Calling on you Wiring Gurus

[bretwomack]

I'm wanting to make some changes to the controls and pickups of my Tremonti SE Custom. I've got an HFS and waiting to get a VB, so coil tapping is a must since I don't have a guitar with this available. Since there are four control holes, could I do one volume, one tone, and two mini toggles for single coils (like 408s)? What about two volumes, one tone, and one mini toggle for tapping BOTH pickups? Are these scenarios possible with these pickups? Would mini toggles fit in the existing holes from the knobs?

Also, I've always wanted a guitar with a 5-way rotary. I can't think of a way to put that into this guitar though and fill all the holes.

I'm open to any of your crazy suggestions too

Side Note: Why do these guitars have maple necks? Doesn't that stray from the "Tremonti sound"? Maybe to offer something a little different from the other Tremonti SE already in production?

Thanks!

 

[John Beef]

Since there are four control holes, could I do one volume, one tone, and two mini toggles for single coils (like 408s)?

Yep, you could do this pretty easily. You'd probably have to add an extension wire for coil tapping since the pickup wires would run first to the 3 way switch on the upper horn, and your coil split switches are down below.

What about two volumes, one tone, and one mini toggle for tapping BOTH pickups? Are these scenarios possible with these pickups?

this would be easy too, and you wouldn't need to extend the coil split wire so much since the pickups would run to their respective volume pots 1st right near the split switch.

Would mini toggles fit in the existing holes from the knobs?

Close enough anyway. there may be a gap that would be covered by the washer.

Also, I've always wanted a guitar with a 5-way rotary. I can't think of a way to put that into this guitar though and fill all the holes.

Set it up for a rotary, one vol and one tone and leave the remaining pot with knob in the hole unhooked fom the circuit, same with the 3 way toggle. It won't hurt anything, it just won't do anything either. Or, hook up the 3 way to when it's switched up to what is now the neck pickup, make that the bridge pickup straight to guitar output, no volume or tone or rotary switch.

 

[garrett]

Lots of fun to be had.

If you want a rotary, you could use the toggle on the horn for a kill switch. Use two volumes or two tones, or master volume and tone and throw in a phase switch or a sweet switch for kicks.

I think the initial idea of the vol/tone/2 taps would be a simple and versatile set up. Another idea along those lines is to use two three way mini toggles to select inside coil/both coils/outside coil for each pickup. This way you could replicate both the "Tele" and "Strat" positions of the rotary and you'd have a few options for single coil tones, too. It wouldn't exactly be quick to change tones, but it might work for you depending on your needs.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

How about Vol, Vol, Tone, 5 way?

 

[bretwomack]

Thanks for the info guys. Garrett, a kill switch was one of the first things that came to mind when I thought about filling in extra holes. Can the existing 3-way toggle be wired to be a kill switch?

Sergio, if I went with a 5 way, that's exactly what I would want. Are you positive two volumes can go with a 5 way?

So, it looks like it's going to be either:
1) 3 way toggle upper bout, one volume, one tone, and 2 mini toggles for each pickup OR
2) two volume, one tone, 5 way, and a kill switch or something on the upper bout

I'm starting to wonder how I will get all of this wired, because I myself don't have a clue how to do any of it, and would be taking it somewhere to be worked on. I hope the guys at my local guitar shop would know how to do what I want.

 

[bretwomack]

OR
3) two volume, one tone, one mini toggle, and 3 way toggle. UGH I can't decide..

Also, where do you get mini toggles?

 

[Blackbird]

I just installed a killswitch last week in a Fernandes LP of mine. These two links were essential. You can use any kind of normally open (NO) switch that you want, just that arcade buttons give you the quickest action to do fast stutters, and they're really durable. But the hole will need to be enlarged to 24mm, so definitely take it to an experienced luthier/tech. Or you can go with a much smaller button in case you ever want to reverse the mod later.

http://alexplorer.net/guitar/mods/killswitch.html
https://store.djtechtools.com/arcade-buttons.html

 

[garrett]

You can definitely do two volumes and tone (or any combo) with the five way. If you want, you could even replace the three way toggle with a rotary on the upper bout. :top:

You could probably use the existing three way as a kill switch, but you might be better off changing to a two way toggle, or even a push-push switch (like Buckethead). You can get switches from a lot of places like Allparts, Guitar Electronics, etc. Any decent shop could at least get the toggles.

