=c= any info?

[The Fight]

Hey what do you guys think about SED wing =c= tubes? I have some in my Friedman BE100 (Marshall style amp) and I really like them. That amp as hairy as it gets in my opinion sounds the best in low to mid gain. I get some amazing ACDC tones and has a great option to boost strat like/ coiltap guitars, making it great for Hendrix and naturally classic rock in general. I also have two 100 watt Splawn quickrods, both like Marshall jcm 800s but better in my opinion. Both amps have dead power tubes, one as of late and the other almost a year ago.
I don't always play my BE100, mostly the quickrod and desperately need new power tubes. I'm not exactly a tube pro but have had experience with a few popular choices like the EH 34 and the EH 6CA7 which happens to be my current favorite.

I'm planning on buying new tubes for both quickrods and was thinking of trying out the SED =c=. I'm actually considering swapping out the =c= out of the BE into a quickrod. My only concern is that I might like them and want to buy more. And boy are they expensive.

I really like the EH 6CA7s but at times feel like I'm getting too much roundness on the upper high end.
I feel like the =c= are a bit more snappier and it might help edge up the higher registers. I'm looking for a subtle change. This is just a thought and all subjective I know. I guess what I'm asking is the difference between the =c= and the 6CA7s and if any one has experience with SED winged =c=

Thanks!

 

[Woundtight]

winged =c=... \m/

I have had several Marshall Silver Jubilees and the one I bought with winged =c= tubes is pretty special. Plus a Ruby HG+ 12ax7a in V1.

I know those tubes are really expensive now, but mine is 50W, and I only need a pair.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

My MDT came with winged 'C' stock, and are probably a large part (but less than 50% -- the other parts being the paisley tolex and the circuit) of why I love it so much.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I like EH for replacements. Make sure you bias them.

 

[László]

I have had the Winged Cs in my HXDAs (50 and 30Watt) and I love them. They sound very close to NOS tubes, but of course, now that they're out of production, I guess they are NOS!

I have a set of Siemens NOS German EL34s for my HXDA for when the Winged Cs wear out. They are also supposed to be excellent tubes, and it's said that Doug Sewell recommends them for his amps as good NOS replacements.

 

[The Fight]

winged =c=... \m/

I have had several Marshall Silver Jubilees and the one I bought with winged =c= tubes is pretty special. Plus a Ruby HG+ 12ax7a in V1.

I know those tubes are really expensive now, but mine is 50W, and I only need a pair.

That's how I feel about them in the Friedman, I'm hoping I'll get that in the quickrod. I hear they are very popular in the Marshall community. Since I have two quickrods Mby I'll switch one to 50 watt, grab two tubes, bias it and see how that works for me. I really like the head room from a 100 watt but seeing I've been playing at bedroom lvl, mby I won't notice that much.

 

[The Fight]

I have had the Winged Cs in my HXDAs (50 and 30Watt) and I love them. They sound very close to NOS tubes, but of course, now that they're out of production, I guess they are NOS!

I have a set of Siemens NOS German EL34s for my HXDA for when the Winged Cs wear out. They are also supposed to be excellent tubes, and it's said that Doug Sewell recommends them for his amps as good NOS replacements.

Your amp sounds pretty Marshall esque, It sounds great - I like it alot. Siemens EL34s, I'll have to check them out.

 

[elvis]

Most people like them. But if you don't typically get 10 years out of a set of power tubes, I consider them to be not worth the price.

 

[László]

Most people like them. But if you don't typically get 10 years out of a set of power tubes, I consider them to be not worth the price.

It's funny, I had a discussion with the designer for Two-Rock a few years back about power tubes; at the time, TR was only using NOS. He told me that he recommends a tube change for gigging players about every six months, and longer of course for guys like me who never leave the studio, except to go to other studios.

I got more than 10 years out of the tubes on my old BF Bassman head back in the day, but then again, I wasn't all that into TOANZ back then, I was just a young guy who liked to play. I never paid attention to all this tone stuff in the late 60s and 70s.

In my studio, I find that good power tubes will go at least a couple of years, but I wouldn't expect ten.

I do think my tubes have been worth the price, though.

 

[The Fight]

10 years no way...
I like going like Les said, 6 months to a year. If I get into a Max performance mood, I'll change the tubes out every six months. But usually if I leave it to the tubes to run their own course, it's around a year and a good two weeks of "what's going on?"

Has anybody noticed that when power tubes start going out, you get this nice sweetness to the sound, I especially noticed when running gain. To me personally the sound feels more "brown".
I've heard it has something to do with the power transformer working harder, but I wouldn't know bcs I'm not a scientist..

