Champ, Princeton, Clones and Look-A-Likes Rabbit Hole

[aamefford]

So, I want to "look at" the little Fender rabbit hole. I don't want to jump down it just yet. What I'm looking for, more or less, is a small, "low power" combo. It should be:

Needs:
Light
Small
Nice "Fender type Cleans"
Good Overdrive type sound
Capable of the Blowing up as you play it cranked Tweed-ish "My, My, Hey, Hey" sound
Takes drive modulation and time pedals well
Cool looking if possible
Not preciously priced like the Clapton Champ, vintage champs and Princetons, etc. I don't want to spend cork sniffer money on this one.

Like to have:
DI or line out
Attenuator or power scaling or something so I don't have to scorch the earth around me to get the cool sounds
IR Loader

Other stuff:
Could be a Fender
Could be a Tone Maser or tubes
Could be a small or large "other maker"
Could be a PRS?
Could be new, could be used, could be old, would be nice if any refurb work was already done.

So, what have ya'll got for recommendations of things I should look at?

 

[Maertl513]

I recommend a tiny solution:
- A Barefaced cab with one or two Jensen C10R
- And a flexible amp. First I would recommend a BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition, 1.2kg, four channels, very efficient EQ, BUT it has 100W.

Therefore I revise the speaker:
- Barefaced Reformer 112 with a
- 12" Jensen Jet Series Electric Lightning (100W, 16/8Ohm) or a
- 12" Weber 12A125 (100W optionally).

 

[RickP]

One thought that opened some doors for me wasn’t a new amp, but a new amp accessory. Purchasing a UA Ox Box allowed me to take amps like my old Super Reverb or 50 watt HX/DA and turn them to that “wake the neighbors in the next block” sweet spot, then either turn it down to a good place, run it through an IR (the Ox has some great UA cabs), listen through headphones, or do it all at the same time. I originally bought new, sold it when I didn’t think I still needed it (I did), and then bought a used one for $750. In other words, $750 can make all of your amps “low power.” It’s a super-cool, a super sounding, recording option as well.

Another great option is the Fryette PS-100. In addition to taming larger amps, it can also boost the volume of small amps! Very cool concept, with typical Fryette build quality. Neither are “cheap” options, but they’re in the same area as a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb, let’s say, and once you have it, you have control of every amp you own, or any you ever buy.

So, not really a direct fit to your query, but an outside-the-box option to look into. It didn’t feel as sexy as a new amp, I admit. It’s more like a good cast iron skillet… it takes the right friend to show it off to but once you use one, you get attached to what it does and keep finding new ways to use it.

 

[Tony M.]

What's your budget?

 

[aamefford]

Quick responses:
1) @Maertl513 - looking specifically for a combo

2) @RickP - 100% agree. I purchased a used OG Fryette PS-2 shortly after I realized just how loud my MKv25 was. I also have a Two Notes Opus. Combined with the PS-2, it achieves the same function as the OX Box, but with more adjustable attenuation. The little Mesa has been sold. I liked the little Mesa, but I don’t want it back. I’m Looking for its replacement.

3) @Tony M. - Budget:
Ideal - $500-ish used or new

Reasonable - under $1000 new or used

Aspirational - $1500-ish. No reason for me to spend even this much on this little project.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I've been interested in a small combo for a couple years now. Chased a Dr. Z Mini Z for a while, but like most things, prices went up out of a range I'd pay for that amp. Looked at a few other Z's with 1x10 combo, but again, the inflated used prices have turned me off of that. I've considered a 1x8 or 1x10 by others like Swart or Carr... I'd like a great clean channel and a great gain channel, not high gain... Thing is, I have a Bogner ATMA and it not only sounds great, but it has a 5 watt mode. I could use it with a 1x8 or 1x10 cab and while it's not a combo, it would probably kick most of the small combo's butts. So what's the holdup? Have you priced a decent 1x10 cab lately? Literally double what they were 3-4 years ago.

I talked to my cousin about building me one (or one of each 8" and 10") and i think that's the route I'll end up going because I am just not finding anything I like for a price I'd pay for a used combo.

 

[Maertl513]

@aamefford, indeed. Please apologize.

Despite your requirement to a combo, this would be the whole arrangement. Weight, less than 10kg.