If you don't know how to wire it up, you'll need to find a somewhat talented tech. Your typical guy who does pickup swaps, etc. may not know how to accomplish the more complicated stuff.

 

[Blackbird]

You don't want a push/push for a killswitch, that would essentially mean you have to push the switch twice for one iteration. Pushing it once would close the circuit, then you have to push again to open it back up. Buckethead uses a normally open momentary switch, where the ground and hot are wired in a parallel loop, and the signal is only grounded while the button is depressed.

 

[bretwomack]

I am familiar with Buckethead's, that would be pretty cool! Black arcade style button on the upper bout.. I like it.

So about this 5 way on the upper bout (implying two volumes and two tones?)... what do you think about the looks of this? Too weird? What about accessibility?

 

[Blackbird]

The 5-way is hard enough to operate as it is, especially if need to switch quickly from full bridge to full neck. Trying to access it quickly on the upper bout would be a pain, IMO.
Of course you could wire it to where the neck and bridge humbuckers are just one click away instead of 4, but it may still be a pain.

 

[cjmwrx]

What's wrong with 2 500K volumes and 2 Alpha 500K pushpulls tones?

You would be able to tap both pups, and call it a day.

You could also do 2 volumes, one Alpha PushPull tone, and the 5way. But, with push pulls, there is no reason to use a 5way becuase that's all it really provides. In which case you can add a toggle for phase reverse.

 

[jbloggs]

What's wrong with 2 500K volumes and 2 Alpha 500K pushpulls tones?

NOTHING!

I have a tremonti se ( pre birds and maple top). Have a pair of hand-wound PAF style PU's with a push/pull on the bridge tone pot - not for split coils but for out-of-phase. 2 push/pull tone-pots for split coils and avoid drilling holes etc.

Forget the 5 way rotary - I have one on my 80's CE22 and its a pain to remember what setting its on, plus its slower than toggle or push-pull.

 

[bretwomack]

NOTHING!

I have a tremonti se ( pre birds and maple top). Have a pair of hand-wound PAF style PU's with a push/pull on the bridge tone pot - not for split coils but for out-of-phase. 2 push/pull tone-pots for split coils and avoid drilling holes etc.

Forget the 5 way rotary - I have one on my 80's CE22 and its a pain to remember what setting its on, plus its slower than toggle or push-pull.

So you have one master volume, an out of phase push pull, and two coil splits? (Just making sure I understand). That sounds pretty cool. What sounds do you get from the out of phase stuff? Sorry, I'm new at all this.

From what I read, more people dislike the 5 way than like it. For whatever reason I'm intrigued by it, but might wait until I can afford a used guitar with it stock.

 

[cjmwrx]

No, I use 2 volumes and 2 PushPull tones. Each pushpull would provide coil tap. No out of phase, just offering that as another option. Google Peter Greene mod.

You can also setup a single PushPull to handle coil taps for both pickups. This is how my EIRW Cu24 is configured. Except with just 2 volume controls.

This is how my LP Std is wired up 2 volumes, 2 PushPull tones:

This is how my Cu24 is wired up 2 volumes (rear is a PushPull and controls tap for both PUPs) I also changed the switch to a 3way tele switch:

 

[garrett]

You don't want a push/push for a killswitch, that would essentially mean you have to push the switch twice for one iteration. Pushing it once would close the circuit, then you have to push again to open it back up. Buckethead uses a normally open momentary switch, where the ground and hot are wired in a parallel loop, and the signal is only grounded while the button is depressed.

Ah yeah, forgot about momentary switches. Would certainly be better if you want that crazy fast stutter effect. You could also use a two way toggle if you want to rock it back and forth like you would with the regular toggle on a normally wired Tremonti with one of the volumes rolled all the way down.

I wouldn't want a rotary on the bout (actually I don't want a rotary at all--too fiddly) but we're exploring options here so I put the idea out there.

 

[John Beef]

How about Vol, Vol, Tone, 5 way?

Rotary? At least with the PRS pcb 5 way rotary, I won't think this is easily done. You connect all 3 wires from the pickup to it and it uses the wires as hots and grounds as need be. If you were to run one of the wires to a volume pot and then to the rotary, it would only work for that one coil. You'd have to figure out a way to control the volume level on both coils simultaneously before you run it to the rotary.

But if you were using a rotary from Stew Mac or Guitar Electronics, there might be an easier way. I'm not as familiar with those.

Or if by 5 way you meant blade switch (which would require some more hefty modifications) then yeah! That might work.