Cables: Questioning My Own Sanity, Again.

[László]

I know. You guys question my sanity all the time, and I don't blame you.

So as some here may recall, I have always felt that signal cables matter with guitar gear, but have always stated that I was unable to hear a difference between decent quality guitar cab speaker cables, and I've tried a BUNCH of them at all price points, including ridiculously expensive ones. I've said this on this forum many times.

On to the topics of today...guitar cab speaker cables, and even weirder, power cables for my studio monitoring rig.

I've been using Van Damme speaker cables with my PRS amps. They're flexible, and to me, they sounded as good as anything else I've tried. But the shortest length I could find was 6 feet, and when I got behind the amps to make adjustments, etc., in my limited space, I kept tripping on them. So I decided to order some 2 foot cables from Lava. They are just long enough to reach from the head to the jacks on the cabs, and don't descend to the ground where I trip on them. I didn't do this for audio improvement, just convenience.

They are made by a hi-fi cable company called Kimber. I'd tried Kimber cables with my studio monitors back when I used unpowered monitors and a Krell power amp in the 90s, and I thought they were very good; I've found in the past that with good passive studio monitors, the cabling matters more than speaker cabling matters with guitar amplifiers, whose bandwidth is far more limited.

I've said here and on other forums I couldn't tell a difference between good quality guitar amp speaker cables.

But I placed the order because I could order the exact lengths I needed, and they weren't more expensive than any other decent quality guitar speaker cables.

The cables arrived. I put them in a few days ago. The one I put on my DG30 made zero audible difference, as I expected; the amp sounded just as it had with the Van Damme. I'm good with that; I'm not tripping on the cable any more. I didn't get these to sound better. I just wanted the shorter length. But...

The one I put on the HXDA made the amp/cab sound different. I think it's an improvement. It's like the degree of improvement I got when I put an NOS Mullard in V1. Not huge, but definitely a noticeable/nice change.

Now, you realize that this is impossible, I realize that this is impossible, we both think this is impossible! Every scientist on the planet Earth knows for sure that this is, to say the least, highly unlikely. Probably even aliens know that this is highly unlikely, and they communicate it in whatever form of telepathic communication or otherwise they may have. I don't know. I'm not (to the best of my knowledge) an alien. OK, I'm an alien, I confess. But that's neither here nor there.

The more restricted quality my 30 Watt HXDA had compared to the 50 Watt HXDA I previously had, has become noticeably less pronounced with the change in cable. It's like...well, ever had a hose with one of those nozzles that you can change how restricted the stream is by twisting the end of the nozzle?

Yeah. It's like the nozzle is more open. That's the only way I can put it. Granted, the difference isn't huge, but for the $34 I spent, man, I think it's a bargain.

As I said, we all know this is impossible. I'm with ya. Les must be crazy to think this could possibly matter. DG30, zero difference, none. HXDA, noticeable difference.

Both cabs 212s running a pair of V-30 speakers.

I have no explanation for any of this. I just know it happened.

So what else happened to make you think you've lost your marbles, Les?

Welllll.......Some of you may remember that I put a very thick and heavy Lava power cable on my DG30 and thought it sounded better. At the time I said what I'm saying now, it's impossible, and blah blah, but I heard it. I also tried it with my studio power supply. I thought it improved the sound, and since the power supply powers my entire studio, I left it there. Yes, I know, it must be my imagination.

Anyway, after this happened, I tried a different power cable called a MusicCord with my power supply. Another thing that could not possibly work, but I know a guy, who knew a guy, who said it'd matter, and I said I'd give it a shot because you can send it back if you think it's BS. And it was on sale.

I tried it with the studio power supply. In my ignorance of what is possible, and what is not possible, I thought the audio sounded better than it did with the Lava power cable plugged into the power supply..

So.

I didn't send it back. I wound up buying two more of them for the monitors.

I installed them on my monitoring rig when my sensibly skeptical son was in town for my daughter's wedding. He has heard my monitoring rig many times. Now, my son is an experienced studio cat, who has tracked and mixed major label records. He is not a wishful-thinking sucker like his old man.

The sound improved again. It was like adding more watts to the amps and having everything get more headroom and just sounding more, well...real. My son's comment was that he felt the imaging of vocals and solo instruments was particularly good.

Nuts, right? My imagination, right? Except he heard it, too.

Then I put the very heavy duty Lava one (that I thought made my DG30 sound better) on my early 90s Neve-designed monitor controller. If there was a difference in that application, I didn't hear it. So it's going back on the guitar amp, where I did hear a difference...though...maybe I will try one of the MusicCords...

