Best PRS addition to a Les Paul - CE/S2/SE/Core or....?

M

mojolang

New Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2019
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6
Hello All,

First post.

So because I am a fool, I decided to snatch up a set of Thorbak SLE 101 plus pickups for a Navigator Les Paul. when I already have antiquities that are great and also wound on a Leesona. They will replace the antiquities - but I also really like the ants and would like to throw them in a PRS to allow for a little tonal variety. Seems pointless to buy another LP. But would like pattern/wide fat/DGT neck.

So after considering options, this is what I'm looking at:
  • Used CE22 - this seems to be the PRS fanboy's recommendation; lots of CE's from the 90's early/00's can be had for 800-1k and the reviews seem very high. I would mod this, as with others with concentric pot to allow for multi volumes a la DGT.
  • S2 Standard or Custom - seems a lot of guitar for value, set neck, etc., same mod. The internet seems to indicate the former is a better choice. Would be slightly less than first option.
  • Santana SE Standard 2018 - from everything I see, from binding to 22 frets on standard to shorter scale and attainable for ~$400, this seems an incredible value.
  • DGT Standard - no mod, good resale on grissom pickups. Not the biggest fan of nitro on the hands, particularly when there is a poly undercoat....also most cost prohibitive option.
Money isn't really the issue, best bang for buck is.

Recommendations encouraged, but no hoodoo please (scooped body contours for pots doesn't make the thing play better ;))

Anyway, I guess the question is - is there any real playability reason to buy core anymore if an SE model exists and you can make a few tweaks? Whenever I see people talking about this on TGP, here, duncan forum, etc. people will talk about consistency but the SE reviews seem glowing. I'm just not sure what the rationale of getting a core series is if you can make some mods and with the rise of CNC machines etc.

Cheers.
 
Based on your findings, I guess I’m in the minority because I’ve never played a SE that I think is all that close to a Core.

Since you said money isn’t a huge issue, I recommend a used Core. For similar yet different from a Les Paul, I recommend the McCarty. For more differences, an older CE or Custom 22
 
Why in your experience is SE not close to core? Here is where things get abstract....concrete please, for instance:

Resonance
Fretwork
Truss rod issues
Intonation
Hardware

Etc.
 
To me it goes this way -
When you find a really nice inexpensive guitar it is easy to be impressed even wowed !!! as the price goes up it is easy to be more priticular or critical.
I've played some really nice SEs
I have also played a CE or 2 and they are nice guitars.
I own a Killer S2 Vela , I like it better than my Core Mira or Starla but I believe this is more about Pickup combo and neck shape than quality.
For me there is a difference between the above and all my core guitars, call it response , ease of play , call it mojo.
If it was me instead of a DGT and the premium they bring I would look at a used McCarty as your platform
PS I'd be interested in the Grissom pickups if you go that way :)
 
LOL, it’s not that abstract. I’ve played probably 1 or 2 dozen SEs over the years and even owned 1. Some were pretty good but some were real heavy, didn’t feel that great, etc. Unless they’ve been messed with by a previous owner, the Cores are more consistent and have nicer hardware and electronics right out of the gate.

Is this one of those posts where you just wanted everybody to tell you to buy and mod an SE? If so, yes! Go for it!
 
mojolang said:
Why in your experience is SE not close to core? Here is where things get abstract....concrete please, for instance:

Resonance
Fretwork
Truss rod issues ( Not really an Issue )
Intonation ( Never seen an issue here )
Hardware

Etc.
Click to expand...

For me is is all of the above SEs are GREAT $700 guitars better than Epiphone , Fender etc ( IMHO ) and they are a nice platform to mod and improve on add a new Nut , Mann Bridge , upgraded electronics and you could have a world beater ( or just a beater ). many folks can get an SE and be happy for life and that is great , Some need more or different things from there gear.
The reason I went all PRS is once I found out how easy they were to play it made my playing better made getting my sound easier no more fighting for sustain no more compressors, no more adjusting my guitars all the time. No more modding my guitars to make it "better"
 
Would prefer trem, so McCarty prol not the way.

