Attention Relic-Makers

[László]

I don't hate relic'd guitars. But if you're going to do one, at least make it look like an old guitar.

I see some of these things and it reminds me of a kid wearing "old person" makeup and a gray wig. These things don't fool anyone.

You want to know what a 48 year old guitar, that was gigged heavily since 1965 for real, looks like? One that was played daily by teenagers, who grew older and then gave the guitar to their own kids? One that sat in Michigan winters in vans for days between gigs when the owner was in college, and was taken into warm party rooms and bars without letting the case come to room temperature, ever?

One that a certain young player took to high school gigs on a Detroit bus? That made the Sweet Sixteen backyard, garage and basement party circuit in 1966? That was in a real garage band in the real garage band era? LOL. Literally!!!

One that lived in dorm rooms, and gigged frat parties, and played in seedy bars, and got beer spilled on it, and cigarettes stuck in its headstock between the strings and the wood? One that went on strange "trips" in the 60s and played outdoor festivals, indoor shows, and many ad gigs? One that's actually painted with nitro, and not faked to look like nitro? One that lived in several kids' rooms while they were learning to play guitar? One that was not treated gently or babied ever in its existence?

One that jammed out with my brother's band, then my band, then my son's punk band...lived in my girls' rooms for a while as decor between all that...

Well, sir or madam, I happen to be very familiar with just such a guitar, the one I learned on, my brother learned on, my kids learned on, that was in my possession since my brother gave it to me in 1966. It's at my brother's house now, where this pic was taken, complete with its original 1965 case that once fell out the back of a station wagon and was undamaged! This is what a real relic looks like:




By the way, there are no finish touch ups on that guitar. The fingerboard was never oiled. The only thing on it that isn't original besides the 1970 tune o matic is the switch tip. The original crumbled to dust. It wasn't nearly as yellow as the new one. I made a mistake getting one that was supposed to look old.

You know what the problem is? Real relics don't look like they're "supposed to", they just look like used guitars.

 

[WEDGE]

To play devils advocate.........I like the relic looking guitar posted recently a lot ........I would not be trying to fake years of gigging by having one , I merely dig the look.

I question the point of the obvious jab at a dealer who supports the forum and the brand by blatantly slamming his product and calling out his guitar and describing its features almost to the point of naming it by name......the timing of this rant is highly suspect after the post of what I thought was a killer looking guitar. It may not be your cup of tea but why the need to force your opinion of it, and by association the dealer, down everyone else's throat?

I respect the crap out of that guitar you posted and the back story you have with it. But why hate on anyone else who creates a particular looking guitar? If you don't like the guitar someone created and is trying to sell merely keep it to yourself and don't sh!t on someone else's livelihood.......

 

[veinbuster]

I agree that many relics don't look the same as natural wear and I know that PRS's don't age in quite the way that the white one Brian showed was done - and I know that Brian knows this as well. I do find the look quite interesting though and I'm a big fan of the look of a Murphy Les Paul gold top. Both are relics I would consider owning.

I've never seen anything reliced quite like this, which is natural wear over 50 years, about 40 of it mine.

 

[AP515]

I question the point of the obvious jab at a dealer who supports the forum and the brand by blatantly slamming his product and calling out his guitar and describing its features almost to the point of naming it by name......the timing of this rant is highly suspect after the post of what I thought was a killer looking guitar. It may not be your cup of tea but why the need to force your opinion of it, and by association the dealer, down everyone else's throat?......

My complicity in the previous thread was not intended at the dealer. I'm glad he is there and I hope he sells the guitar in question and both the dealer and the patron are eternally happy with it. My apologies as well for posting in a thread that was derailed into a side conversation that surely would have been better to start in another thread as was done here.

In our defense, Brian kind of left the door open when he mentioned what PRSH thought of it. My original thought is also applicable here. I have no problem with any dealer or any buyer doing anything they like to a guitar they own. I also think well-earned scars are a badge of honor. Creating those scars is like stealing and displaying a purple heart. It's just not the same.

A couple years ago I was watching a warm up band play while waiting for my friends band which was the featured band that night at a club in Raleigh. The guitarist was playing a CE24 and he was jumping around on stage. I was a little surprised when he bumped it into a mic stand. I watched as he did it a few more times and as they were finishing their last song, he took it off and carefully threw it onto the floor. That's when I figured it out. He was trying to "naturally relic" his PRS. IMO those scars are still unearned. He's just trying to steal a purple heart.

