CE pups

Chip Burns

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Joined
Jun 29, 2019
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I just bought a used 2018 CE 24 with what I assume are 85/15s. What I've found is what seems to me to be a substantial amount of hum that gets squelched when I ground the bridge, strings, plug etc. by touching them with my palm. This doesn't seem normal but I took it to a luthier and was told it was because the pups are exposed (no covers). Does this sound right to you guys?

BTW I also have a Les Paul, a Santana SE and a 594, all of which have covered pups and none of which have the same hum.

Looking forward to feedback from the group,

Thanks
 
That doesn’t sound right to me. I’ve never noticed a substantial difference between covered and uncovered pickups when it comes to hum. Sounds like you have a grounding issue.
 
I've opened up both control cavities and can't see anything obviously wrong. The hum goes away as I roll off the tone pot to bass and is eventually gone when the tone pot it all the way bass,
 
I'm having the same problem with a new SE Paul's guitar. I'm wondering if the shielding of the cavities is not sufficiently grounded. Taking it in today to have a trusted tech check it out.
 
Back from the Tech. Guitar checks out OK as far as grounding issues. Did not buzz nearly as much at his place (of course!). He felt what he heard was an acceptable amount of hum for a humbucker. Posited that perhaps it was "noisy" power supply. That makes sense in that I've taken it a couple places now where it did not buzz.

So I brought it home, plugged into outlets on different circuits and it still buzzed. No fluorescents or rheostats were in use. I was using a Vox Adio for these tests, so I unplugged and switched over to battery and voila...no hum. So maybe it is our power out here in the sticks.

I have an SE standard Santana (uncovered PU's) that's dead quiet, and a Telecaster that's as quiet as a Telecaster can be, so I'm not sure why the Paul's buzzes and the others don't. Maybe the TCI pick ups are more sensitive to that kind of thing.

Kip
 
Thanks for the thorough review. I think your experiment w/ battery power is the most informative.

I think the electrical environment in my home is pretty bad too which would confirm your battery experiment.

I'd add that when I removed the 2 cavity covers (trem & controls) last night I don't recall seeing any shielding. I was looking for questionable solder joints; wasn't thinking about shielding at the time, so this is just me trying to remember what I saw (I'm at work right now).

I'm going to a 2nd tech myself this evening. Will get him to check out resistances and review the inside of the cavities with him.

Will get back to you later this evening.

Thanks again for your helpful info.

Chip
 
Thanks gush, yes that's what I looked for when I removed the trem cavity cover and that solder joint looked solid & pristine, i.e. original factory solder joint, not re-worked.
 
Buddy of mine had an electrician out for a day to try and track down the cause of his hum. Turned out to be the the wireless thing the water company attached to do meter reads remotely.
 
Holy Sh*t Sherlock!!! No kidding bodia? I think that would produce more "hash" than "hum", more like white noise, which is a better description of what I'm hearing than the "hmmmmmm...." of 60-cycle
 
Back from the Tech. Guitar checks out OK as far as grounding issues. Did not buzz nearly as much at his place (of course!). He felt what he heard was an acceptable amount of hum for a humbucker. Posited that perhaps it was "noisy" power supply. That makes sense in that I've taken it a couple places now where it did not buzz.

So I brought it home, plugged into outlets on different circuits and it still buzzed. No fluorescents or rheostats were in use. I was using a Vox Adio for these tests, so I unplugged and switched over to battery and voila...no hum. So maybe it is our power out here in the sticks.

I have an SE standard Santana (uncovered PU's) that's dead quiet, and a Telecaster that's as quiet as a Telecaster can be, so I'm not sure why the Paul's buzzes and the others don't. Maybe the TCI pick ups are more sensitive to that kind of thing.

Kip

Kip,

You were saying you used Vox Adio...you may have a faulty power supply adaptor. Reason for my saying so is that a power adaptor can be faulty; solution is swap out to a new power adaptor. (Just checked the Adio specs...19VDC is an unusual number that is unlikely replicated in isolated and dedicated power supplies...)

Another possibility you had mentioned is that the Paul's pickups might have higher ohm resistance values that contributes to the hum (will let others chime in on this as my knowledge of various pickup resistance values is slim to nil...)

If perhaps you're dissatisfied with the hum and can't determine what's causing the problem, a pickup swap might be in your future...
 
Good thought about the power supply but,...I take the Adio to my lesson, and plugged in there it was dead quiet. In addition, the buzz is present when I play through my Orange Crush. So, I think it's the guitar reacting to my house power supply. Why my other guitars don't buzz and this one does...I don't know.

