Carlos Santana and wicked tone

[Alnus Rubra]

You could try my “poor mans” version of “king snake”!

A Mesa 22. It’s surprisingly good for such a small amp.

I’ve had mine for 25 years!

These things are literally designed for the road. Mine got lumped in and out of venues for 7 years, not a problem. Ok I didn’t exactly throw it about and always let the tubes cool down before packing away.

Thanks to some of the guys here I’m getting the best tones out of it, than I ever have!

 

[Boogie]

... that's all I needed ............... except for having to use a wah.

How do you cope with the trauma?

 

[Casi1]

My little trick is to roll the tone down and change my pick hold to that Benson thing that he does. I noticed that the big @ss pick, the hold, and the tone knob contribute to that Carlos tone. Hopefully my incoming Abraxas pups will help too.

Putting on the Carlos mustache doesn’t work so well for me.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Putting on the Carlos mustache doesn’t work so well for me.

It’s not how you appear to others, but how it makes you feel inside.

 

[Casi1]

It’s not how you appear to others, but how it makes you feel inside.

Yeah but it messes up the groove when everybody else is laughing (when they supposed to be playing music) because you are a chick running around with a Carlos mustache and a bad accent.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Embrace your inner Carlos!

Let others embrace your outer one!

 

[Boogie]

...you are a chick running around with a Carlos mustache and a bad accent.

Holy #$&*!! Even my dreams after eating at the Brazilian steak house don’t end up that bad! Nighty-night meat sweats are brutal!

 

[horax]

Man...Mesa’s are ‘spensive!

What’s a good rectifier alternative? Haha!

 

[shimmilou]

Have you checked out a Mini Rec head? If that is still too much $, a TA15 head is also awesome. I have the TA15, and although EL84, it gets some great Mesa tones, as well as Marshall-esque and Tweed-like sounds, through the right cab. A very versatile amp.

 

[Tone-y]

Man...Mesa’s are ‘spensive!

What’s a good rectifier alternative? Haha!

How long have you got?! Would need to know where you are, what your budget is and what you want to use the amp for in order to fully answer that question. But if you just want something cheap to get you started then perhaps a overdrive pedal or amp modeler is somewhere to start - nearly all modelers will have a Mesa/Rectifier type amp in their options. The atomic amplifier's firebox/AA6 are a cheap starting point for high quality tones, or maybe the Helix HX stomp. Both will enable you to get all kinds of Mesa/Santana tones either going through the amps you've got, through headphones or straight through a PA.

 

[67er_Matze]

I love trying to play Santana’s songs...who doesn’t?

His tone is killer, and I know it’s him. I will never be able to replicate his magic.

However, I like to try.

I have limited funds, and my gear is good, but not great. I’m ok with that.

I have a vox ac15 and a boss Katana 50 for Amps.

My guitar of choice for playing his stuff is an s2 singlecut standard with #7s pickups.

It comes close, but what else could i do to get closer?

Also, I’m thinking about the gold SE Santana singlecut trem But not sure it would be on par with what I already have.

Thoughts?

it's been a while since you opened this discussion so how is your progress? I think you should be fine with your guitar and amp hardware. The Anderton's video imo is really great. But I think Rabea uses the Tubescreamer AFTER the Mesa Fluxdrive. That's also how I achieve quite good results imo. This pedal order might appear a bit odd at first. But it makes sense to have the TS last in the chain before we hit the amp since the Tubescreamer shapes the tone to be very mid focused which imo helps a lot to approach the santana tone. I would describe Santana's sound as mid focused and quite compressed at moderate gain. I think Rabea says the same in the vid. I think it is very important to understand the function of the high compression level at moderate gain to approach Santana's tone. I think ampwise anything which is either Mesa- or Dumble- or Fender-like will do the job. I dial in my amps at very low gain. I have either Fender Princeton or Roland Blues Cube (which is very close to Boss Katana imo). I dial in my amp like you would typically for pedal use clean to slight break up. Then I do my gain and compression with pedals. I use either Compressor into moderate gain pedal or moderate gain pedal into Tube Sreamer. And in my case moderate gain pedal ist typically for santana sound either Mesa Flux Five or Origin Revival Drive or Barber Small Fry or Hermida (Lovepedal) Zendrive. I think you could maybe achieve similar results by using the amp's gain. But I do not have experience with that and would expect that a compression pedal would help again in this case. But again that's not how I do it. My favourite setup is like Rabea does in the vid (FluxV into TS into amp) or Origin Revival drive compact instead of Mesa Flux into Tubescreamer into Fender Princeton or Roland Blues Cube. The Blues Cube in low power mode is esp good for mederate volume at home. Again I am quite happy with my results even if my guitars are so for not the most appropriate for Santana tones. I use either Les Paul or a Tele with Humbucker @ neck. I am saving up for a PRS but have not yet decided which one. On my list are Paul's guitar or DGT or 594 or Santana Mdl.

 

[László]

I’ve read a Carlos quote where he says that playing his amp VERY loud, so that there’s some feedback from the pickups is part of his recipe.