 

[László]

To play devils advocate.........I like the relic looking guitar posted recently a lot ........I would not be trying to fake years of gigging by having one , I merely dig the look.

I question the point of the obvious jab at a dealer who supports the forum and the brand by blatantly slamming his product and calling out his guitar and describing its features almost to the point of naming it by name......the timing of this rant is highly suspect after the post of what I thought was a killer looking guitar. It may not be your cup of tea but why the need to force your opinion of it, and by association the dealer, down everyone else's throat?

I respect the crap out of that guitar you posted and the back story you have with it. But why hate on anyone else who creates a particular looking guitar? If you don't like the guitar someone created and is trying to sell merely keep it to yourself and don't sh!t on someone else's livelihood.......

Wedge, I purposely didn't post in the dealer's sale thread, and I read it well before Hans posted and said that people who didn't like it should start a thread elsewhere.

That's what I did. This is "elsewhere."

I honestly don't think my post is any more controversial than Paul's comment that Brian quoted in the title of his thread himself. Brian will sell that guitar quickly I'm sure.

However, I just edited it down to make it less sharply worded because I do see your point.

In any event, I presented a picture of what I think is a typical well-loved and used guitar, whose history and provenance I am well aware of. I have seen many, many such instruments. Most of us have.

If it's me, and I wanted the look of an old PRS, I think I'd buy a used one. But that's just me.

 

[jfb]

Really awesome guitars guys.

I liked the guitar in question as well.

 

[rugerpc]

This is one of those topics that brings out visceral feelings for some, me included. It's not like asking what string gauge you prefer - which is a valid poll, but not nearly as emotional as this topic. Is it appropriate to this forum?

WHY THE H*** NOT?

This is a forum. We have opinions. Are we only to post when we like or absolutely love something? Never allowed to say that it just doesn't work for me? If it has to be all gushingly wonderful, I think we are missing something.

There have been guitars pictured here that people have OOoooed and Ahhhhed over that I actually thought were quite unattractive. Because the owners were proud of them, I held my tongue. Whatever floats their boat is fine and doesn't affect me. I did post in Brian's thread an pooped on his guitar, but then deleted my comment after it was pointed out that I was basically standing in someone's store pointing out stuff that I don't like in front of other customers. Wrong setting I admit and thus my deletion.

But are we constrained from talking about things we don't like at all just because someone posted something that they do like?

REALLY?

Les's topic is timely because he had a point to make. He didn't make it in someones showroom floor. He did it here, with more class than I showed before my deletion. To tell him to look the other way and not bring it up doesn't sit with me.

Your mileage may vary. Not for the other use. Warning: choking hazard.

 

[Kine]

Too each their own. It would suck if we all liked the same guitar.

 

[László]

This is one of those topics that brings out visceral feelings for some, me included. It's not like asking what string gauge you prefer - which is a valid poll, but not nearly as emotional as this topic. Is it appropriate to this forum?

WHY THE H*** NOT?

This is a forum. We have opinions. Are we only to post when we like or absolutely love something? Never allowed to say that it just doesn't work for me? If it has to be all gushingly wonderful, I think we are missing something.

There have been guitars pictured here that people have OOoooed and Ahhhhed over that I actually thought were quite unattractive. Because the owners were proud of them, I held my tongue. Whatever floats their boat is fine and doesn't affect me. I did post in Brian's thread an pooped on his guitar, but then deleted my comment after it was pointed out that I was basically standing in someone's store pointing out stuff that I don't like in front of other customers. Wrong setting I admit and thus my deletion.

But are we constrained from talking about things we don't like at all just because someone posted something that they do like?

REALLY?

Les's topic is timely because he had a point to make. He didn't make it in someones showroom floor. He did it here, with more class than I showed before my deletion. To tell him to look the other way and not bring it up doesn't sit with me.

Your mileage may vary. Not for the other use. Warning: choking hazard.

Visceral. Perfect choice of words.

Certainly churns my guts!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I get so mad at other peoples guitars.

 

[Rango]

What Ruger said....

I also deleted my post in the dealer thread... I didn't think what was said was a personal attack but I'm not looking to cause hurt feelings. I felt the dealer knew there was some controversy with that guitar and was inviting debate with his quoting of PRSh.

I do believe if we are not allowed to respectfully descent then the value of the forum is diminished.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

I do believe if we are not allowed to respectfully descent then the value of the forum is diminished.

