jxe
babe en der wood
‘doubling a vocal track / can make a voice sound stro-on-gerrr’
Best Stage Guitar Amp Ever? (non prs content warning)
- Thread starter littlebadboy
- Start date
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Deleted member 5962
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Full Disclosure: I did play live in front of 1400 people this weekend... and used my Atomic AA3.
But IXNAY on the instant coffee swill.
But IXNAY on the instant coffee swill.
Alnus Rubra
Loving nature’s wonders
To each his/her own, however I’m in favour of pushing that front end of the amp, gaining all those gorgeous overtones, if it squeals, stroke it gently and tell it that’s how it’s supposed to be!
For me there’s something a little sterile in a pre-arranged sound.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just here to make Scott look good!
For me there’s something a little sterile in a pre-arranged sound.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just here to make Scott look good!
elvis
Hamfisted String Banger
To each his/her own, however I’m in favour of pushing that front end of the amp, gaining all those gorgeous overtones, if it squeals, stroke it gently and tell it that’s how it’s supposed to be!
For me there’s something a little sterile in a pre-arranged sound.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just here to make Scott look good!
I actually use a built-in boost effect in front of the amp models in my AXE FX and it behaves like you'd expect a real amp to. I still like my glass, just bought another tube amp, but I don't see gigging them now that I have the axe.
It depends on who profiles it. Seriously, I deflected everything Kemper had until I heard and met Michael Britt. The difference is night and day. And if you get his formula, and understand how to manipulate the system, you get fantastic results. YMMV, but my experience has been amazing.
I also use the Headrush cabs (a pair of 12” 2-way in stereo) and love them at home, at practice, and live.
Huggy Love
Vintage member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2015
- Messages
- 2,766
Huggy Love
Vintage member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2015
- Messages
- 2,766
Dude...that’s hurtful.
.... No, but playing thru a Kemper after just playing thru a Deizel VH4 is.
jxe
babe en der wood
Huggy Love
Vintage member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2015
- Messages
- 2,766
Alnus Rubra
Loving nature’s wonders
A.K.A the Bad Back Bunch!
ViperDoc
Plugged In.
Emulations are trying harder and getting better at sounding like the real thing. I just got back from a band reunion where we record every year, this time through two Helix boards into a Presonus StudioLive mixer into Studio One. They sound killer, but they’re not the real thing by any stretch. Anyone ever used a UA Ox box live?
andy474x
Knows the Drill
I've seen/heard some bands sound fantastic with the guitarists rocking modelers.
I'll admit, the best guitar sounds have still been from tube amps. You see me in the studio, it's a tube amp, no question about it. That being said, especially from local gigging bands, the ones rocking modelers, and often their own sound system, much more often sound better as a band. Modern technology has made live sound a much more repeatable and consistent thing. IMO, that's what the individual musician, especially we instrumentalists, need to keep in mind. Sure, if you're the new Hendrix and everything guitar is the core of your band, maybe you should stick to tube amps. But if the focus of the band is, well... the band, then a modeler guitar system of some kind, as part of a larger full band setup may be the ticket to overall "good sound." A few months back my band played a gig with another band from across the state, they were fairly instrument heavy for a hard rock band, bass, drums, 2 guitars, and keys. But, their guitarists and bassist all played Helixes (or something, didn't get up close and look), and they had their own sound system, so everything was already preset. The guitars had the whole set list pre-programmed into their boards. And they had one of the most polished, precise, acoustically well defined live sets I've probably ever heard from a hard rock band in a small venue. It's a setup I've seen work well before, this was just another example of it being successful.
So, right here, think about all the things that could potentially disturb the balance of a live show. Let's say it's you, and you're old school, gear wise, but trying to put on a modern and polished sounding live show. You show up to the gig with your tube amp, pedalboard, and you're going to let the venue's sound technician handle sound for your band. Well, that's the first issue. The venue's sound "technician" is actually just a sound guy - he's a guy that works at the bar, and knows how to run the beer soaked 1980's Peavey sound system. And when I say knows, I mean he knows how to run a sound system like a person born after 1990 knows how to drive a stick shift - maybe enough to keep it from crashing. He knows how to keep the overall level low enough to not piss off his boss, and if he's nice, he'll try to do a good job balancing your levels, but this guy hasn't exactly gone to college to be a sound engineer, nor has he even attempted to better this aspect of his craft by doing some light online reading. He makes $10/hr working at the bar, you think the owner is going to pay for this skill set? So next, sound guy sees the gaffers tape marks on your cab grill indicating the prime mic position, but he has no interest in what you, who have mic'd this cab a million times, think about that spot. No, he will arbitrarily pick a spot based on who-knows-what, maybe he's looking for the exact spot your amp sounds like muddy $h*t, in which case he will nail it. Meanwhile, you're feverishly pouring over your pedalboard and amp to make sure every little knob is where it should be, in the precious few minutes you have after physically connecting your gear, a chore for which you will make a valiant effort and almost certainly fail. So, now your band is mic'd up, and it's time for sound check. Of course, your drummer hits about 1/17th as hard as he will actually play during the set, so your levels are totally screwed already. Your turn next, you play, and in an act of blissful futility, sound guy sets you up in the mains, as well as in the 3 underpowered monitor wedges that will be split amongst your six piece band. Oh yeah, this is the gig that will put you on the map...
