CITES Appendix II

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Shawn@PRS, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. Whitecat

    Whitecat Goes home to Starla

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    So has Nik Huber. I've played them and they are awesome. If PRS did a run of guitars with it I would absolutely give them a fair shot.
     
  2. django49

    django49 New Member

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    "Necessity is the mother of invention."

    As is (well, WAS) Frank Zappa.
     
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  3. Lee B.

    Lee B. I stitch my wings and pull the strings.

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    Yeah, Godin makes a LP style with a Spanish cedar back, big leaf top, and a richlite board. Haven't gotten to try one myself but online reviews I read were positive. Be kinda cool if PRS dipped their toes in the water.
     
  4. Michael_DK

    Michael_DK New Member

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    They should continue the GOM with SEcGOM - SE line Cites Guitar of the Month - and gauge the reaction in the market :)
     
  5. jfb

    jfb New Member

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    I just read heard about this through a YouTube channel I frequent. Decided to come here and see if it was posted somewhere.
     
  6. alantig

    alantig Santana-free since '63!

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    You should come around here more often. It's kind of a happenin' place.
     
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  7. Duffy

    Duffy New Member

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    The Chinese high end furniture companies are using incredible amounts of rosewood as demanded by their growing middle class. Guitars are using a much smaller fraction of the harvested rosewood.
     
  8. Duffy

    Duffy New Member

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    And importing raw rosewood to make the guitars.
     
  9. Shawn@PRS

    Shawn@PRS yogi
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    Hello everyone,


    We mentioned in our original post on this thread that we would update here as new information became available. In light of some recent industry news, now felt like a good time to share how PRS has handled the transition of working with these new regulations.


    When PRS first heard that Dalbergia (rosewood) was going to become protected under CITES Appendix II, we immediately contacted the appropriate governing bodies so we could fully understand the situation. PRS is not new to dealing with CITES and other trade regulations, so we already had a great working relationship with those agencies, including US Fish and Wildlife and the USDA/APHIS. We invited these agencies, who were also at that time trying to figure out how to enforce the CITES ruling, to PRS and had an open and fruitful chat with them. A worthwhile note here: these agencies did not create this regulation, but they are in charge of enacting and enforcing it just as we are responsible for fully complying with it. Because we acted and communicated with these agencies promptly, we were actually able to help them better understand how these woods are used in musical instrument manufacturing and to help define how this new program could work. The agencies also visited at least one other manufacturer on this trip. Long story short, we were able to have very open communication that helped PRS to grow its already robust compliance program to include these new species classifications. It also put us “first in line” for the necessary permits and procedures, so there was very little disruption to our manufacturing line and delivery times. Our partnership with FWS and USDA/APHIS continues to be strong and very cooperative.


    That said and in light of some recent industry news, we would like to let everyone here know that we continue to design and build PRS instruments with dalbergia/rosewood. Rosewood, especially East Indian rosewood, has long been considered an industry standard in the recipe of building great guitars. We have had great success with this material and continue to do so. Yes, we know of other materials that could be used in its place, such as Pau Ferro, Katalox, maple, ebony, and others, and we use these already from time to time on special runs, in Artist Package, Wood Library and Private Stock. Yes, this regulation has added some additional internal procedures for PRS. But in the end, the species is protected and the instruments we make are exactly what we want to make – because we believe in the recipe. Should we change materials in the future, it will be because we feel the instruments (and/or the resources) are best served by making a change.


    Lastly, we said we would share the link to additional resources when they were made available. Here is the link to for more information https://www.fws.gov/international/pdf/questions-and-answers-appendix-II-timber-listings-December-2016.pdf and a reminder of where you all can email to ask any specific questions you may have: managementauthority@fws.gov


    Thank you, as always, for your support of PRS Guitars.
     
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  10. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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    Good insight, thanks Shawn.
     
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  11. rugerpc

    rugerpc A♥ hoards guitars ♥A
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    Smart business is good business.
     
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  12. Alan Manning

    Alan Manning Is It A Bird ! Is It A Plane ! Nah It's Only Me!!!

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    Cheers Shawn, thanks for the update.!!!
     
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  13. JonW

    JonW Super green

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    Thanks for the update Shawn!
     
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  14. alantig

    alantig Santana-free since '63!

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    Thanks, Shawn.
     
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  15. ]-[@n$0Ma☩!©

    ]-[@n$0Ma☩!© Der Hans der kann's

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    Thanks Shawn. While we're on the subject, is it possible to obtain CITES paperwork for guitars we've already purchased? Given that I will need to get a few guitars back into the USA when I leave Germany, my concern is growing.

    My apologies if you have answers this question elsewhere and I missed it.
     
  16. Shawn@PRS

    Shawn@PRS yogi
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    Unfortunately we can't supply CITES paperwork to consumers. Sorry. If you have any questions, hit up the US Fish and Wildlife Services. They've been very helpful through all of this. managementauthority@fws.gov
     
  17. Guitarsan

    Guitarsan "I floor it. That’s technical talk." SRV

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    It's not good to go if it's being sold and that's what's causing the border crossing. (I realize you said personal, but just providing this information.)
     
    #37 Guitarsan, Jun 28, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  18. Guitarsan

    Guitarsan "I floor it. That’s technical talk." SRV

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    So I'm going through a situation now (it's a PITA, so it's a situation). Bought a new PRS guitar from Thomann in Germany. I'm in the U.S. Since it's a commercial transaction, they must apply to the German government for a re-export CITES permit. They're saying this will take 6 to 8 weeks, in their experience. Before they can ship.

    On my receiving side, according to the answer to question 52 here: https://www.fws.gov/international/p...appendix-II-timber-listings-December-2016.pdf it says I don't have to apply for an import permit, as the guitar has Madagascar rosewood (Appendix II, not Appendix I. i.e. Brazilian) on the fretboard and headstock inlay. So at least I have that going for me, which is nice.
     
  19. Whitecat

    Whitecat Goes home to Starla

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    Careful with that second part - I suspect you need a Lacey Act permit for all rosewoods now (Appendix II as well). And I think this is since December 2016 so I would check for more recent info. Someone on a PRS Facebook group bought a PRS SE from the UK for US delivery a couple months ago and needed said permit because of the Indian rosewood.

    Things are never simple....
     
  20. Guitarsan

    Guitarsan "I floor it. That’s technical talk." SRV

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    Right you are, I've been checking more and after talking to a contact at US Dept of Agriculture, it appears I was really wrong. At this point, I need to apply for a 621 Protected Plant CITES import permit, and file two declarations, a Lacey Act Form 505 (both of these for the rosewood) and a Fish and Wildlife form 3-177 (for the mother of pearl). I'll document what ultimately I have to do later on this thread.
     
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