OK, I will admit that it still could be wishful thinking, because I am clearly, obviously, hearing impossible things, right?

So I'm obviously INSANE, I'm obviously hearing things. I have no explanation for any of this. I'm probably a figment of a computer programmer's imagination, and living in a programmed world where everything is an illusion, and what I think is reality isn't real, and please let me know when this acid flashback stops when you have a moment...

I guess it's OK to be self-delusional, if you think your audio sounds better than it did before and you're happy...

 

[Dusty Chalk]

My attitude has been -- since around 2000 -- does it matter whether it's psychological or not? If it's psychological, you're buying peace of mind, is all. So go ahead and buy it and stop wondering and concentrate on the music and the tones.

 

[dkilpatrick]

If you hear a difference then it doesn't matter.

 

[László]

My attitude has been -- since around 2000 -- does it matter whether it's psychological or not? If it's psychological, you're buying peace of mind, is all. So go ahead and buy it and stop wondering and concentrate on the music and the tones.

If you hear a difference then it doesn't matter.

But if the difference is merely psychological, it's troubling. I know about confirmation bias, and other psychological factors that affect our brains' processing of what our senses deliver.

I believe I hear very clear differences - I was actually startled by the difference between the power cables - but the part of my brain that has a BS filter says, "Just a second here, son, that can't be real."

If the phantom image of a vocal in the middle of a stereo field is more palpable, how does one even begin to measure that? What does that even mean?

How does one measure a sense of greater cohesion in the image thrown up by the speakers?

I have no idea. There may be ways of doing it. But I'm not aware of anyone who is.

It's funny...I have audio treatment in my workstation area made by RealTraps. This stuff works, and not only does it work, it works because it's supposed to work, given what we know and can measure about acoustics.

Ethan Winer, one of the principals in the company, is an audio engineer, and he decided to test the claims of speaker isolation platforms. So he set up speakers on a table he called rickety, and did a bunch of measurements.

His measurements showed 1-3 db changes in waterfall plots, etc., in his room with the isolation platforms.

But his conclusion was that the science proved only that they sounded better because their position changed when raised by the isolation platforms. He dismissed a change of 1-3 db as insignificant.

Huh?..who says you don't hear a 1-3 db improvement?

Bell labs created the decibel measurement because 1db was the level at which changes became apparent to the ear. Taming a 3 db bass bump at the right frequency is a fairly substantial improvement in frequency response, though not as large as the 10 db improvement one can get with proper acoustic treatment. Still, a good tweak is a good tweak, and worth doing if you're into taking the trouble to do it.

So as you see, we ultimately get into the question of the interpretation of scientific data. Even if you can measure something, you have to decide whether it matters. And that in itself is a question.

The onion gets peeled, and then peeled again, and still people find things to disagree about...

So you're right, guys, if it's subjectively better, sure, for most practical purposes it's better, just move on. But I do like to understand why, if I can.

And partly, it's because I make my living with my ears. I like to know whether I can trust them (and trust their connection to reality in my brain!).

 

[dkilpatrick]

Get a 2nd opinion

 

[Dusty Chalk]

But if the difference is merely psychological, it's troubling. I know about confirmation bias, and other psychological factors that affect our brains' processing of what our senses deliver.

I believe I hear very clear differences - I was actually startled by the difference between the power cables - but the part of my brain that has a BS filter says, "Just a second here, son, that can't be real."

If the phantom image of a vocal in the middle of a stereo field is more palpable, how does one even begin to measure that? What does that even mean?

How does one measure a sense of greater cohesion in the image thrown up by the speakers?

I have no idea. There may be ways of doing it. But I'm not aware of anyone who is.

It's funny...I have audio treatment in my workstation area made by RealTraps. This stuff works, and not only does it work, it works because it's supposed to work, given what we know and can measure about acoustics.

Ethan Winer, one of the principals in the company, is an audio engineer, and he decided to test the claims of speaker isolation platforms. So he set up speakers on a table he called rickety, and did a bunch of measurements.

His measurements showed 1-3 db changes in waterfall plots, etc., in his room with the isolation platforms.

But his conclusion was that the science proved only that they sounded better because their position changed when raised by the isolation platforms. He dismissed a change of 1-3 db as insignificant.

Huh?..who says you don't hear a 1-3 db improvement?

