tones depend a lot on the amp you have to begin with. Amps like Vox AC series, and most Fender amps, are known for their clean tones. Amps like Marshall, Blackstar, Orange, Victory, etc...are known for their "higher gain" overdriven tones. More often than not, the great "clean" amps leave a lot to be desired on the overdrive and the great overdiven amps somehow never get a "clean" as some people would like. So, sometimes, it is about buying the right amp for the sound you are looking for. Just like with guitars, not a lot of country players are playing guitars like Schecter C series with active pickups......not many thrash metal players choose a telecaster with the lipstick neck pup. It is about getting the right tool for the right job. Not necessarily modifying the tool you have to be more like something it is not.

Remeber too, that the wattage can determine how loud you can get before it starts to clip. For example, a 15 watt blues Jr can get pretty danged loud....but, it will start to clip MUCH sooner than an 85 watt Twin Reverb. So, at the same volume, the twin will be much cleaner than the blues jr even if they both can be played at the same loudness. (if that makes any since)

40 watts is plenty of headroom to not have too much distortion at pretty good volume. But, if the cleanest a clean channel will get is "not very" clean, that may be a good as you are going to do. I have a Fender Hot Rod Deville. It is 60 watts. Not many people push that clean channel to the point of clipping even when playing small venue gigs. And, for the price point, it is one of the nicer clean tones I have found. The tradeoff is that I must use pedals to get a good overdriven sound out of it. Because Fender's focus is on great, chimey clean tones. The overdrive is not all that good.

Not telling you what to do, but you could probably sell that club 40 for about 350 or 400 on craigslist, and then buy a hot rod deluxe (which is also forty watts but is more geared towards clean tones) for the same price.

Whatever happens, let us know what you do and how it worked out for you.
 
Also, this IS a PRS forum....so I have to mention, I also have an SE 50 that has plenty of clean headroom and pretty good reverb that gives it a nice shimmer on the clean channel. You can find them used for about 500 or so. You may can look into that as well. :D
 
Headroom...period. I’d look at something like the PRS Dallas series or the Fender Twin. You can tweak the preamp tube compliment to lower the gain response, but ultimately, it boils down to the power stage and it’s transformer(s). Once you get the right amp, you’ll instantly know. Good luck!
 
I should note that my earlier post assumes you’d not want a new amp.

Also, while a high power output section will add to headroom, the gain staging on many preamp sections will lead to earlier saturation and clipping. A Marshall doesn’t just clip in its power section, for example. It’ll saturate and clip in the preamp tubes very quickly because the preamp’s design is such that it doesn’t have much headroom compared to, say, a Fender style amp’s preamp section.

If you’re really in the market for a clean amp, they’re out there! Check out something like a JMOD or Two-Rock and you’ll get a good example of a very sophisticated clean channel that’ll stay clean under pressure. You’ll also spend a boatload of dough, but for lots of players it’s worth the expense.

But for the hairless clean tone you’re after, you may have the wrong amp, not because it isn’t 100 Watts, but because of the design of its preamp.

As both OP and Boogie mention, you could switch to lower output preamp tubes, though that may change the character of the tone as well as the headroom.
 
No.

Allow me to explain...

“Clean” tone simply means there isn’t much distortion.

Distortion happens on an amp when the amplifier runs out of headroom, and the signal “clips,” that is, the sine waves reach the maximum level the preamp section can handle, and the tops are clipped off and become square waves.

The more volume coming from the guitar (and any pedals you’re using), the sooner the amplifier clips. If you want to clean up the tone, turn down the volume knob on your guitar.

Also, turn down the gain (sometimes the gain is labeled “volume” on a clean channel, because they’re the same thing) on the clean channel and turn up the master volume. This reduces clipping in the front end of the amp (the preamplifier section), and you can compensate for the volume loss by turning up the master volume.

There is one caveat: some amps clean up a bit if you reduce the bass. You can do it with an EQ pedal, you can do it at the amp. Bass tends to push tubes harder than higher frequencies.

But in general, turning down the volume knob on the guitar will nearly always reduce distortion, as will turning down any gain control for the clean channel, and you can compensate for the volume loss with the master volume.

Back in the old days before there were master volume or channel switching amps, the good players controlled their amps from their guitars. Turning down the volume meant a cleaner tone, turning the volume on the guitar up, the amp got dirtier. I use single channel amps, and control the gain from the guitar myself (because I’m so old that they didn’t even have schools when I was a boy, so I can’t be “old school” ;)).

Fantastic response! Thanks for the excellent education! I'll give your two suggestions a try - turning down the bass (I like mellow tones so I usually have the Bass turned up), and turning up the master volume and lowering the volume on the guitar.
 
Not knowing the amp well, the only thing I could suggest would be something like an EQ pedal that has input and output level controls (like the MXR 10 band for example) and turning the input or output level down about 6dB then compensating with the amps volume control. If it is overdriving the pre-amp stages on the clean channel, sending a lower level signal to V1 could help.

Honestly, I’d normally say “not really” or.... “why the heck do you want cleaner?” :)

I've never tried an EQ pedal. I looked up the price for the MXR 10 band and it isn't that expensive. Does it really make that much difference in tone and is it easy to dial in?