 

[aamefford]

I've been interested in a small combo for a couple years now. Chased a Dr. Z Mini Z for a while, but like most things, prices went up out of a range I'd pay for that amp. Looked at a few other Z's with 1x10 combo, but again, the inflated used prices have turned me off of that. I've considered a 1x8 or 1x10 by others like Swart or Carr... I'd like a great clean channel and a great gain channel, not high gain... Thing is, I have a Bogner ATMA and it not only sounds great, but it has a 5 watt mode. I could use it with a 1x8 or 1x10 cab and while it's not a combo, it would probably kick most of the small combo's butts. So what's the holdup? Have you priced a decent 1x10 cab lately? Literally double what they were 3-4 years ago.

I talked to my cousin about building me one (or one of each 8" and 10") and i think that's the route I'll end up going because I am just not finding anything I like for a price I'd pay for a used combo.

DTR, it sounds like we are looking for a similar physical configuration. I don’t really want to go head and cab. I could I guess with a small 1x10 or 1x8 and a small head. In either case, I’d want it to be about the same size as the mkv25, +/-, and be under 35#, even better under 30#.

I’d like it to be low power, ideally single channel so I can go from say 70-80 db really clean, and crank it to “she’s gonna blow” tones at under say 95 db, or better, with decent inbuilt attenuation. I’d like the clean to be something special, I’d like to have a nice EOB, and the cranked tone to be something rich, familiar and engaging. I’m kinda looking at the fender champ, but I’d end up needing to put an attenuator in it, or on top, or whatever, though that’s not out of the question.

What about the Mesa California tweed 1x10? Or the Fillmore 25? Both are discontinued, so they are hideously overpriced used right now. Once the “gotta have one!” Money slingers are calmed down, I figure those would get in range.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Both are discontinued, so they are hideously overpriced used right now.

WOW, I didn't know they stopped making them, but that does explain the crazy prices I've seen on them. I haven't tried either but they sure seem to both have some big fans. But the Bogner is great and VERY versatile. Way more than any combo is going to be, with a Tweed to Blackface clean channel and 3 modes on the gain channel.

 

[aamefford]

@aamefford, indeed. Please apologize.

Despite your requirement to a combo, this would be the whole arrangement. Weight, less than 10kg.

Ok, not bad. I’ve been intrigued by barefaced and bluguitar. Even used, I’m right up or beyond my price point for this project though? Lovely guitar by the way!

 

[Maertl513]

Thanks. Sure, the price is high. And especially you seek for a certain sound, then the speaker needs to be as close to your mentioned role models.

Have you put ChatGPT in charge for an educated guess?

 

[aamefford]

Have you put ChatGPT in charge for an educated guess?

No. AI = Zombie Apocalypse. Ok, kidding. Sort of. I am not yet an adopter.

 

[archtop]

The Fillmore 25 was phenomenal, what a shame it's discontinued.

The Valvulator GPDI/IR is not a combo and runs $999 but it's pretty phenomenal: 1 watt speaker out, 3 voices (clean, Pitbull, Deliverance), built in reactive load when no speaker connected, DI out for raw guitar, balanced/unbalanced outs analog speaker sim, balanced/unbalanced outs with IR's (10 Fryette IRs included). Can be used in the effects loop of another amp, can be used with external preamps w/ switching, etc. Paired with a Synergy SYM-1 desktop module you have a monster low volume and recording rig. And dialing in the Valvulator is easy and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it sound bad (even with my playing!).

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

The Fillmore 25 was phenomenal, what a shame it's discontinued.

The Valvulator GPDI/IR is not a combo and runs $999 but it's pretty phenomenal: 1 watt speaker out, 3 voices (clean, Pitbull, Deliverance), built in reactive load when no speaker connected, DI out for raw guitar, balanced/unbalanced outs analog speaker sim, balanced/unbalanced outs with IR's (10 Fryette IRs included). Can be used in the effects loop of another amp, can be used with external preamps w/ switching, etc. Paired with a Synergy SYM-1 desktop module you have a monster low volume and recording rig. And dialing in the Valvulator is easy and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it sound bad (even with my playing!).

Not to mention, makes a pretty killer complete amp setup when coupled with a Power Station.