True. No one has asked a single person to delete their comments. Nor have comments been deleted. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to elevate the way we interact around here.

There is a difference between posting your negative opinion in a thread like this and posting your negative opinion directly on a guys sale thread. That is the man's livelihood.

Sale thread etiquitte is simple: If you don't like the guitar or the price tag, move on.

 

[rugerpc]

Sale thread etiquitte is simple: If you don't like the guitar or the price tag, move on.

reasonable and fair.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

I did post in Brian's thread an pooped on his guitar, but then deleted my comment after it was pointed out that I was basically standing in someone's store pointing out stuff that I don't like in front of other customers. Wrong setting I admit and thus my deletion.

Exactly.

But are we constrained from talking about things we don't like at all just because someone posted something that they do like?

REALLY?

I am struggling to understand these two comments in the same post. On one hand you understand perfectly and move your comments to this thread.

On the other hand you infer that you are constrained - which is an interesting argument considering the fact that no one, not one single person, was asked to delete their post. Nor was a single post deleted.

All I did was question the location of the posts. This notion of constraint or control is self-imposed. Is integrity a constraint? Good manners? I am guided by my sense of truth and justice. Is that a self-imposed constraint? More to the point, if I am ASKED (not directed) to reconsider my actions, have I been forced to do something against my will?

Yes, this is a forum. Open dialogue is critical but bad form won't go unanswered. Apparently everyone is welcome to post their opinion except me. Why?

Mods who IMPOSE their opinion might deserve such a response but I've done nothing more than submit my opinion on the matter. Your conscience has done the rest. Lesser men would have ignored me.

 

[Rango]

True. No one has asked a single person to delete their comments. Nor have comments been deleted. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to try to elevate the way we interact around here.

There is a difference between posting your negative opinion in a thread like this and posting your negative opinion directly on a guys sale thread. That is the man's livelihood.

Sale thread etiquitte is simple: If you don't like the guitar or the price tag, move on.

Sorry I didn't take the dealer threads as standard "For Sale".... And I follow that rule on other forums.

You don't think he was inviting comments with his quote from PRSh? That's how I took it...

Why not just end the drama and make it dealers only can post in the dealer forum - easy - done - end of issue?

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Why not just end the drama and make it dealers only can post in the dealer forum - easy - done - end of issue?

Because there is value in rising to the occasion.

 

[Danerada]

So anyway...that SG in the OP is CHOICE!!!!!

 

[rugerpc]

Sorry, Hans - my comments were directed at Wedge for taking Les to task in starting this thread.

They have nothing whatsoever to do with any moderator or any suggestion about deleting comments or any actual deleting of comments. They have nothing to do with your opinion posted in the other thread - which I agree with once I hit myself in the head a few times for being tactless. My comments here are about Wedge objecting to the existence of this thread.

I'm not mad at Wedge and I don't have an ax to grind with any moderator. Quite the opposite.

My only point is I just saw a potential for a problem that I care about and that is the watering down of our discussions to short posts of superlatives and smiley faces.

Les is unhappy about the execution of 'reliced' guitars in general. Wedge is unhappy Les brought it up. I'm unhappy that Wedge said so. You're unhappy because you thought I was talking about you.

Topics like this get messy. But I still think they belong here and that we can get past miscommunications if we care and try.

for the record:
I also don't feel constrained by any moderator. Nor do I think that moderators should avoid expressing their own opinions. When applied to everyone, that's kinda my point.

 

[]-[@n$0Ma☩!©]

Topics like this get messy. But I still think they belong here and that we can get past miscommunications if we care and try.

Roger that!

 

[László]

One fun story about the guitar is the agreement that Robert and I had when he gave me the guitar. It was something like, "If I want it back, I'll let you know." At the time, we were both still in high school. Now, we're, shall we say, "men of a certain age."

The world has changed an awful lot since 1966.

But deals brothers make with each other seem to last a very long time.

So periodically, he'd see the guitar at my studio, or somewhere in my house, and he'd ask about it, and I'd dutifully say, "Do you want it back?" And he'd say, "No, not now. I'll let you know if I need it." This particular thread of conversation only persisted for 43 or so years...

Not too long ago, his son took up guitar. So I said, "Take the guitar back and jam out with your son." And, after making sure I was set with what I had, he said, "OK." Well, his son didn't really stick with it, but he's really happy he has his old guitar back. And I'm really, really happy that he has his old axe back.

And yes, on occasion we get together and play. It's a pretty cool thing after all these years.