Bell labs created the decibel measurement because 1db was the level at which changes became apparent to the ear. Taming a 3 db bass bump at the right frequency is a fairly substantial improvement in frequency response, though not as large as the 10 db improvement one can get with proper acoustic treatment. Still, a good tweak is a good tweak, and worth doing if you're into taking the trouble to do it.

So as you see, we ultimately get into the question of the interpretation of scientific data. Even if you can measure something, you have to decide whether it matters. And that in itself is a question.

The onion gets peeled, and then peeled again, and still people find things to disagree about...

So you're right, guys, if it's subjectively better, sure, for most practical purposes it's better, just move on. But I do like to understand why, if I can.

And partly, it's because I make my living with my ears. I like to know whether I can trust them (and trust their connection to reality in my brain!).

Absolutely, I agree with all of this. Constantly question. Just because science hasn't figured out a way to measure something yet, doesn't mean it's immeasurable. Do you know who figures out how to measure things that weren't previously measured? People like you who aren't convinced.

 

[László]

Get a 2nd opinion

I did. My son heard it. He's musically and technologically trained.

What I'd do - if I had the spare dough to blow - would be to send one of these cables around to you guys and see what you think. But...I actually feel I need them here, and as much as I love you all, I'm not going to send them out to everyone, that's not my job, man.

 

[László]

Do you know who figures out how to measure things that weren't previously measured? People like you who aren't convinced.

Unfortunately, my scientific background isn't up to the task. So I'm stuck with ears.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Unfortunately, my scientific background isn't up to the task. So I'm stuck with ears.

Yeah, but it's still people like you who will get the ball rolling.

I distinctly remember listening to The Weavers Reunion at Carnegie Hall, and being told to listen in the sweet spot, so I stood there, and then was told to put my ears level with the tweeters (the speakers were some B&W 3-way standalone jobbies, but the tweeters were not at ear level), and as I kneeled, the soundstage came magically into focus. All of a sudden, I was there! At Carnegie Hall! Can you imagine how refined an instrument the ear is, that it could reconstruct a space, but needed that little bit more of phase coherency?

And that's assuming the speakers and amp are already doing their job in terms of frequency response and separation and matching and everything else...

 

[László]

Yeah, but it's still people like you who will get the ball rolling.

I distinctly remember listening to Weavers, Reunion at Carnegie Hall, and being told to listen in the sweet spot, so I stood there, and then was told to put my ears in the plane of the tweeters, and as I kneeled, the Soundstage came magically into focus. All of a sudden, I was there! At Carnegie Hall! Can you imagine how refined an instrument the ear is, that it could reconstruct a space, but needed that little bit more of phase coherency?

And that's assuming the speakers and amp are already doing their job in terms of frequency response and separation and matching and everything else...

Well, I completely agree.

Anyway, while I realize we tend to psychologically seek reinforcement of our own behaviors and opinions - a factor that tends to make me doubt my own initial reaction - I have swapped things back and forth, done as many listening tests as I can stand over a period of several days with fresh ears each time, and I'm certain that what I think I'm hearing, I'm actually hearing.

So I'm good with it.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

Considering all the things that internet people claim makes no difference that I can plainly hear without trying all that hard... I'm willing to accept that just about any thing is possible for certain people.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

being a reformed audiophile, I KNOW speaker cables, interconnect cables, etc. DO make a difference. The problem is, the higher resolution your system is, the more apparent these "minor" differences can be. Someone can try the magic speaker cables in a nice, but not really highly transparent sound system, and say they make no difference, and they can be correct. But they can't say they don't make a difference! They can only say that on their system they don't make a difference. I have heard the value of replacing one known GOOD interconnect between my turntable and preamp, with a better one. No other changes, and everything was better. EVERYTHING. Imaging was more solid and clear, better depth of field, sound stage went from what I thought was great, to "close your eyes and reach out and touch anything on the stage, as in, the lead singer is RIGHT THERE and the drums RIGHT THERE," bass was tighter and more extended, highs more extended yet sweeter... you name it, it was better.

And, I will totally buy that speaker cable or guitar cable can make a difference. But, it's going to be vastly more clear in some setups, and not at all in others. We rarely (if ever, to be honest) have a truly transparent chain from string to speaker, in the guitar world. In fact, we usually chose our gear based on the colorations that we like. "Flat" anything is out of the question in guitar gear. Speakers distort on purpose. So do amps. Etc., etc.