 

[Maertl513]

ChatGPT's guessings:

"Absolutely, let's explore some excellent low-wattage Fender-style combo amps that deliver classic cleans, expressive overdrive, and are pedal-friendly—all within a $1,000 budget. Here's a curated list based on your preferences:

Fender Blues Junior IV​

Pedal-Friendly​

Price not available

Fender Pro Junior IV​

Classic Tweed Tone​

Price not available

Fender '57 Custom Champ​

Vintage Vibe​

Price not available

Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb​

Modern Features​

Price not available

Yamaha THR30 II Wireless​

Portable and Versatile​

Price not available


Top Picks Explained:

• Fender Blues Junior IV: A 15-watt all-tube amp with a Celestion A-Type speaker, offering rich Fender cleans and smooth overdrive. It's known for its pedal-friendly nature and portability, making it ideal for small gigs and home use. (en.wikipedia.org)
• Fender Pro Junior IV: This 15-watt amp delivers classic tweed tones with a bright, punchy character. It's straightforward, with minimal controls, allowing your pedals to shine through. (popsci.com)
• Fender '57 Custom Champ: A handwired 5-watt amp that captures the essence of vintage Fender tone. It's compact and responsive, ideal for achieving that "My, My, Hey, Hey" sound when cranked. (ztoog.com)
• Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb: A digital modeling amp that emulates the classic Princeton Reverb sound. It offers modern features like a built-in attenuator and DI output, making it versatile for both practice and performance.
• Yamaha THR30 II Wireless: A compact modeling amp with built-in Bluetooth and wireless capabilities. It provides a range of amp simulations and effects, suitable for practice and recording. (wired.com)

Considerations:

• Pedal Compatibility: All the listed amps handle pedals well, but the Blues Junior IV and Pro Junior IV are particularly noted for their pedal-friendly nature.
• Attenuator/Power Scaling: The Tone Master Princeton Reverb includes a built-in attenuator, allowing you to achieve cranked amp tones at lower volumes.
• Vintage Vibe: For a true vintage feel, the '57 Custom Champ offers authentic Fender tone in a compact package.(popsci.com)
• Modern Features: The Yamaha THR30 II Wireless stands out with its modern features like wireless connectivity and built-in effects, providing versatility for various playing scenarios.(wired.com)

Feel free to explore these options further to find the perfect match for your musical needs and preferences."

 

[DISTORT6]

The Fillmore 25 was phenomenal, what a shame it's discontinued.

The Valvulator GPDI/IR is not a combo and runs $999 but it's pretty phenomenal: 1 watt speaker out, 3 voices (clean, Pitbull, Deliverance), built in reactive load when no speaker connected, DI out for raw guitar, balanced/unbalanced outs analog speaker sim, balanced/unbalanced outs with IR's (10 Fryette IRs included). Can be used in the effects loop of another amp, can be used with external preamps w/ switching, etc. Paired with a Synergy SYM-1 desktop module you have a monster low volume and recording rig. And dialing in the Valvulator is easy and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it sound bad (even with my playing!).

Not to mention, makes a pretty killer complete amp setup when coupled with a Power Station.

I only have a Sig:X amp - for now - but I'm a huge fan of Fryette gear.
A ZMACS is definitely in the future for me.

 

[andy474x]

Sometimes PRS Sweet 16’s come up crazy cheap, and those might be in the vein of what you’re looking for. Often heads but they did make them as combos, too. They “blow up” in an interesting way when pushed, and aren’t excessively loud.

The current model (V2) Sonzera 20 combo is also a great little amp, perhaps not as simple as you’re seeking, but if you can get your hands on one to try, do so. Much better than the original.

Also, I think Tone King makes a small amp like this? Maybe even has the mini Ironman attenuator built in?

 

[aamefford]

The Fillmore 25 was phenomenal, what a shame it's discontinued.

The Valvulator GPDI/IR is not a combo and runs $999 but it's pretty phenomenal: 1 watt speaker out, 3 voices (clean, Pitbull, Deliverance), built in reactive load when no speaker connected, DI out for raw guitar, balanced/unbalanced outs analog speaker sim, balanced/unbalanced outs with IR's (10 Fryette IRs included). Can be used in the effects loop of another amp, can be used with external preamps w/ switching, etc. Paired with a Synergy SYM-1 desktop module you have a monster low volume and recording rig. And dialing in the Valvulator is easy and there doesn't seem to be a way to make it sound bad (even with my playing!).

