BRW vs. IRW

[prsprs]

Hi everyone,

I know BRW is like the holy grail of woods used to make guitars. I have an artist package PRS with IRW neck and I am just wondering if BRW necks are that much better to justify the hefty cost difference. Lately I have been thinking about getting a private stock guitar and one question keeps popping into my head. Do they really sound that much better or is it more for esthetics?

Thanks

 

[mcarty1]

I love my PRS Private Stock ME 1 that has a solid BRW neck. But most that own PRS guitars with both kinds of woods say there is not much difference between the two. I only have the one.

One thing is for sure...you will pay a LOT more for BRW now than you would have in 2007 when I bought mine. And mine was a "demo" model...never taken off a guitar stand, just sat there in a store to look at...so I got a discount when I bought it in 2007.

But it took them a year and a half to get it into the store from PRS! It was a place called Bizarre Guitars in Reno Nevada.

So factor in the cost of BRW before making your purchase. Because prices have went through the roof for BRW because of all the restrictions.

You could ask someone in the PRS Private Stock department about what it would cost to make a guitar with BRW nowdays.....I would have no idea how much they have gone up!

One question...have you considered a used ME1? They are still expensive on places like ebay, but probably a lot cheaper than building a BRW guitar from scratch. You can always replace the pickups if you do not like them.

 

[László]

I think a really good example of a guitar with BRW can have something special going on. I've played a few that sound more lively than any IRW piece I've played.

But was with any wooden instrument, the degree of that difference will vary from piece to piece.

I'm also a big believer in other tone woods, such as Madagascar RW, that I think is very much underrated, though I haven't played one with a Madagascar neck. As a PS customer, you can go into the shop, and have them demonstrate how the woods you select tap and ring out. There may be some examples to play to decide for yourself what you want to order. That's one of the nice things about the PS program.

There's a thread about whether PS sound better. I think they can, if you pick the right woods, and the right pickups, etc. Some people pick 'em for looks, some for tone, some for both. But if you go for tone, I think you have a better shot at a phenomenal sounding guitar with PS. Just my opinion, but I've had good luck with mine.

Best of luck with it!

 

[11top]

I think BRW can sound better, sustain better, and can be prettier (more often than not). I like BRW necks better than any other. However, is it worth the difference is cost? Only you can decide that. Long term, it will be more valuable, but remember that you are also reducing your market if you decide to sell it due to Cites.

 

[mcarty1]

]But I'd advise that they be paired with stoptails and not trems.

Sorry, but I disagree! The private stock ME 1 guitar I spoke of is a double cutaway WITH a trem! Sounds fantastic!

It gets a better sustain than any guitar I have had (trem or stoptail) and paired with the original RP pickups ...it sings....different strokes I guess.

 

[11top]

Sorry, but I disagree! The private stock ME 1 guitar I spoke of is a double cutaway WITH a trem! Sounds fantastic!

It gets a better sustain than any guitar I have had (trem or stoptail) and paired with the original RP pickups ...it sings....different strokes I guess.

And you had me up to "RP pups." They are my least favorite PRS pickup. You are right about different strokes (as it should be. That's why there are different guitar models and different pickups).

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Two points:

I think part of it is the taboo and rare nature of BRW -- having something special. Me, personally, I don't need that, and I suspect when I finally work up the nerve to order a PS guitar, I won't be partaking. I don't hold it against PRS that they utilize BRW lumber -- the problem lies with big paper companies -- toilet paper, tissues, paper towels, paper plates, paper bags, and ... well, paper. They end up bulldozing acres compared to PRS' tiny stock.

The other point is -- one man's better is another man's worse. It's not so much better as different.

 

[django49]

Paper companies are using BRW for toilet paper??? Wall Street is screwing up everything!

FWIW, I have yet to see a CITES certification on my Charmin.

 

[VHTStark]

Better? I suppose that is subjective. When I ordered my private stock SC I was really on the fence about doing the up charge for a BRW neck. I ended up getting them to find a nice and dense piece of Indian that was "Brazilian like". It is a great sounding guitar. I also owned a McCarty with a solid IRW neck.

I can tell you I love the feel of Brazilian. To me it is like the perfect mix of smooth feel (like ebony) but with the warmth of Indian and to my ears....and little more snap and immediacy. My artist package SC with Brazilian fingerboard sounds and plays fantastic and every Modern Eagle 1 I have played has just been lights out.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Paper companies are using BRW for toilet paper??? Wall Street is screwing up everything!

FWIW, I have yet to see a CITES certification on my Charmin.

Alright, alright, maybe they don't, but they're the ones that chopped down the rainforests and put the Brazillian rainforest at risk in the first place, that was my point.

 

[WeFixFlats]

We don't have the budget or the talent to even consider a solid BRW Neck PRS(new or used). However, I was able to buy a near mint used McCarty with the solid IRW Neck from a guy here in Austin off Craigslist and it would be the last one to go of my Core 4 if it came to that situation. A truly great playing and sounding guitar, plugged or unplugged, all because of the Neck wood. That's my 2 cents.

 

[AP515]

I guess I'll offer my $0.02 here.

I have fretboards made of IRW and BRW to compare. Frankly I don't hear a big difference. I do feel and see a difference but not so much for tone.