If by now you think I'm being pessimistic about playing gigs, well I've been this idiot a million times, let me tell you it happens! If you don't think so, I would say you have one of three things going for you - 1. you don't play out, 2. your band has gotten good enough to solidly book only at high quality venues, so you know the above places exist, you just worked really hard to get away from them, or 3. you already haul your own sound to gigs and play 4 hour cover sets, so you probably have to get set up and sound checked before the dinner shift... say goodbye to your Saturday daytime.
The reality is, if you want your sound to impress people, you need more than sounding good individually. You need your whole band's sound to be good and reproducible. So, you get an XYZ programmable digital modeling setup for your guitar rig, your band has a digital mixer and speaker system. Every single part of every song, for you, is preset, so all you have to do is step on one button to move to the next patch. Your knobs can't be disturbed in transit, your digital mic position can't be set up wrong by sound guy, your output level to the soundboard is the same it's been for every show before it. The board also has digitally programmed presets, receives exactly what it expects from everyone, keeps input levels the same, and sends exactly what it should to the mains and monitors. It's all about reducing the variables, and the more things you can preset, the fewer variables there are!!!
Last time to the studio a few weekends ago, the tech was telling me about one of the co-owners of his studio. This guy used to work for John Mayer on tour, got scooped up by Adam Levine. Now he's on retainer for Maroon 5 just to be available whenever they need him, and when he actually goes out, gets paid an even larger sum. And do you know what he does? He does their freaking monitor mix!!! That's it!!! They pay a guy year round to be available to do their monitor mix!!! So, just let that sink in - live sound is such a complexity that bands hire people just to do their monitor mix. And yet we insist that we can show up to a bar, crank up our amps and drums, hook in to a different sound system every night, and nail it. I'm not saying it can't happen, but realistically, statistically, it probably won't!
So, that's my take on digital modeling. If you're a big enough deal that you have a pro sound engineer to make you sound great, sure, play that tube amp! If you have the whole afternoon to set up at the bar for your cover gig, sure, play that tube amp! But if you have to roll in to the gig and get set up an hour before the show, and the bar is already full... yeah, maybe you should get a programmable... everything. I'm the type who always enjoys a band most if its whole is bigger than the sum of its parts, so for me, the ones who have a stitched together sound will always take the cake even if their guitar sounds are digitally produced. They're still pretty good sounds, not the absolute best, but there's something about the unison and singular focus of a band that has its own magic, and I think we can lose sight of that as hardcore tone hounds. Do I still play a big @$$ pedalboard and a tube amp? Yep. I don't feel bad about it, because it was a necessity on my path as a guitarist. Until recently, I haven't considered modeling technology to sound good enough to consider it a viable alternative. Not to mention my band didn't have/couldn't afford our own sound system, so relying on whatever sound system was at the venue to be able to hear myself wasn't an option. Now I've got thousands of dollars sunk into this very modular gear, so throwing everything out for a whole new system is a tough pill to swallow, especially when I've got something I really like and can cherry pick pieces that will make it even better. But, if I had to start all over today, I would look HARD at modelers for live use, no question about it. I recently got a Torpedo cab emulator, and I'm already quite sure it will be added to my live arsenal over a physical cab when the occasion allows, so I am taking steps towards reducing those variables.
I'll admit, the best guitar sounds have still been from tube amps. You see me in the studio, it's a tube amp, no question about it. That being said, especially from local gigging bands, the ones rocking modelers, and often their own sound system, much more often sound better as a band. Modern technology has made live sound a much more repeatable and consistent thing. IMO, that's what the individual musician, especially we instrumentalists, need to keep in mind. Sure, if you're the new Hendrix and everything guitar is the core of your band, maybe you should stick to tube amps. But if the focus of the band is, well... the band, then a modeler guitar system of some kind, as part of a larger full band setup may be the ticket to overall "good sound." A few months back my band played a gig with another band from across the state, they were fairly instrument heavy for a hard rock band, bass, drums, 2 guitars, and keys. But, their guitarists and bassist all played Helixes (or something, didn't get up close and look), and they had their own sound system, so everything was already preset. The guitars had the whole set list pre-programmed into their boards. And they had one of the most polished, precise, acoustically well defined live sets I've probably ever heard from a hard rock band in a small venue. It's a setup I've seen work well before, this was just another example of it being successful.