I know there are "better" cables, that are cleaner, quieter, more transparent, extended and more pure top and bottom, etc. But some might listen to that cable in a guitar setup and think it sounds worse, because again, were basing our preferences on the euphonic distortion, variances from flat EQ, etc. that we want to hear. And, the gear around that is already tuned to what we wanted to hear with the cable we had.

Dusty, I would amend our comment to "just because they can't measure it, doesn't mean you can't hear it." Some things are measurable with what we have now. Some cables have been measured (audiophile speaker cables) to have 1-2dB differences in different parts of the frequency spectrum, and this can clearly account for some differences we hear. Other things, like the imaging improvements I mentioned above, are REAL, but good luck figuring out how to measure them. Speculations on time alignment/the ability of cable to pass all frequencies at exactly the same speed, or lack thereof creating time smear, etc. This is all audiophile stuff and I'm going to far already. LOL

There was a funny thread at The Gear Page a couple years ago. A particular maker of high end transformers came out with a power cable for amps that they claimed made amps sound better. Some bought it and said "yes it does." Others bought it and said "no difference." Thing is, this magic cable DID NOT cost big money, so the haters couldn't bash it as overpriced voodoo. The funny posts were the guys who bought them only because they needed a new cable, and didn't believe in any way it would sound better, but they just needed a new, or longer power chord. A BUNCH of the naysayers bought them, and then said things like "I couldn't believe it, but I do hear a difference. I went back and forth with the old cable, and it really is better." All the naysayers who didn't believe would speculate things like "oh, it's 12 gauge and your old cable was 16 gauge, so less resistance" and things like that. But a number of guys checked and were replacing the same gauge cables, and could hear a difference. And that's a power chord!

So Les, since this is IN the signal chain, I'm going to quote PRSh and agree that "everything matters."

 

[László]

So Les, since this is IN the signal chain, I'm going to quote PRSh and agree that "everything matters."

 

[aristotle]

Well, as a PhD in Electrical Engineering, that means that I'm slightly more likely to electrocute myself than the average bear just due to my impractical nature. In any case, I don't buy in to the "everything matters" in the signal chain. Some things do (transformers, circuit topology and layout) but some things just really can't make any audible difference, be they in the signal chain or not.

I'm skeptical of most of these kinds of observations (though give more credibility when they are made by somebody with Les' experience) but if I had to pick a place in the signal chain where impedance match makes an audible difference it would be in a cable carrying the relatively high current between amp and speaker. It'd be an interesting experiment for Les to try different cable vendors with identical lengths on his HX/DA.

 

[László]

Well, as a PhD in Electrical Engineering, that means that I'm slightly more likely to electrocute myself than the average bear just due to my impractical nature. In any case, I don't buy in to the "everything matters" in the signal chain. Some things do (transformers, circuit topology and layout) but some things just really can't make any audible difference, be they in the signal chain or not.

I'm skeptical of most of these kinds of observations (though give more credibility when they are made by somebody with Les' experience) but if I had to pick a place in the signal chain where impedance match makes an audible difference it would be in a cable carrying the relatively high current between amp and speaker. It'd be an interesting experiment for Les to try different cable vendors with identical lengths on his HX/DA.

Unfortunately, all of my speaker cables are different lengths, bought at different times, for different needs. As I said, the cable swap didn't matter with the DG, but mattered with the HXDA. Now, maybe just going to a shorter cable did the trick? But I'm just not going to buy more 2 foot cables to be Dr. Science. I would love to know the answer, but I'm just not doing it.

And as I said in my first post, I 'know' power cables can't possibly matter. I'm honestly flabbergasted that they seem to, despite what I know...

I wish you could hear the difference these damned power cables made with my monitoring system. It was truly unexpected. No, beyond unexpected. I would not have believed it if I hadn't done this: I switched off the speakers, but kept all of my levels the same on all of my other gear; I didn't touch a single knob. Then I plugged in the fancy cables, and switched the speakers on.

First of all, the signal was more dynamic. Second, there was a more firm, less flabby bottom end. Third, everything got more...coherent is the only word I can apply. More detailed, with instruments "anchored" better in the mix. Could I be imagining this? Sure. But probably not for two weeks running, with projects going in the studio. It's been consistent. And I've gone back and forth a few times.

And we are talking about my own mixes, that I'm intimately familiar with. Even reverb tails were more audible. I'm telling you, it's crazy.

It's too bad you're not in the Detroit area. It'd be so simple to do a swap and listen.