Not a thread where I’m looking for people to say buy SE.

Perhaps I understand what you’re saying. I’ve played some new Gibson’s, the feel of which were heavy, not responant, just overall build quality the quantity of which added to quality. So if that’s something to be aware of with SE, the CE is kind of a no brainer. That said I’ve heard the new Santanas have lightweight mahogany.
 
Ah, I see - if you prefer trem, DGT or McCarty trem. Even used, these would be pretty expensive though.

I think a used CE22 or Custom 22 with your preferred neck would be your best bets. $1000-2000 depending on which model, the top, the condition, and the deal you can find. And don’t assume all those ridiculously priced guitars on Reverb are actually selling for the listed amounts.
 
What makes a guitar great isn’t just some wood, some metal, and some pickups. How is the wood aged and dried? How is it selected? What quality is chosen? How much attention to detail in assembly? What’s the design and quality of the hardware that touches and affects the strings? I could go on, but you get the picture.

Things like tone and resonance are subjective, and different players have varying needs. I find the Core models more resonant and toneful than the others, and the hardware and stock pickups are the nicest that PRS turns out. The Cores and S2s are roughly comparable in playability, though more attention to detail happens with Core.

The hardware touches the strings and affects tone. The wood resonates and affects tone. It all matters, the Core models certainly have the whole thing covered without much compromise.

Bang for buck - well, how much buck, and how much bang? How selective are you? It’s hard to quantify satisfaction, and everyone’s idea of value is different.

With an S2 you get PRS’ Maryland wood selection and finish. The compromise is made with the other stuff, hardware and pickups, and those things can be changed. I think the wood and how it’s aged and dried is important to resonance and tone, so S2 would certainly be good bang for buck.

For me, Core and Private Stock are the best bang for bucks, because you get everything, and I’m a guy who cares about all that. Long term satisfaction matters in terms of what constitutes value in an instrument - for me, one guy who certainly doesn’t speak for everyone. The SEs are a bargain, but here the whole guitar represents a degree of compromise. However, lots of folks love them.

On the other hand, you may disagree with all I’ve said, and no amount of discussion may alter your view. For example, you seem to be perfectly happy with a Navigator/ESP Les Paul copy instead of a real Les Paul, and in terms of the vintage tone that lots of folks want from an LP, the two aren’t truly comparable - maybe you found one that’s unusually good, maybe you aren’t all that picky, or into that tone thing; one can only guess.

To make a weird analogy, you can trick out a Honda and it’ll be a fun toy. You can buy a Ferrari and it’ll have a degree of sophistication in handling, materials, engineering, engine, and build the Honda can’t touch, but both will get you to work on time. Which would give you the most satisfaction, and therefore the most bang? And how much are you willing to pay to get that bang? one thing’s for sure: no matter how much you tinker with and mod that Honda, it’s never going to be the Ferrari.

My takeaway is that if the idea of “bang” is a moving target that no two people share identically, and no two people value money in exactly the same way, the idea of bang for buck is awfully hard to define.
 
Last edited:
The wood on the SE's isn't as dry. I own 5, and they need more adjustment than my core, about every 20 degree temperature shift. The neck moves. The fretwork on my core is ridiculous, most of my SE's have been to the luthier to have work above the octave. None of my core have. Yes, the core electronics are better, but you're going to replace those any way. The neck shape would be the biggest deal in my mind. Every one of my PRSi are a little different. My 2 S2's are the most similar. Find a guitar that has the neck you like, and don't think about which model it is. There are no guarantees what will be the best for you. There are some magnificent guitars out there that will be well within your budget.
 
LSchefman said:
What makes a guitar great isn’t just some wood, some metal, and some pickups. How is the wood aged and dried? How is it selected? What quality is chosen? How much attention to detail in assembly? What’s the design and quality of the hardware that touches and affects the strings? I could go on, but you get the picture.