I do have one BRW neck Cu22 and I did have a IRW neck McCarty to compare it too. Here is the BRW Cu22:

Here is the IRW McCarty

The BRW Cu22 is a better guitar, but the McCarty just wasn't a very impressive guitar tone wise so I can't say it was the IRW as much as it just didn't have the magic. It was beautiful:

but typical of a blonde, it just didn't have much there after you get past the looks (no offense intended to those of you who have blonde companions. I'm sure they are the exceptions). It didn't really hold up against the Mahogany necks I have. The BRW Cu22 does have tone that is different and in some ways preferable to the mahogany necks on the other PRSi, but that doesn't mean the mahogany necks are inferior, just different. The feel however, it very much preferable.

So this is only my opinion, but I'd say a full rosewood neck is worth the upcharge, and if you can swing it, get the BRW, but I don't think my experience with IRW was typical. You can go with the cheaper IRW and be fine.

To finish the story, I traded the IRW McCarty for a 20th Anni SC AP and I'm happy with the trade...

 

[Maertl513]

Interesting topic.

By the way: I saw a documentary on TV which dealt with BRW and other rare woods in books for kids.

My experiences with BRW oder RW in general for sound issues:

I played an EBMM Luke III with RW-Neck and a 513 Rosewood (BRW) of friends.

As far as you know I owned a 513 MT.

I had the chance to compare the 513 Rosewood with my 513 MT.

Indeed acoustically the 513 Rosewood sounds more silky than my mahogany neck 513 MT in comparison. Smoother rosewood frequencies compared to brighter mahogany ones.

But there wasn´t any advance in sustain, attack or anything else.

Amped there wasn´t any tonal difference with has been a direct impact of the neck or fretboard wood. This is all kind of voodoo, mojo, myth. Call it like you want.

How to transfigure the tonal behaviour of wood into a magnetical wave??? This is physics, guys. The metal strings course the changing in the magnetic field around the pickups...
Wood for itself is unmagnetic!

The sound of an electric is driven by the pickups (and their position), nut (tuners) or bridge, measure, strings, and to a certain extent by the neck joint and the mass of the wooden parts (Sure wood oscilates but a electric has to be stiff!).

This is the difference to acoustic guitars where the wood has an large impact (besides the construction) on the sound.

On an electrics wood has optical reasons dominating, maybe haptic because a smooth silky or satin RW neck feels better than a thin laquered whatever wooden neck.

 

[hackenfort]

After reading about the ME1 and everyone loving them, I had to get one. Being in Syracuse NY, there is no way to try something like this, as we don't have a dealer anywhere close and lets just the second hand market here in general thinks Epiphone is upper end. I acquired one thru my typical source - the internet. The guitar arrived in perfect condition, spotless and beautiful. I played it un-amplified and it just sounded dead to me, then I plugged it in and knew it wouldn't be a keeper for me. I had a rosewood limited before I felt the same exact way, beautiful in every respect but lifeless. I have a few guitars with Braz fretboard, I like them a lot, but I'm not sure I can hear the difference in the fretboard. To sum up, I love the feel of the Rosewood neck, but for me Braz can't be cost justified.

 

[veinbuster]

I don't think this question will ever die.
I have a strong preference for Brazilian. I really like the big bottom it has, but I do bias my preferred tone in that direction anyway. I have electrics with Brazilian and Indian rosewood necks. Also acoustics from each. The Brazilians have always been on the top of my list of most satisfying to play.
Also, I like dark chocolate much better than milk chocolate.

Indian can look very good though.

and some dark Brazilian for reference

 

[11top]

After reading about the ME1 and everyone loving them, I had to get one. Being in Syracuse NY, there is no way to try something like this, as we don't have a dealer anywhere close and lets just the second hand market here in general thinks Epiphone is upper end. I acquired one thru my typical source - the internet. The guitar arrived in perfect condition, spotless and beautiful. I played it un-amplified and it just sounded dead to me, then I plugged it in and knew it wouldn't be a keeper for me. I had a rosewood limited before I felt the same exact way, beautiful in every respect but lifeless. I have a few guitars with Braz fretboard, I like them a lot, but I'm not sure I can hear the difference in the fretboard. To sum up, I love the feel of the Rosewood neck, but for me Braz can't be cost justified.

Kevin: Well, since you thought it sounded dead acoustically, my suggestion might not help, but I think the ME1s sound flat with RP pups. I have replaced RPs in all of my ME1s. I really like the tone once I put 59/09s in them.

 

[veinbuster]

I really like the tone once I put 59/09s in them.

I agree that the 59/09s are a very good match with a rosewood neck.

 

[hackenfort]

Steve, thanks and I must agree with the pickup change too. I'm loving the 59.09 - I was looking for a set of RP to try, guess I'll stop looking.....

 

[Tag]

I have had many of each. I like Brazilian because its so rare, but as far as tone goes, I think its crazy to say one sounds better than the other. Both Brazzy and Indian give a low mid hump that can sound a bit muddy, especially with overdrive. That being said, I play clean most of the time, and I adjust the amp with a little less bottom end when using Rosewood necks. I have made A/B/C clips with Brazzy, Indian, and Mahogany, and let me tell you, it is HARD to tell the difference when you are totally honest with yourself. Even between Mahogany and Rosewood, never mind Indian or Brazilian. If you go PS, maybe blind fold yourself and have someone tap on several different neck blanks of each while listening. Go for the one that rings better, although that may not even matter that much in the end.

 

[Brad737]

Personally, I can't tell the tonal difference between a BRW and IRW neck. However, I can tell the difference between BRW and IRW fretboards. I will say that I almost always prefer the look of BRW and I definitely prefer the feel of BRW.