The buzz doesn't ruin the guitar for me by any means. It still sounds good, looks good, and feels good. The workmanship is fantastic with no visible flaws. The only negative is the tuning key buttons. The tuners work fine but the buttons feel cheap and "plasticy", but that's an easy fix.

Anywhooo, I appreciate the input from everyone, and am interested to find out what Chip comes up with.

Kip
 
So I took my CE to my buddy's guitar store last night. Our conclusion is that the hum/buzz problem is almost entirely environment dependent.

We used his Les Paul and my CE, my Bassman combo and his Traynor combo and moved all over the store trying to see what happened. In the end both the Les Paul and the CE hummed/buzzed to varying degrees depending upon where we were in the store. In his repair shop (no fluorescent lights) both guitars were pretty much dead quiet. In the showroom (big neon lights) both guitars buzzed/hummed a good deal and about the same amount.

The Les Paul was a little quieter than the CE but we surmised that:

- The 85/15s were a bit hotter than his PAFs.
- The PAFs have covers

I hasten to add that both these are speculations but more importantly the CE was only marginally noisier than the Les Paul.

The effect of moving to various spaces within the store had a much more dramatic effect.

This is not to say that conditioning the power into the amp has no effect. It probably does but we didn't have that kind of equipment to perform that test (reference Kip's experience).

At any rate our experience was that the environment produced 80-90% of the hum/buzz.

I've concluded that there's nothing amiss with my uncovered 85/15 CE pups.

Hope this is useful to you guys.
 
Good thought about the power supply but,...I take the Adio to my lesson, and plugged in there it was dead quiet. In addition, the buzz is present when I play through my Orange Crush. So, I think it's the guitar reacting to my house power supply. Why my other guitars don't buzz and this one does...I don't know.

The buzz doesn't ruin the guitar for me by any means. It still sounds good, looks good, and feels good. The workmanship is fantastic with no visible flaws. The only negative is the tuning key buttons. The tuners work fine but the buttons feel cheap and "plasticy", but that's an easy fix.

Anywhooo, I appreciate the input from everyone, and am interested to find out what Chip comes up with.

Kip

In that case, yes, it does sound like your house line power is what is called "unfiltered" or "dirty." Furman makes a decent power conditioner (I use a Monster PRO 2500, no longer in production and cost-prohibitive now) that will help "clean up" unfiltered power *somewhat* and help reduce your pesky 60-cycle hum...

If perhaps you're not running a lot of devices, a simple power conditioner / strip will help you. $39 and change. It's not radically different, but will do the job.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SS6Block--furman-ss-6b-6-outlet-power-strip
 
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Candid Picker thanks for the tips.

Chip, I think we've come to the same conclusion...thanks for your write up. I contacted PRS and Sean promptly replied stating that the TCI S pick ups are vintage style and not noiseless. His suggestion mirrored Candid Picker's advice to look into line conditioning stuff. Also suggested lowering the pick ups.

Kip
 
Holy Sh*t Sherlock!!! No kidding bodia? I think that would produce more "hash" than "hum", more like white noise, which is a better description of what I'm hearing than the "hmmmmmm...." of 60-cycle

Actually, "hash" may be a better description, assuming we're not talking about the "under glass" variety :p. It was more white noise (or noisy pickup) like. The thingy is in his wall, so he has to live with it. If you're on that side of the room, and turn your body it gets better. Stay on the other side of the room, it's barely noticeable. I seem to recall that it was worse with single coils than humbuckers. I might be wrong about that.
 
Actually, "hash" may be a better description, assuming we're not talking about the "under glass" variety :p. It was more white noise (or noisy pickup) like. The thingy is in his wall, so he has to live with it. If you're on that side of the room, and turn your body it gets better. Stay on the other side of the room, it's barely noticeable. I seem to recall that it was worse with single coils than humbuckers. I might be wrong about that.

Some standard single-coil guitars are notoriously noisy when standing closer to your amp. Especially with a boost or overdrive/distortion pedal on. (Mr Obvious, yup) Solution was to sit or stand as far away as possible, facing away if necessary, to mitigate hiss or hum.

My former basement music room handled the task well. Had the amp and effects on one circuit, my computer recording and audio gear on another. Overhead lighting on a 3rd. The room was designed that way because of previous knowledge with line power, pickup hiss/hum, and 2-prong outlet grounding concerns.

When the room was rebuilt, all new outlets, studs and wallboard, overhead pot lights and stage LED track lighting, and 3 circuit breakers feeding the electrical lines. Cost a bit upfront, but fulfilled its purpose, and provided about 10 years of enjoyable cool times during warm summer months and warmth during winter because of the ventilated adjoining furnace room.
 
Kip,

"TCI S"? I think those are only on the SE guitars, yes? Not sure what you meant, I've got a CE w/ 85/15s
 
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