 

[elvis]

I guess I wasn't clear. I don't think anybody expects to get 10 years from power tubes (though I did play a show with a guy who had 30 years on a set of 6L6s in a Fender Twin).

My point was that power tubes need to be changed WAY too often to justify $100/tube IMO.

Has anybody noticed that when power tubes start going out, you get this nice sweetness to the sound, I especially noticed when running gain. To me personally the sound feels more "brown".
I've heard it has something to do with the power transformer working harder, but I wouldn't know bcs I'm not a scientist..

No, my experience has been that I lose lows and definition. For me the tubes sound more dead, not more scratchy. I can't explain the effect you are describing, but in a technical sense the power transformer doesn't "work". My best guess is that the tube plate resistance increases at end of life, effectively reducing peak output voltage, which could act a bit like a VARIAC.

 

[László]

My point was that power tubes need to be changed WAY too often to justify $100/tube IMO.

Things are all relative...

A $200 dinner or bottle of wine lasts a night, and it's poop or pee the next day. $200 worth of gas powers your car for a couple of weeks.

What do you spend on a year's worth of strings if you change them often?

A few hundred bucks worth of quality tubes is good tone for a year, and that's if you only have one amp you play a lot. For me, a set of power tubes is good for at least two years, and often longer, since I have several amps and spread the workload among them.

In fact, my DG30 uses EL84M tubes that were designed by the Russian military to run for 50,000 hours. So far I have about 2.5 years on my set, and they're still sounding as-new. I have a spare NOS set as well.

I have more than a year on my Winged Cs in my HXDA. They sound like new tubes. The Lone Star uses whatever Mesa brand tubes were installed at the factory, and they never sounded all that great, so I plan to replace them with NOS.

I make my living with my gear, so retubing represents a small maintenance cost relative to other things. I don't even think about it.

 

[squirrel211]

I bought my Tone King Comet from the lead guitar player in O.A.R. Whatever tubes were in there when he sold it to me worked from Sept 2005 to about last summer when I had the bright idea to take a boat to one of our shows. For most of that 10 years, we were playing 70+ shows per year, and I was single so I played every day at home! The boat ride home was in pretty good sized chop, and The tubes wound up getting beaten to death.

Then I put in EH 6V6's that lasted a month; apparently they switched manufacturing plants and the ones since 2004(?) can't handle the screen voltages.

I have some TAD's in there now, and I'm hoping to have a similar experience as the original tubes! I am looking at NOS, but it sounds great right now, so I'll ride her til she bucks me!

 

[elvis]

I make my living with my gear, so retubing represents a small maintenance cost relative to other things. I don't even think about it.

In your case, no doubt it is appropriate. For the majority, like me, who don't make a living at it, and who pretty much only play live, where tone is not so critical, I don't think it's worth it. Of course, if you can afford it and enjoy it, by all means, go for it.

The way I see it, at $400 per retube, 5 retubes is a new amp.

My other question is, what do you do when =C= are simply no longer available? Is there anything comparable?

 

[László]

My other question is, what do you do when =C= are simply no longer available? Is there anything comparable?

I got a couple of sets of NOS 80s Siemens EL34s -- that many think are better tubes -- for $150 per matched pair. These are the ones Doug Sewell recommends.

The way I see it, at $400 per retube, 5 retubes is a new amp.

The way I see it, without good sounding tubes, you're not getting the potential out of the amp, so what's the point?

It's like running a Ferrari on low-octane gas. It'll run...just not well.

 

[The Fight]

My other question is, what do you do when =C= are simply no longer available? Is there anything comparable?

I don't know...
Mby just go back to EH.
OR! Just talk about the good ol days like Les does! Hahaha jk!

 

[The Fight]

I really wanna try out the =℃= in one of my Splawn quickrods, that way I can get a better idea of what they sound/feel like. Even though I have them in my Friedman, my main amp is the Splawn and it's kinda a pivotal point to my tone judging.

If I do like them enough to possibly buy other set, I just might stock pile a bit.

No, my experience has been that I lose lows and definition. For me the tubes sound more dead, not more scratchy. I can't explain the effect you are describing, but in a technical sense the power transformer doesn't "work". My best guess is that the tube plate resistance increases at end of life, effectively reducing peak output voltage, which could act a bit like a VARIAC.

I've used a Variac style system( not exactly the same thing but similar in nature) and I think your right about that. I really can't explain it but it was so saggy in a good way. I was having so much fun playing Van Halen riffs. But your totally right about the lost definition, the higher notes were realy worbbly with no clarity, but the A chord was super righteous!

 

[László]

OR! Just talk about the good ol days like Les does! Hahaha jk!

They weren't even as good as today was.

But they weren't too bad, either.