CE intonation shift

musicroom

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Jun 12, 2020
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I have a 2021 PRS CE that had an intonation shift primarily on the EAD strings. The shift is drastic to the point I had to remove the saddle spring on the "D" string in order to get the intonation correct. This is a regularly played guitar, well maintained with regular string changes. It's had a NOS2000 Mann bridge on the guitar for months with no issues. The saddle appears to be normal looking, the bridge appears have the same height and looks normal. Puzzled by the this intonation ghost. Any ideas appreciated.
 
No saddle spring on the D string? Wow. I’ve seen and done it in the low E. But never on the others. Are you sure the bridge was installed correctly? What tuning are you in and gauge strings do you use? Can you show us photos of the bridge from the top and sides. Maybe then we can help you out.
 
Thank you for offering to inspect this bridge setup and offer suggestions.

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You're not being a pain at all. I feel like I'm chasing a ghost.

Yes - I changed strings hoping that was the cause - it wasn't.
 
Just a couple of quick thoughts, what is the action on the guitar low? Or? Neck relief normal? And a past ghost for me pickup height, to close to the strings will screw with the intonation. How are you doing the intonation @ the 12th fret, light touch….. these are all just thinking out loud.
 
Just a couple of quick thoughts, what is the action on the guitar low? Or? Neck relief normal? And a past ghost for me pickup height, to close to the strings will screw with the intonation. How are you doing the intonation @ the 12th fret, light touch….. these are all just thinking out loud.
Absolutely solid suggestions, duh on me as I've experienced them all at one point or other.
 
Just a couple of quick thoughts, what is the action on the guitar low? Or? Neck relief normal? And a past ghost for me pickup height, to close to the strings will screw with the intonation. How are you doing the intonation @ the 12th fret, light touch….. these are all just thinking out loud.


I will definitely take a look at the pickup height. I do have them semi close to the strings. Also, the action is medium as a general way to explain. Not low at all.
 
Just a couple of quick thoughts, what is the action on the guitar low? Or? Neck relief normal? And a past ghost for me pickup height, to close to the strings will screw with the intonation. How are you doing the intonation @ the 12th fret, light touch….. these are all just thinking out loud.

Forgot to address neck relief - checked that immediately. That was my first ghost suspect. It was within spec. I was hoping it was not. :)
 
are you positive the bridge was installed correctly when it came time to screw down the tremolo screws? I know John puts a hex key to help guide the height of the screw to tighten appropriately. I love Mann's bridge and never had one with such issue but anything is possible. How many tremolo springs do you have installed?
Also your action seems quite low on the higher gauge strings. I find it near impossible to have the low E saddle nearly touching the plate compared to the high E.
Somewhere on YouTube there's a whole PRS setup guide to make sure action and string heights are correct.
 
are you positive the bridge was installed correctly when it came time to screw down the tremolo screws? I know John puts a hex key to help guide the height of the screw to tighten appropriately. I love Mann's bridge and never had one with such issue but anything is possible. How many tremolo springs do you have installed?
Also your action seems quite low on the higher gauge strings. I find it near impossible to have the low E saddle nearly touching the plate compared to the high E.
Somewhere on YouTube there's a whole PRS setup guide to make sure action and string heights are correct.

Mann bridge installation question - my best answer is I think I've installed it correctly. I used John's method with the hex key for gauging screw height. It's was my third time installing one of these nos2000's with no issues like this prior. BTW - this bridge has been installed for months with no problems - this whole intonation issue just popped up. Puzzling problem.

I have 4 tremolo springs installed.

Maybe... I need to take another look at the bridge screws. Something could have shifted there. My string height on the neck is very average - not high, not low. But if you're noticing something at the saddles, then maybe I do have a bride installation problem.

I also lowered my pickups last night to see if that was the root cause. Didn't change anything unfortunately.


Thanks!
 
Frets look good, no sprout or pop-ups? Not getting any buzz? Stick a straight edge on those puppies.

If you don't get this resolved soon I'm going to cry!
 
Frets look good, no sprout or pop-ups? Not getting any buzz? Stick a straight edge on those puppies.

If you don't get this resolved soon I'm going to cry!


That's funny! :) I did straight edge the frets. They look great. Note the guitar less than a year old. I may need to send this to higher power guitar tech other than myself. I'm good with the rewiring stuff, apparently below average in the hardware dept.
 
That's funny! :) I did straight edge the frets. They look great. Note the guitar less than a year old. I may need to send this to higher power guitar tech other than myself. I'm good with the rewiring stuff, apparently below average in the hardware dept.
That would seem to rule out an extremely rare neck twist. Guessing you checked the neck bolt tightness?
 
Gotta agree with Broseph. Something is seriously out of whack there, and it's not clear what it is.
 
How would I check for neck warp? Certainly not initially visible to my eyes.
 
I’ve removed and re-fitted a few old Mann trems on 80s guitars that arrived incorrectly set up.

Looking at your pics I don’t think your screws are set properly / equally for height – the G screw looks high to me.

When I set PRS trems from scratch I use a hex wrench as a guide but also check VERY carefully that the screw slots align and that the trem block knife edge is siting in the screw grooves. I'd check initially by eye looking at the grooves to be sure they were all in alignment.

To additionaly check it’s set properly I remove all the strings and the springs and rock / pivot the block by pushing it on to the screws to make sure the screw grooves are all sitting at the right height / in the knife edge and that the trem pivots freely. I also check the trem base is parallel both front and rear to the guitar body and not tipped up or down at one side.

If one or more screw is not sitting correctly the knife edge will set on the screw body not in the groove, potentially making the trem out of alignment, which will throw up this sort of intonation issue.

Other things I can think of are one or more pivot screws are bent – I have had this. On the early guitars they’re brass, so can bend. If a screw is bent then the trem can set incorrectly – the screw will whirl for want of a better description, changing its position at any given amount of screw rotation.

Another thing I would try to check is that the trem is set square to the frets. I would do this by taking a picture of the trem and the frets and - using the frets as a datum - check the front edge and trem pivot screws all look to be parallel to the frets. The guitar where one of the pivot screws was bent failed this test – the trem block sat out of square.

The only other thing I can think of is that the nut has moved or become loose.
 
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