@archtop that is a left field option, but interesting. It doesn’t fill the combo niche, but I’m indeed curious. Do you actually use it with a speaker? If yes, what, what type cab, etc. I’m not familiar with Fryette amps, does this cover any fender-ish ground, or is it its own thing? Since it can be used many ways, how do you typically use yours? Thanks!

 

[aamefford]

Not to mention, makes a pretty killer complete amp setup when coupled with a Power Station.

I was thinking the same thing.

ChatGPT's guessings:

"Absolutely, let's explore some excellent low-wattage Fender-style combo amps that deliver classic cleans, expressive overdrive, and are pedal-friendly—all within a $1,000 budget. Here's a curated list based on your preferences:

Fender Blues Junior IV​

Pedal-Friendly​

Price not available

Fender Pro Junior IV​

Classic Tweed Tone​

Price not available

Fender '57 Custom Champ​

Vintage Vibe​

Price not available

Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb​

Modern Features​

Price not available

Yamaha THR30 II Wireless​

Portable and Versatile​

Price not available


Top Picks Explained:

• Fender Blues Junior IV: A 15-watt all-tube amp with a Celestion A-Type speaker, offering rich Fender cleans and smooth overdrive. It's known for its pedal-friendly nature and portability, making it ideal for small gigs and home use. (en.wikipedia.org)
• Fender Pro Junior IV: This 15-watt amp delivers classic tweed tones with a bright, punchy character. It's straightforward, with minimal controls, allowing your pedals to shine through. (popsci.com)
• Fender '57 Custom Champ: A handwired 5-watt amp that captures the essence of vintage Fender tone. It's compact and responsive, ideal for achieving that "My, My, Hey, Hey" sound when cranked. (ztoog.com)
• Fender Tone Master Princeton Reverb: A digital modeling amp that emulates the classic Princeton Reverb sound. It offers modern features like a built-in attenuator and DI output, making it versatile for both practice and performance.
• Yamaha THR30 II Wireless: A compact modeling amp with built-in Bluetooth and wireless capabilities. It provides a range of amp simulations and effects, suitable for practice and recording. (wired.com)

Considerations:

• Pedal Compatibility: All the listed amps handle pedals well, but the Blues Junior IV and Pro Junior IV are particularly noted for their pedal-friendly nature.
• Attenuator/Power Scaling: The Tone Master Princeton Reverb includes a built-in attenuator, allowing you to achieve cranked amp tones at lower volumes.
• Vintage Vibe: For a true vintage feel, the '57 Custom Champ offers authentic Fender tone in a compact package.(popsci.com)
• Modern Features: The Yamaha THR30 II Wireless stands out with its modern features like wireless connectivity and built-in effects, providing versatility for various playing scenarios.(wired.com)

Feel free to explore these options further to find the perfect match for your musical needs and preferences."

@Maertl513 , thanks for doing that. Hopefully the zombie apocalypse hasn’t been unleashed!

I only have an Sig:X amp - for now - but I'm a huge fan of Fryette gear.
A ZMACS is definitely in the future for me.

I’m a Fryette fan as well. Lots of multi-purpose problem solvers along with what appear to be killer amps. Plus he’s one of us, and by that I mean mildly grumpy elder statesmen.

Sometimes PRS Sweet 16’s come up crazy cheap, and those might be in the vein of what you’re looking for. Often heads but they did make them as combos, too. They “blow up” in an interesting way when pushed, and aren’t excessively loud.

The current model (V2) Sonzera 20 combo is also a great little amp, perhaps not as simple as you’re seeking, but if you can get your hands on one to try, do so. Much better than the original.

Also, I think Tone King makes a small amp like this? Maybe even has the mini Ironman attenuator built in?

There’s a sweet 16 that pops up on CL locally. Whomever owns it seems pretty proud of it though. I think he’s asking around $900.

 

[andy474x]

There’s a sweet 16 that pops up on CL locally. Whomever owns it seems pretty proud of it though. I think he’s asking around $900.

Value-wise, that's a steal - OG Maryland made CAD era amp for $900, but I get what you're saying. A lot of those older PRS amps are under the radar and sell low due to lack of demand. You might be able to talk him down if he'll take offers. Used market is weak right now.