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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by justmund, Apr 21, 2015.
Anyone else caught wind of this bad boy? I could be in for one, looks like a bunch of fun!
Should come into my local store next week, they're going to put it aside for me...
This one even has PRS content
I'll give it to Roland... They never stop trying to make "fetch" happen.
This pedal is totally fetch.
I just wanna make crazy noises with my guitar and have decent tracking
We only use pink pedals on Wednesday. You can't sit with us.
Just watched the video, a coworker who also plays guitar asked how much, he about "fetched" his shorts when we hit the Sweetwater link for it
It is pretty cool, may have to pick up one of these in the future.
Combine this with some of the Moog pedals and you'd have a very powerful guitar synth rig. I always thought the the Moog pedals sounded better behind a synth than behind a straight-in guitar.
Not crazy about the menu diving to work the box, but then they have the computer USB thing happening (too bad it's not via Bluetooth!) to remedy that. Brilliant in any case!
Of course the inevitable SY400 that will come out next year will have Bluetooth and more oscillators...because that's how Roland operates, something new every year after they get your money.
This thing will be a hit.
Just from the clips, I feel like this is a pretty solid filter/effects box, but the oscillators don't particularly impress me. Every single one of the tones these videos demonstrate are filled with sweeping filters and effects, and the ones that aren't like the "fifth lead" tone and the pads are pretty one-dimensional sounding (to my ears).
The latency and tracking with a properly setup and configured GK/MIDI pickup isn't really a problem, Roland figured that out a long time ago, and there are a ton of reasons why a MIDI pup is more flexible and preferable to this. I get that guitar players don't want to mess with adding some wonky pickup on their guitar and that this is kind of an "easy" way to get some synth-like tones out of a guitar rig, but it's not much different than the results you can get with a EH Micro-synth or a POG or something IMO.
The Boss GT series of guitar processors have had similar sounding oscillators as an effect called "guitar synth"(where you could choose from sawtooth, sine, square, etc..) for years. It seems to me like this is an extension of that technology that takes advantage of more DSP power to run multiple instances of the effect with more control of the parameters. It's like "Turbo" Nachos from Taco Bell: The same stuff that comes on a Nacho Bellgrande, add some Cheesy Fiesta Potatoes and the sauce that comes that comes on the Chicken Quesadilla, and call it a revolutionary new product made out of the same ingredients they already have in stock.
I did the guitar synth thing, so I have experience with them. It is my opinion that if you wanna make some crazy sounds... Get a GK pickup, a Roland GR (pick a model) for MIDI conversion and "vanilla" tones, and a Moog Slim Phatty.... Oh, and a keyboard amp.
Good points guys, and will be considering them all when I try the unit out.
The phatty idea has me a little excited Serg!
Better hurry on the Phatty, since the Little Phatty (including rack version) has been discontinued. The Sub37 is terrific, however, so there's that. But remember the Sub37 can only play two notes at once, and the regular Phatty II and the rack version play one note at a time.
So to play a chord...you're SOL unless you buy lots more stuff.
A guy I've partnered with on a ton of projects over the past 20 years has had several of the Roland GR guitar synth floor units, and the pickup. I'm very familiar with them, and they do sound great, though there are significant limitations as well.
Let's face it, guitar synths have to overcome the issue of string tracking, and to date, they have only been able to do so much with that. But things are improving.
The reason I'd get a guitar synth is that it's designed to do a certain thing in relation to string tracking that a keyboard synth doesn't have to deal with. But I'd slap some analog filtering, ring modulation, delay, and some other stuff on the back end of that signal and it would be a ton-crapload of fun.
I'm interested in one to expand our live sound, we play covers from a crap load of genres and something like a GR would help us move into different territory.
We often have players missing so I may need to cover synth lines from time to time too.
Also there's a dude up the road who is doing a metal/electronica crossover he says is going to be "next level" so would be interesting (and fun) jamming with him with some synth action up my sleeve.
Sorry if I sound like a boner about this Boss guitar synth, but it's just because I'm really into electro-mechanical keyboards, synthesizers, synth based, and enhanced music, and I'm passionately opinionated. I'm also hella frustrated with my own attempts at wrangling the nerdy Yeti beast that Western Civilization has thus named: "The Guitar Synthesizer".
I first looked deep into it's red LED eye, and tried to understand the words formulating on it's LCD screen as a young man. I RTFM's and trained like a Warrior Monk. I meditated about how the way your attack, the pressure you placed upon the fretboard, and the need to develop a whole new way of approaching the instrument was more important than how fast the thing tracked or the latency it may have had.