 

[László]

Here's what the respected Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook says about speaker cables; Yamaha doesn't make cables, so they have no axe to grind other than informing people how to get good audio, p.288:

"As you can see, the use of standard 18 gauge zip cord with a 4 ohm speaker results in a 2 1/2 db loss. A loss of 3 db would mean half the amplifier's power is being dissipated by the wire, not the speaker, so this is no small loss. Clearly, the larger gauge wire is beneficial in this case. You can also see that a higher impedance results in less loss (and in less power delivered to the speaker, too). This is why large, distributed speaker systems operate at nominal 70 volt output levels and use transformers at each speaker."

It goes on to note, "While the power loss caused by the cable may or may not be important to you, you may find that the degradation in sound quality caused by the lower damping factor is reason enough to use short, heavy gauge, speaker cables."

With respect to signal cables, audio differences are also discussed, at p. 283:

"While shielding is beneficial to the extent it excludes electrostatic noise, it can have a negative impact on a cable. It increases the overall distributed capacitance between signal-carrying conductors. Because cable has finite resistance as well, the combination of capacitance plus resistance constitute a low-pass filter. For a given wire gauge, the longer the cable or capacitance per foot, the lower the cutoff frequency of the filter...be aware that on two conductor shielded cables, there are two capacitance specs to examine; capacitance between center conductors, and capacitance between a center conductor and a shield. Cables with larger capacitance inside the shield (we don't care about jacket thickness) tend to have lower capacitance due to greater spacing between conductors. There are, however major variations in similar looking cables due to the tightness of the twist between center conductors, the dielectric constant of the insulation, and other factors. You can go through complex calculations to figure out what the effect of a certain cable will have on the high frequency response of a system, but the bottom line is that the wrong cable may affect the transient or overall high frequency response of the system."

The manual also discusses the differences between plugs and other connectors, even ones that look alike, and mentions the resistance they develop over time, etc.

What conclusions do I draw from this? Simple. Wires affect audio in certain ways that are pretty well understood. And there are wires that sound better for a given job than other wires. Even plugs can have an effect.

In my studio, I have used 50 foot, 35 foot, 25 foot, 10 foot, and 2 foot speaker cables in the past year as I move equipment around to different locations.

For audio cables, I usually use an 18 foot cable from guitar to pedalboard, I have 8 pedals interconnected with about ten feet of cabling and about 20 plugs. I then run 25 feet of cabling out to each head. There's a fair amount of cable length there, about 53 feet from guitar to each amp.

I think I'm not hearing things when it comes to audio cables and speaker cables. I may not be able to know in advance which ones will do better at a given job, but I damn well can know which ones sound better in a given application by trying them out.

So...

On to AC wire; here is some basic info about issues related to AC wires:

http://www.edisontechcenter.org/wires.html

Of course, I'm guessing most of this stuff in the above article applies to larger AC systems, like the ones that send electricity to our homes. However, it should seem that certain of these things may still apply inside our houses and buildings. Perhaps Aristotle can comment on that guess (yes, it's a guess).

Here's a quote from the article:

"AC power has some very complex physics which cause some strange effects.

AC Power:
In AC power current likes to travel near the surface of a wire (skin effect). AC power in a wire also causes a magnetic field to form around it (inductance). This field effects [sic] other nearby wires (such as in a winding) causing proximity effect. All of these properties must be dealt with when designing an AC circuit.

DC Power:
In DC power current travels through the whole of a wire.

Size of the conductor and material (AC and DC power):

Electricity travels more easily in highly conductive elements like copper, silver or gold, the less conductive the material, the larger the diameter has to be to carry the same current load.

Engineers choose the right wire diameter for the job, raising current in a wire increases the resistivity and generates more heat."

Hmmm......so there is resistivity and heat generated by AC in wires. No wonder some AC cables feel warm while an appliance is operated. What happens to the level of power when there's increased resistance and heat? As I understand it, increasing the resistance reduces the flow of current.

Am I on the right track here, Aristotle? Isn't there a relationship between the AC voltage, current, and resistance, and what gets into the amp to power it?

So...Is it possible that an AC cable can be designed to allow more of the current to reach the amplifier, and that lose less energy as a result of resistance? Might the amplifier then operate better, or at least, closer to its design specs? And of course, do engineers who design audio equipment compensate for losses in cables as part of their design work?

Why do certain companies, an example is Avalon, who make studio gear, ship their equipment with 14 gauge cables, while some companies ship with 16? Does this even matter?

Unfortunately, I don't have the technical background to be able to sift through all of this, especially as it relates to power cables, but I do feel pretty confident in what I'm hearing. A little guidance would of course be a great thing!