Good question . . . why cleaner? I guess because I have a Stratocaster too, and they are known for their clean sound. Or, maybe it's just the Fender amp that they are often played through! Another reason is that the clean channel on the Blackstar has a crunch button, so I expect the clean channel to be clean when the crunch button is disengaged.
 
Often, your "Clean" tones depend a lot on the amp you have to begin with. Amps like Vox AC series, and most Fender amps, are known for their clean tones. Amps like Marshall, Blackstar, Orange, Victory, etc...are known for their "higher gain" overdriven tones. More often than not, the great "clean" amps leave a lot to be desired on the overdrive and the great overdiven amps somehow never get a "clean" as some people would like. So, sometimes, it is about buying the right amp for the sound you are looking for. Just like with guitars, not a lot of country players are playing guitars like Schecter C series with active pickups......not many thrash metal players choose a telecaster with the lipstick neck pup. It is about getting the right tool for the right job. Not necessarily modifying the tool you have to be more like something it is not.

Remeber too, that the wattage can determine how loud you can get before it starts to clip. For example, a 15 watt blues Jr can get pretty danged loud....but, it will start to clip MUCH sooner than an 85 watt Twin Reverb. So, at the same volume, the twin will be much cleaner than the blues jr even if they both can be played at the same loudness. (if that makes any since)

40 watts is plenty of headroom to not have too much distortion at pretty good volume. But, if the cleanest a clean channel will get is "not very" clean, that may be a good as you are going to do. I have a Fender Hot Rod Deville. It is 60 watts. Not many people push that clean channel to the point of clipping even when playing small venue gigs. And, for the price point, it is one of the nicer clean tones I have found. The tradeoff is that I must use pedals to get a good overdriven sound out of it. Because Fender's focus is on great, chimey clean tones. The overdrive is not all that good.

Not telling you what to do, but you could probably sell that club 40 for about 350 or 400 on craigslist, and then buy a hot rod deluxe (which is also forty watts but is more geared towards clean tones) for the same price.

Whatever happens, let us know what you do and how it worked out for you.

Yeah, you're right. Amps do have their specific purposes. I just want an amp that does all things well. Ha! You know, like plenty of headroom, very clean tone, fantastic distortion with excellent distortion at low volume, strong and rich reverb, moderate weight, built-in delay, blue-tooth, lettering and numbers in large print, and a built-in coffee holder on the top . . . all in a tube amp!!! OK, I can do without blue-tooth and the coffee holder.
 
Also, this IS a PRS forum....so I have to mention, I also have an SE 50 that has plenty of clean headroom and pretty good reverb that gives it a nice shimmer on the clean channel. You can find them used for about 500 or so. You may can look into that as well. :D

I'm impressed by what I read about the PRS amps. I haven't heard one or played through one and would like to do that. I wish I could afford a Mesa Amp. A friend of mine swears by them!
 
Yeah, you're right. Amps do have their specific purposes. I just want an amp that does all things well. Ha! You know, like plenty of headroom, very clean tone, fantastic distortion with excellent distortion at low volume, strong and rich reverb, moderate weight, built-in delay, blue-tooth, lettering and numbers in large print, and a built-in coffee holder on the top . . . all in a tube amp!!! OK, I can do without blue-tooth and the coffee holder.
For me, I like to start with the cleans.....There are a million ways to dirty up a tone. But the clean is the foundation for it all as far as I am concerned. Budgetary constraints always play a factor for me as well. Which can be limiting, but I like to focus on the cleans and pedal up my dirt. That is just me though. The amps that "do it all" tend to be in that ridiculous price range. lol
 
Headroom...period. I’d look at something like the PRS Dallas series or the Fender Twin. You can tweak the preamp tube compliment to lower the gain response, but ultimately, it boils down to the power stage and it’s transformer(s). Once you get the right amp, you’ll instantly know. Good luck!

Which amp of the two you that you mention above would you prefer if you owned a 60th Anniversary Stratocaser and a PRS S2 Custom 24?
 
I should note that my earlier post assumes you’d not want a new amp.

Also, while a high power output section will add to headroom, the gain staging on many preamp sections will lead to earlier saturation and clipping. A Marshall doesn’t just clip in its power section, for example. It’ll saturate and clip in the preamp tubes very quickly because the preamp’s design is such that it doesn’t have much headroom compared to, say, a Fender style amp’s preamp section.

If you’re really in the market for a clean amp, they’re out there! Check out something like a JMOD or Two-Rock and you’ll get a good example of a very sophisticated clean channel that’ll stay clean under pressure. You’ll also spend a boatload of dough, but for lots of players it’s worth the expense.

But for the hairless clean tone you’re after, you may have the wrong amp, not because it isn’t 100 Watts, but because of the design of its preamp.

As both OP and Boogie mention, you could switch to lower output preamp tubes, though that may change the character of the tone as well as the headroom.