Things like tone and resonance are subjective, and different players have varying needs. I find the Core models more resonant and toneful than the others, and the hardware and stock pickups are the nicest that PRS turns out. The Cores and S2s are roughly comparable in playability, though more attention to detail happens with Core.

The hardware touches the strings and affects tone. The wood resonates and affects tone. It all matters, the Core models certainly have the whole thing covered without much compromise.

Bang for buck - well, how much buck, and how much bang? How selective are you? It’s hard to quantify satisfaction, and everyone’s idea of value is different.

With an S2 you get PRS’ Maryland wood selection and finish. The compromise is made with the other stuff, hardware and pickups, and those things can be changed. I think the wood and how it’s aged and dried is important to resonance and tone, so S2 would certainly be good bang for buck.

For me, Core and Private Stock are the best bang for bucks, because you get everything, and I’m a guy who cares about all that. Long term satisfaction matters in terms of what constitutes value in an instrument - for me, one guy who certainly doesn’t speak for everyone. The SEs are a bargain, but here the whole guitar represents a degree of compromise. However, lots of folks love them.

On the other hand, you may disagree with all I’ve said, and no amount of discussion may alter your view. For example, you seem to be perfectly happy with a Navigator/ESP Les Paul copy instead of a real Les Paul, and in terms of the vintage tone that lots of folks want from an LP, the two aren’t truly comparable - maybe you found one that’s unusually good, maybe you aren’t all that picky, or into that tone thing; one can only guess.

To make a weird analogy, you can trick out a Honda and it’ll be a fun toy. You can buy a Ferrari and it’ll have a degree of sophistication in handling, materials, engineering, engine, and build the Honda can’t touch, but both will get you to work on time. Which would give you the most satisfaction, and therefore the most bang? And how much are you willing to pay to get that bang? one thing’s for sure: no matter how much you tinker with and mod that Honda, it’s never going to be the Ferrari.

My takeaway is that if the idea of “bang” is a moving target that no two people share identically, and no two people value money in exactly the same way, the idea of bang for buck is awfully hard to define.
Click to expand...

I agree with your point but to insinuate a Navigator isn’t a Les Paul is simply ignorance. The fit, finish, build and materials are higher than anything Gibson is churning out except for historics that break the bank. But back to the subject at hand....what you’re saying actually is quantifiable, but the general thrust of your argument is generally correct....
 
If it were me, I'd go with Core DGT first. I doubt you'll need to modify it or replace the pickups. But if you want to use those pickups you already own, i'd choose the CE next.
 
Way back when, I found a CU22 to be a good companion to my Les Paul.

Today, I would say DGT. In part because having just played mine I was reminded what a fantastic range it has. And I like those big frets.
 
mojolang said:
I agree with your point but to insinuate a Navigator isn’t a Les Paul is simply ignorance. The fit, finish, build and materials are higher than anything Gibson is churning out except for historics that break the bank. But back to the subject at hand....what you’re saying actually is quantifiable, but the general thrust of your argument is generally correct....
Click to expand...

I’m the picky guy who bought the Historic stuff when I was still playing Gibsons years ago, so I’d agree the comparison probably wasn’t apples/apples.

The lone Gibson still hanging around at my place is a ‘65 SG Special. Different era of Gibby manufacture, different world. Bought new by my brother, btw, so i felt obligated to keep it. I like PRSes much more. I think I got my last Gibson in 2005.
 
Diff beasts. But from what I can tell as production guitars PRSs far exceed their Gibson brethren. I’d be much more likely to play a McCarty, 345 or 245 than a US Les Paul from the last 15 years....
 
sergiodeblanc said:
SE=Street hooker
S2=Craigslist sex worker
Core=Brothel babe
Private Stock=Escort to the stars

Something like that?
Click to expand...

Ooh, so far I'm down for 2 street hookers and a brothel babe! Of course since I'm a cheep bastage, mine were all, umm...well versed in the ways of music before I became their Pimp Daddy.
 
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