 

[The Fight]

I know. You guys question my sanity all the time, and I don't blame you.

So as some here may recall, I have always felt that signal cables matter with guitar gear, but have always stated that I was unable to hear a difference between decent quality guitar cab speaker cables, and I've tried a BUNCH of them at all price points, including ridiculously expensive ones. I've said this on this forum many times.

On to the topics of today...guitar cab speaker cables, and even weirder, power cables for my studio monitoring rig.

I've been using Van Damme speaker cables with my PRS amps. They're flexible, and to me, they sounded as good as anything else I've tried. But the shortest length I could find was 6 feet, and when I got behind the amps to make adjustments, etc., in my limited space, I kept tripping on them. So I decided to order some 2 foot cables from Lava. They are just long enough to reach from the head to the jacks on the cabs, and don't descend to the ground where I trip on them. I didn't do this for audio improvement, just convenience.

They are made by a hi-fi cable company called Kimber. I'd tried Kimber cables with my studio monitors back when I used unpowered monitors and a Krell power amp in the 90s, and I thought they were very good; I've found in the past that with good passive studio monitors, the cabling matters more than speaker cabling matters with guitar amplifiers, whose bandwidth is far more limited.

I've said here and on other forums I couldn't tell a difference between good quality guitar amp speaker cables.

But I placed the order because I could order the exact lengths I needed, and they weren't more expensive than any other decent quality guitar speaker cables.

The cables arrived. I put them in a few days ago. The one I put on my DG30 made zero audible difference, as I expected; the amp sounded just as it had with the Van Damme. I'm good with that; I'm not tripping on the cable any more. I didn't get these to sound better. I just wanted the shorter length. But...

The one I put on the HXDA made the amp/cab sound different. I think it's an improvement. It's like the degree of improvement I got when I put an NOS Mullard in V1. Not huge, but definitely a noticeable/nice change.

Now, you realize that this is impossible, I realize that this is impossible, we both think this is impossible! Every scientist on the planet Earth knows for sure that this is, to say the least, highly unlikely. Probably even aliens know that this is highly unlikely, and they communicate it in whatever form of telepathic communication or otherwise they may have. I don't know. I'm not (to the best of my knowledge) an alien. OK, I'm an alien, I confess. But that's neither here nor there.

The more restricted quality my 30 Watt HXDA had compared to the 50 Watt HXDA I previously had, has become noticeably less pronounced with the change in cable. It's like...well, ever had a hose with one of those nozzles that you can change how restricted the stream is by twisting the end of the nozzle?

Yeah. It's like the nozzle is more open. That's the only way I can put it. Granted, the difference isn't huge, but for the $34 I spent, man, I think it's a bargain.

As I said, we all know this is impossible. I'm with ya. Les must be crazy to think this could possibly matter. DG30, zero difference, none. HXDA, noticeable difference.

Both cabs 212s running a pair of V-30 speakers.

I have no explanation for any of this. I just know it happened.

So what else happened to make you think you've lost your marbles, Les?

Welllll.......Some of you may remember that I put a very thick and heavy Lava power cable on my DG30 and thought it sounded better. At the time I said what I'm saying now, it's impossible, and blah blah, but I heard it. I also tried it with my studio power supply. I thought it improved the sound, and since the power supply powers my entire studio, I left it there. Yes, I know, it must be my imagination.

Anyway, after this happened, I tried a different power cable called a MusicCord with my power supply. Another thing that could not possibly work, but I know a guy, who knew a guy, who said it'd matter, and I said I'd give it a shot because you can send it back if you think it's BS. And it was on sale.

I tried it with the studio power supply. In my ignorance of what is possible, and what is not possible, I thought the audio sounded better than it did with the Lava power cable plugged into the power supply..

So.

I didn't send it back. I wound up buying two more of them for the monitors.

I installed them on my monitoring rig when my sensibly skeptical son was in town for my daughter's wedding. He has heard my monitoring rig many times. Now, my son is an experienced studio cat, who has tracked and mixed major label records. He is not a wishful-thinking sucker like his old man.

The sound improved again. It was like adding more watts to the amps and having everything get more headroom and just sounding more, well...real. My son's comment was that he felt the imaging of vocals and solo instruments was particularly good.

Nuts, right? My imagination, right? Except he heard it, too.

Then I put the very heavy duty Lava one (that I thought made my DG30 sound better) on my early 90s Neve-designed monitor controller. If there was a difference in that application, I didn't hear it. So it's going back on the guitar amp, where I did hear a difference...though...maybe I will try one of the MusicCords...