I like my Blackstar because I don't have to use as many pedals and I love the distortion. I can't do without good distortion. I'm only using a delay with the Blackstar currently. For a while I ran about 8 pedals with other amps. So, my leaning is to keep the Blackstar for now. I didn't realize that using a lower output preamp tube could change the character of the tone as well as the headroom. Thanks for mentioning that, because I was thinking about changing the preamp tube as my next move with the Blackstar. First, I want to try your earlier two suggestions.
 
Which amp of the two you that you mention above would you prefer if you owned a 60th Anniversary Stratocaser and a PRS S2 Custom 24?

Well hold on a sec... what is your general playing environment? Are you playing at home in your office/basement etc? Playing with a band and trying to get over drums and bass? Both? Neither? That's important. A Fender Twin for example is really, really loud for home use. A Deluxe Reverb would provide a fantastic clean sound for that type of environment and could get over a band in a small gig. I have two of them and they are still my favorite clean amp. Ultimately though, there are a ton of options, but more info will get you better responses. Or drive down to ATL and you can play through all of my amps in my basement... haha!
 
Yeah, you're right. Amps do have their specific purposes. I just want an amp that does all things well. Ha! You know, like plenty of headroom, very clean tone, fantastic distortion with excellent distortion at low volume, strong and rich reverb, moderate weight, built-in delay, blue-tooth, lettering and numbers in large print, and a built-in coffee holder on the top . . . all in a tube amp!!! OK, I can do without blue-tooth and the coffee holder.
This is where I was after playing a Fender Twin II for about 5 years. Got tired of crappy pedals (the mid/late 80s weren’t the golden age of stompboxes) and constantly not being impressed with my tone. That’s when I bought my Mesa/Boogie. It touted 3 channels (that was an amazing feat for the time) and promised to simplify and perfect my sound, which it did. The clean channel is beautiful with tons of headroom, ch2 has great crunch and takes dirt pedals like a champ, and ch3 is pure Boogie with blistering gain. I never played the Twin at a gig again. In fact, it was sold to a Russian collector a few years ago and remains as the only piece of gear (other than pedals) I’ve ever sold. Zero remorse. Moral of the story: if you’re not 120% happy with how you sound, change things up drastically until you are.

Here are a couple of examples of tone settings I’ve used with my Fenders:

First, the Twin II...
twin-tone.jpg


Then the Bassman...
bassman100.jpg


Master was usually at about 5, so it was loud!
 
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Moral of the story: if you’re not 120% happy with how you sound, change things up drastically until you are.

^^THIS^^

Too often, not just with music, but with life, I got bogged down in trying to "make" something work......Instead of making a change to something that ALREADY works. Sometimes there is a since of satisfaction by taking what is given to you and somehow manipulating it to work for you. BUT, there is also a certain "freedom" in just having what works as is.
 
I like my Blackstar because I don't have to use as many pedals and I love the distortion. I can't do without good distortion. I'm only using a delay with the Blackstar currently. For a while I ran about 8 pedals with other amps. So, my leaning is to keep the Blackstar for now. I didn't realize that using a lower output preamp tube could change the character of the tone as well as the headroom. Thanks for mentioning that, because I was thinking about changing the preamp tube as my next move with the Blackstar. First, I want to try your earlier two suggestions.

The lower output preamp tubes will likely change the character of the amp, because on many two channel amps, the preamp tubes get shared for various functions. So, change one, and you’ve not only changed the clean channel, but the gain channel.

The gain channel might be adjusted by simply cranking the gain higher, or might not work as well. In either case, tube substitutions can often change the tone character, too.

If it was me, I’d stick with the Blackstar and make it work, because it’s a good amp, and you already own the thing. If you have a buffer, or a buffered pedal, at the beginning of your pedalboard signal chain, it’ll help preserve high frequencies going to your amp. You might want to turn up the treble control or presence, or both, if you find rolling off the guitar volume not bright enough for your taste.

I use an EQ pedal sometimes so that I can get very crisp clean tones when I want the HXDA to be clean by rolling down the guitar volume (being a Marshall style amp, it breaks up and gets dirty pretty quickly) and it works great. There are times I’ll roll the volume on a PRS down to 3 or 4. You get a nice clean tone that way. So I’ll increase the highs a little, and also cut the bass, with the pedal.

However, I generally run the guitar at around 5-7 because I like a little grit in my clean tone. There are many times I’ll literally zero out the amp and start completely from scratch just to force myself not to be lazy when dialing in the sound I want. It’s so easy to forget that the amp controls are really quite powerful!

Point is, you can most likely find what you’re looking for if you’re willing to turn the knobs on the guitar and the amp and experiment a bit! :)
 
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For me, I like to start with the cleans.....There are a million ways to dirty up a tone. But the clean is the foundation for it all as far as I am concerned. Budgetary constraints always play a factor for me as well. Which can be limiting, but I like to focus on the cleans and pedal up my dirt. That is just me though. The amps that "do it all" tend to be in that ridiculous price range. lol

Good point! I hadn't thought of it that way. My problem is that I would have to try out 25 distortion pedals to decide on which one is the best! It has taken me a year-and-a-half to determine which two guitars I wanted. Ker-ching!!!
 
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