So, right here, think about all the things that could potentially disturb the balance of a live show. Let's say it's you, and you're old school, gear wise, but trying to put on a modern and polished sounding live show. You show up to the gig with your tube amp, pedalboard, and you're going to let the venue's sound technician handle sound for your band. Well, that's the first issue. The venue's sound "technician" is actually just a sound guy - he's a guy that works at the bar, and knows how to run the beer soaked 1980's Peavey sound system. And when I say knows, I mean he knows how to run a sound system like a person born after 1990 knows how to drive a stick shift - maybe enough to keep it from crashing. He knows how to keep the overall level low enough to not piss off his boss, and if he's nice, he'll try to do a good job balancing your levels, but this guy hasn't exactly gone to college to be a sound engineer, nor has he even attempted to better this aspect of his craft by doing some light online reading. He makes $10/hr working at the bar, you think the owner is going to pay for this skill set? So next, sound guy sees the gaffers tape marks on your cab grill indicating the prime mic position, but he has no interest in what you, who have mic'd this cab a million times, think about that spot. No, he will arbitrarily pick a spot based on who-knows-what, maybe he's looking for the exact spot your amp sounds like muddy $h*t, in which case he will nail it. Meanwhile, you're feverishly pouring over your pedalboard and amp to make sure every little knob is where it should be, in the precious few minutes you have after physically connecting your gear, a chore for which you will make a valiant effort and almost certainly fail. So, now your band is mic'd up, and it's time for sound check. Of course, your drummer hits about 1/17th as hard as he will actually play during the set, so your levels are totally screwed already. Your turn next, you play, and in an act of blissful futility, sound guy sets you up in the mains, as well as in the 3 underpowered monitor wedges that will be split amongst your six piece band. Oh yeah, this is the gig that will put you on the map...
If by now you think I'm being pessimistic about playing gigs, well I've been this idiot a million times, let me tell you it happens! If you don't think so, I would say you have one of three things going for you - 1. you don't play out, 2. your band has gotten good enough to solidly book only at high quality venues, so you know the above places exist, you just worked really hard to get away from them, or 3. you already haul your own sound to gigs and play 4 hour cover sets, so you probably have to get set up and sound checked before the dinner shift... say goodbye to your Saturday daytime.
The reality is, if you want your sound to impress people, you need more than sounding good individually. You need your whole band's sound to be good and reproducible. So, you get an XYZ programmable digital modeling setup for your guitar rig, your band has a digital mixer and speaker system. Every single part of every song, for you, is preset, so all you have to do is step on one button to move to the next patch. Your knobs can't be disturbed in transit, your digital mic position can't be set up wrong by sound guy, your output level to the soundboard is the same it's been for every show before it. The board also has digitally programmed presets, receives exactly what it expects from everyone, keeps input levels the same, and sends exactly what it should to the mains and monitors. It's all about reducing the variables, and the more things you can preset, the fewer variables there are!!!
Last time to the studio a few weekends ago, the tech was telling me about one of the co-owners of his studio. This guy used to work for John Mayer on tour, got scooped up by Adam Levine. Now he's on retainer for Maroon 5 just to be available whenever they need him, and when he actually goes out, gets paid an even larger sum. And do you know what he does? He does their freaking monitor mix!!! That's it!!! They pay a guy year round to be available to do their monitor mix!!! So, just let that sink in - live sound is such a complexity that bands hire people just to do their monitor mix. And yet we insist that we can show up to a bar, crank up our amps and drums, hook in to a different sound system every night, and nail it. I'm not saying it can't happen, but realistically, statistically, it probably won't!
So, that's my take on digital modeling. If you're a big enough deal that you have a pro sound engineer to make you sound great, sure, play that tube amp! If you have the whole afternoon to set up at the bar for your cover gig, sure, play that tube amp! But if you have to roll in to the gig and get set up an hour before the show, and the bar is already full... yeah, maybe you should get a programmable... everything. I'm the type who always enjoys a band most if its whole is bigger than the sum of its parts, so for me, the ones who have a stitched together sound will always take the cake even if their guitar sounds are digitally produced. They're still pretty good sounds, not the absolute best, but there's something about the unison and singular focus of a band that has its own magic, and I think we can lose sight of that as hardcore tone hounds. Do I still play a big @$$ pedalboard and a tube amp? Yep. I don't feel bad about it, because it was a necessity on my path as a guitarist. Until recently, I haven't considered modeling technology to sound good enough to consider it a viable alternative. Not to mention my band didn't have/couldn't afford our own sound system, so relying on whatever sound system was at the venue to be able to hear myself wasn't an option. Now I've got thousands of dollars sunk into this very modular gear, so throwing everything out for a whole new system is a tough pill to swallow, especially when I've got something I really like and can cherry pick pieces that will make it even better. But, if I had to start all over today, I would look HARD at modelers for live use, no question about it. I recently got a Torpedo cab emulator, and I'm already quite sure it will be added to my live arsenal over a physical cab when the occasion allows, so I am taking steps towards reducing those variables.
jxe
babe en der wood
andy474x
Knows the Drill
Huggy Love
Vintage member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2015
- Messages
- 2,766
Now Andy didn't we tell you to lay off the caffeine before you post here.........
..... the first sentence was perfect tho.
This! You get it.
Right??!! I even have a little work that needs attention. Andy, you close to Indianapolis?