OK, I will admit that it still could be wishful thinking, because I am clearly, obviously, hearing impossible things, right?

So I'm obviously INSANE, I'm obviously hearing things. I have no explanation for any of this. I'm probably a figment of a computer programmer's imagination, and living in a programmed world where everything is an illusion, and what I think is reality isn't real, and please let me know when this acid flashback stops when you have a moment...

I guess it's OK to be self-delusional, if you think your audio sounds better than it did before and you're happy...

After you wrote a review about the Lava power chords, I ended up buying five of them for my rack unit/rack junk/amp, and I really feel like I hear the difference. The Lava chords are very expensive but we'll worth the money. For me honestly it's not as important as a peace of mind, tying up Loose Ends so to speak. I got them now I never ask, but cables on the other hand..

 

[László]

After you wrote a review about the Lava power chords, I ended up buying five of them for my rack unit/rack junk/amp, and I really feel like I hear the difference. The Lava chords are very expensive but we'll worth the money. For me honestly it's not as important as a peace of mind, tying up Loose Ends so to speak. I got them now I never ask, but cables on the other hand..

I get it.

 

[aristotle]

Here's what the respected Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook says about speaker cables; Yamaha doesn't make cables, so they have no axe to grind other than informing people how to get good audio, p.288:

"As you can see, the use of standard 18 gauge zip cord with a 4 ohm speaker results in a 2 1/2 db loss. A loss of 3 db would mean half the amplifier's power is being dissipated by the wire, not the speaker, so this is no small loss. Clearly, the larger gauge wire is beneficial in this case. You can also see that a higher impedance results in less loss (and in less power delivered to the speaker, too). This is why large, distributed speaker systems operate at nominal 70 volt output levels and use transformers at each speaker."

It goes on to note, "While the power loss caused by the cable may or may not be important to you, you may find that the degradation in sound quality caused by the lower damping factor is reason enough to use short, heavy gauge, speaker cables."

With respect to signal cables, audio differences are also discussed, at p. 283:

"While shielding is beneficial to the extent it excludes electrostatic noise, it can have a negative impact on a cable. It increases the overall distributed capacitance between signal-carrying conductors. Because cable has finite resistance as well, the combination of capacitance plus resistance constitute a low-pass filter. For a given wire gauge, the longer the cable or capacitance per foot, the lower the cutoff frequency of the filter...be aware that on two conductor shielded cables, there are two capacitance specs to examine; capacitance between center conductors, and capacitance between a center conductor and a shield. Cables with larger capacitance inside the shield (we don't care about jacket thickness) tend to have lower capacitance due to greater spacing between conductors. There are, however major variations in similar looking cables due to the tightness of the twist between center conductors, the dielectric constant of the insulation, and other factors. You can go through complex calculations to figure out what the effect of a certain cable will have on the high frequency response of a system, but the bottom line is that the wrong cable may affect the transient or overall high frequency response of the system."

The manual also discusses the differences between plugs and other connectors, even ones that look alike, and mentions the resistance they develop over time, etc.

What conclusions do I draw from this? Simple. Wires affect audio in certain ways that are pretty well understood. And there are wires that sound better for a given job than other wires. Even plugs can have an effect.

In my studio, I have used 50 foot, 35 foot, 25 foot, 10 foot, and 2 foot speaker cables in the past year as I move equipment around to different locations.

For audio cables, I usually use an 18 foot cable from guitar to pedalboard, I have 8 pedals interconnected with about ten feet of cabling and about 20 plugs. I then run 25 feet of cabling out to each head. There's a fair amount of cable length there, about 53 feet from guitar to each amp.

I think I'm not hearing things when it comes to audio cables and speaker cables. I may not be able to know in advance which ones will do better at a given job, but I damn well can know which ones sound better in a given application by trying them out.

So...

On to AC wire; here is some basic info about issues related to AC wires:

http://www.edisontechcenter.org/wires.html

Of course, I'm guessing most of this stuff in the above article applies to larger AC systems, like the ones that send electricity to our homes. However, it should seem that certain of these things may still apply inside our houses and buildings. Perhaps Aristotle can comment on that guess (yes, it's a guess).

Here's a quote from the article:

"AC power has some very complex physics which cause some strange effects.

AC Power:
In AC power current likes to travel near the surface of a wire (skin effect). AC power in a wire also causes a magnetic field to form around it (inductance). This field effects [sic] other nearby wires (such as in a winding) causing proximity effect. All of these properties must be dealt with when designing an AC circuit.