It is almost an entirely unique instrument. It is a guitar failing at impersonating everything that surrounds it, while never really becoming a thing of its own, and slowly destroying the sanity of the person wielding it. It is a sinister creation not unlike the nuclear bomb that mankind hath sown upon themselves. More sinister than the Keytar and feared and reviled more than the EWI (Electronic Wind Instrument/ Those plastic dorky things sax players blow into to sound like a... guitar synthesist?). A creature that upon its inception helped destroy the second greatest synthesizer company the world has ever known. It is a beast not to be trifled with foolishly.
You have been warned.
Yeah the Phatty's been discontinued but there are tons of them used, which I would recommend since there's less of a financial risk. The Sub Phatty is a cool alternative if someone wants to buy something new, but they both have robust MIDI implementation, allowing control of multiple parameters, and most importantly they have analog oscillators.
The polyphony (how many notes you can play at the same time) issue shouldn't be that big of a deal because every video I've seen of people demoing this thing are playing two notes at most. Seriously, look for the parts in these videos where the dudes are playing chords. It's like they're afraid to touch the strings, and the "pad" sounds are all sounding like the "shimmer" effect that's just regenerating delays into a pitch shifter.That's why I suggested Justmund bought a Roland GR(anything) and a pickup so he could interface the Moog while still being able to use the GR(whatever) for chords and PCM vanilla tones. I mean, you gotta have something to plug in to the Phatty...
Check out this video of a fellow PRS guy rocking chords on an ancient Roland GR1.
These things are like $100+ shipping on eBay including the pickup and probably have an equally advanced PCM synth engine in in them. You can also plug it into an audio interface to record/sequence MIDI information to a DAW, print out notation, and trigger kickass soft synths. The Moog is just the icing on top.
Processing a great synth sound is half the battle... and all of the fun! I completely agree with you! But that's the thing that doesn't seem right to me about this Boss box demos: it's all effects. I've got a pile of effects processors to do filters, phasing, delay, distortion, reverb, chorus, flange.... you name it. I think most of us do. What I haven't seen from a demo of this thing is some nice sounding poly sawtooth waves, or even a decent sine wave that didn't sound like it was coming out of a D-50 without the effects. :flute:
I suspect these will get yanked off pedalboards as fast as the EH B-3 pedal thing and Micro-synths. (I say sadly, from personal experience :redface: ) And I'm not meaning to single out your comments or you about this, Les. I'm just yelling at guitar synth.
Maybe The Edge could be brilliant enough to take this thing into battle. I can't think of anybody else who could do it and not be a nerd.
I think it would, or at least be a start in the right direction. The 13pin game is still the way to go as of today.
We share a common appreciation electronic music and I personally believe that the little Boss box isn't what you're after. This thing can't "whomp", it can't play chords, and it don't "wobble".
It may even be time for me to rejoin the battle.
Now you got me thinking about how to hide the GK "box" under the pickguard of my SE EG and still have access to the controls (if I even need those).
Or tear apart the guts of a cheaper Godin or Roland Ready Strat.... Peep George's (Dancing Frog) Private Stock, I think they left a scooped out Variax in a tub of ice to build his synth-ready PS "Afterglow". :call:
You had to be in the biz when they introduced the D-50 in 1987, though, to truly appreciate it. My mind was blown, and I sold a gorgeous Martin M-38 (a very limited edition model with 40 series decor) to get it mine the day I heard it.
Yes, of course that may have been a bad idea! But that D-50 got me deeper into certain styles than any instrument ever had previously for some reason. I wrote so much stuff on mine. It was in my studio from 1987, the month they came out in the US, until probably 2005 or so. I used it for nearly 20 years!
I wasn't in the biz when it came out, but I do appreciate the D50. I was just making the comparison because one of the things that made it so popular was the inclusion of an effects processor in it.
Check out the Graphtech Ghost Hexpander. It may be what you're looking for. (My insert link button isn't showing up. This IPad sucks.)http://www.graphtech.com/products/instruments/guitar/preamps-for-guitar
Oh, yes, definitely!
What blew me away was the combination of sampled sounds (transients mostly) and synth waveforms. No one had ever heard stuff like that before, at least, not in that way! Everyone I knew in advertising had one. There must've been hundreds of ads with some variation of "digital native dance" in the track! LOL. Actually, the choir type sounds were great, too.
If memory serves, Eric Persing, of Stylus RMX and many other products' fame did a lot of the programming.
I did look at that, I did a Graphtech Ghost conversion to a CE-22 a few years ago so knew about the Hexpander kit for that. You still need pitch to MIDI conversion (e.g. GR-something) and the word on the street is the tracking isn't any better than the GK option. It's also quite expensive compared to a GK (which is included with a GR if you want), and the piezo would be redundant for me since you could just trigger sounds in the GR which would sound like (a more authentic) acoustic.
Yup, and everything had that pan-flute sound being all "ethnic" an' sh!t... Where did that sound go? It went instinct, or at least endangered like the sexaphone.