Recording engineers have also said in interviews that even when he records in the control room, he blasts the amp very, very loud, keeps the recording room door open, and stands in front of the open door to achieve that interaction between amp and pickups.

So it’s not just the guitar and amp, it’s also the decibel level.

Though having a Dumble and Mark I doesn’t hurt.

 

[Boogie]

I’ve read a Carlos quote where he says that playing his amp VERY loud, so that there’s some feedback from the pickups is part of his recipe.

Recording engineers have also said in interviews that even when he records in the control room, he blasts the amp very, very loud, keeps the recording room door open, and stands in front of the open door to achieve that interaction between amp and pickups.

So it’s not just the guitar and amp, it’s also the decibel level.

Though having a Dumble and Mark I doesn’t hurt.

A poor man’s alternative is unpotted or less potted pickups. Maybe that’s misleading…custom pickups may not be inexpensive, but totally worth it. The lower volume sustain and feedback is a fringe benefit.

 

[Boogie]

I’ve read a Carlos quote where he says that playing his amp VERY loud, so that there’s some feedback from the pickups is part of his recipe.

Recording engineers have also said in interviews that even when he records in the control room, he blasts the amp very, very loud, keeps the recording room door open, and stands in front of the open door to achieve that interaction between amp and pickups.

So it’s not just the guitar and amp, it’s also the decibel level.

Though having a Dumble and Mark I doesn’t hurt.

Les is 100% spot on!

This is what the Kemper allowed me to do at a fraction of the SPL. The Super Dallas and MkIII did the loud-as-hell thing in spades, but I could get venue-to-venue reproducibility with the Brave Little Toaster and the Headrush without bleeding ears. And if I couldn’t get as much feedback as I wanted, goose the gain and it sang! Listen at 1:55 of this crappy video for an example. Plus, Mr. Clean has his magic pickups with a lot less potting to make it all happen.

 

[Daveporter33765]

Santana’s tone is as much to do with his technique (fingers) as it does his specific equipment. A player that has a very characteristic sound (like Santana, Clapton, Knopfler, Van Halen, and all the greats) developed a unique playing style and then, over time, experimented with gear until they found favorite equipment that allowed them to best get the overall sound they wanted. But, any of the greats, could be handed almost any guitar and amp and still sound like themselves. So, it’s always best to develop chops and feel and then add equipment as your skills and abilities grow. I have had some students spend thousands of dollars on gear thinking they could “sound like their hero“ before they first spent the time to develop good technique and “fingers” and never reached their goal. Others worked on technique and “fingers” development and became great players who could play any gear and sound great. So, gear choice is important, but developing your chops first often results in the best results!

 

[László]

Santana’s tone is as much to do with his technique (fingers) as it does his specific equipment. A player that has a very characteristic sound (like Santana, Clapton, Knopfler, Van Halen, and all the greats) developed a unique playing style and then, over time, experimented with gear until they found favorite equipment that allowed them to best get the overall sound they wanted. But, any of the greats, could be handed almost any guitar and amp and still sound like themselves. So, it’s always best to develop chops and feel and then add equipment as your skills and abilities grow. I have had some students spend thousands of dollars on gear thinking they could “sound like their hero“ before they first spent the time to develop good technique and “fingers” and never reached their goal. Others worked on technique and “fingers” development and became great players who could play any gear and sound great. So, gear choice is important, but developing your chops first often results in the best results!

Wait, does this entail, you know,...practicing?

 

[Daveporter33765]

Wait, does this entail, you know,...practicing?

That’s it! lol

Unfortunately no gear can substitute for developing one’s chops and learning how one’s fingers can influence tone!

 

[László]

That’s it! lol

Fortunately no gear can substitute for developing one’s chops and learning how one’s fingers can influence tone!

Fixed it for ya.

It's desirable to keep the riffraff away from the stage.

Hey, I'm a practicer. I like playing, even if only for practice.

I've reduced my guitar practice a little, because starting during COVID, I began getting serious about writing orchestral music. I do this every day. Might even be getting more capable with each successive piece. You be the judge - if you have suggestions I'm all ears!

https://persistenceofmemory.band/orchestral

 

[Daveporter33765]

Fixed it for ya.

It's desirable to keep the riffraff away from the stage.

Hey, I'm a practicer. I like playing, even if only for practice.

I've reduced my guitar practice a little, because starting during COVID, I began getting serious about writing orchestral music. I do this every day. Might even be getting more capable with each successive piece. You be the judge - if you have suggestions I'm all ears!

https://persistenceofmemory.band/orchestral

Leslie, I think your orchestral pieces are all wonderful. My three favorites are: 1. For Ukraine, 2. IV July Theme, and 3. Americana Anthem. Each of these pieces generated an emotional response in me that exactly supported the description you gave for the theme of each piece. Keep up the good work!

 

[ViperDoc]

There are several ways to get there. He goes straight into a Mesa Boogie Mark II, no effects.