DC Power:
In DC power current travels through the whole of a wire.

Size of the conductor and material (AC and DC power):

Electricity travels more easily in highly conductive elements like copper, silver or gold, the less conductive the material, the larger the diameter has to be to carry the same current load.

Engineers choose the right wire diameter for the job, raising current in a wire increases the resistivity and generates more heat."

Hmmm......so there is resistivity and heat generated by AC in wires. No wonder some AC cables feel warm while an appliance is operated. What happens to the level of power when there's increased resistance and heat? As I understand it, increasing the resistance reduces the flow of current.

Am I on the right track here, Aristotle? Isn't there a relationship between the AC voltage, current, and resistance, and what gets into the amp to power it?

So...Is it possible that an AC cable can be designed to allow more of the current to reach the amplifier, and that lose less energy as a result of resistance? Might the amplifier then operate better, or at least, closer to its design specs? And of course, do engineers who design audio equipment compensate for losses in cables as part of their design work?

Why do certain companies, an example is Avalon, who make studio gear, ship their equipment with 14 gauge cables, while some companies ship with 16? Does this even matter?

Unfortunately, I don't have the technical background to be able to sift through all of this, especially as it relates to power cables, but I do feel pretty confident in what I'm hearing. A little guidance would of course be a great thing!

Hi Les,

Here's my take, and remember...just because I happen to have a technical background doesn't mean that I can't be wrong about this stuff as it applies to human perception...

Regarding speaker cables, as I said before, this is the most likely area in the signal chain where I can believe an observed difference, but only at the extremes. That Yamaha quote that you gave ( I actually found it online) was for a 100' of 18AWG wire (for reference, 18AWG zip is what your typical house lamp has.) Most of the cheapy speaker cables that you get with your amp are going to be 12AWG or better and be no more than a few feet long. The reduction in transferred power and resultant SPL difference just won't be noticeable with any "normal" cable made for guitar amp speakers. We're talking less a .1dB reduction. So, what this is really saying is that you shouldn't hook up your loudspeakers using a 100' lamp chord, and I'd certainly agree with that. So, as far as reduction in output SPL, I just don't buy it.

Regarding the "dampening factor" reduction associated with DC resistance in the cable.... This is about the amplifiers ability to effectively dampen unwanted speaker motion that results from the interaction between the coil and the cone. This is a real thing, but with runs of 15' or less, there just isn't any real difference when the resistance is a few hundredths of an ohm. Now if in your studio setup you were running a few hundred feet of cable, I'd buy that you could hear a difference between 10AWG and 14AWG (maybe...)

Regardless, you hear what you hear, so whatever is going on, it's real.

With respect to the general electrical stuff that you raise, there are a couple of points....

First, it's true that different materials have different conductivity. Copper is used almost universally. It actually has a higher conductivity than gold does, but not by much. And for a given material, like copper, you are right in that a bigger diameter wire will have a lower resistance. But resistance doesn't actually increase as a function of current (unless you put so much through it that it melts!) The resistance remains the same. What actually changes, for a fixed cable resistance as current increases is that the voltage drop along the cable increases. Alternatively, for a fixed current through the cable, there will be more of a voltage drop across a higher resistance cable than across a low resistance cable assuming identical lengths.

The problem with this as an explanation for why one AC power cable might sound better than another is that most any AC cable that you'd get with an amp is 12AWG or 14AWG. The resistance for a 10' cable is a couple of hundredths of an ohm even at 14AWG... I have a much harder time understanding how this would be noticeable. I can (and do) buy that a power conditioner makes a difference because it removes all of the variables with your home wiring...but a 10' cable from your conditioner to your gear just doesn't make sense to me in terms of making an audible difference.

None of this is to disabuse you of the notion that you're not hearing what you are clearly hearing. Just that it doesn't seem to have a good explanation....

 

[László]

None of this is to disabuse you of the notion that you're not hearing what you are clearly hearing. Just that it doesn't seem to have a good explanation....

Well...the cables that came with my amp were 16 gauge. Not that it matters much, I'm sure. With the power supply they were 14, and are now 12. With the powered monitors, I had 16 gauge per speaker. Now 12.

I don't know why there isn't some explanation. I repeated my tests again with the powered monitors last night, and the difference was definitely not my imagination...anyone familiar with the monitors with good hearing would hear it. Not very subtle.

Hmmmm...something's happening here, and I don't know what it is...do I, Mr. Jones?