Archon Head / Tons of mid range

[bvaladez74]

Anyone have an opinion on the natural EQ curve / Voicing of the Archon?

I just spend a few days dialing the amp in....and played 2 gigs with it...on a huge stage this last weekend. I'm a gigging musician...with a really heavy schedule....cover band stuff with a wide range of tones I pull out of my hat, every night. I play mainly musicman axis guitars and strats. One night I used the amp on it's own with a few pedals in front and an EQ and delay in the loop and the other night I ran the 4CM with my POD HD500x to compare.

The amp on it's own has an incredible amount of unwanted high mids...honky mids that can't really be dialed out, even with the mid knob all the way off. Seems about the 1k range is the culprit. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a "scooped mid" type of player...however...a smooth, even flat EQ to start is a requirement. I've tried 2 of these heads...one in a store and one I ordered and same result. The 2 I played on multiple guitars on 2 different rigs...sounds NOTHING like the demo videos produced by PRS with Zach Myers and Tremonti playing through them.

If I played my strat all night on the neck pickup, this thing would be amazing on it's own, out of the box with no "helpers" to smooth out the nasely frequencies....but for a rock to high gain rock tone...with humbuckers...for me, the amp is NOT usable unless I run at least a 10band EQ in the loop pulling down a couple different mid frequencies.

I'm looking for similar experiences. Set aside the idea of "This amp is sooo badass solely cuz it's a PRS". I love PRS all around...but be impartial and only speak off the tone you've experienced out of the box. Anyone have the same issue?

Thanks.

 

[Jazzedout]

Interesting...
Do you want to share how you are dialing the amp? I mean how the knobs are set (masters, depth and presence controls and individual channels).
It would help people with an Archon understand better.
Maybe the key is not in the midrange control...

 

[László]

1 kHz is generally around the upper end of what we define as "midrange" in audio production, but it might be covered by the treble control in a guitar amp, as there is no precise rule about where midrange ends and upper mids begin.

In fact, guitar amps aren't able to reproduce frequencies above 5KHz, and true high frequencies begin at 4.5 KHz. 1.2kHz - 4.5 kHz being defined in most cases as upper mids but on a guitar amp are generally covered by the treble control.

Here's my question - if you heard the frequency emphasis that you don't care for in the store, why'd you go ahead and order one in the first place? It always puzzles me why people buy something they ought to know they won't care for, and then complain about it later.

I'm assuming that you've tried the presence control also.

 

[bvaladez74]

@LSchefman...
I went to a GC and tried a 2nd one after I purchased mine (sorry to confuse). Even so, it's hard to judge in a store...where you're playing a dry head in a scenario that's not integrated in your existing rig...so it's always a chance or risk....trying out a new head once you get it introduced to a real live situation. And presence almost always adds more upper mid range than treble does. In most amp situations.

@jazzedout
Doesn't matter how it's dialed. Whether it's everything at 12 oclock..or the mids all the way down...treble at 9 oclock, presense at about 9, bass maybe 10, gain about half way up. It has an over abundance of upper mids in all settings.

Guys...it's not a matter of how the amp is set. That's not the issue. I definitely have many years experience dialing in great tones on many different types of rigs. I'm looking for anyone experiencing the same tonal situation of the box....or after they've gigged with it.

Thanks.

 

[Blackbird]

Guys...it's not a matter of how the amp is set. That's not the issue. I definitely have many years experience dialing in great tones on many different types of rigs. I'm looking for anyone experiencing the same tonal situation of the box....or after they've gigged with it.

Thanks.

I've used mine pretty extensively for the past 8 months, live and in studio. My experience has been that the amp is inherently dark. I'm not sure what kind of music you play but I go for heavy, balanced tones with lots of gain, with very little mid scoop so I can still cut through. The depth, presence, and bright switch are the most sensitive and relevant controls to shaping my tone, on this amp.

What cab are you using?

In general, 4cm, especially with a Pod5000, is going to really kill your tone and make things sound like poop.

I would just run the amp with a basic guitar-amp-cab setup--see if you can successfully dial-in your needs--then try to incorporate the rest of your rig and see where the big differences appear.

 

[bvaladez74]

@Blackbird: Like I said above...I've tested with and without a pod. Generally when I test, it's direct into the head, nothing in between. I have 1x12 orange cabs (V30's) and testing with my 4x12 Marshall (GT1275's).

If you have a hard time dialing in more modern gear like with a POD and a real amp...then you could get a **** tone with a POD using the 4CM. That's not the case here. I actually get an amazing tone with this head ONLY with the POD integrated...cuz I can take advantage of the built in EQ's. But that aside...

I'll say this again, respectfully. I'm not looking for a "fix" as someone lacking experience or knowledge. I'm a touring musician, pro...for many years. I definitely know EQ, engineering and gear like the back of my hand.

Everything you use effects your EQ curve, cables/cab/pickups/body wood/ohms/etc. Totally understandable...but right off the bat, this doesn't have what I hear as a flat EQ...it's very heavy on the high mid end. Far more than any of my other amps: Bogner Shiva, Egnater Armageddon, EVH 5150 III

I'm just looking for similar experiences in an out of the box or gigging situation with this amp, prior to returning it.

Thanks guys.

 

[Blackbird]

@Blackbird: Like I said above...I've tested with and without a pod. Generally when I test, it's direct into the head, nothing in between. I have 1x12 orange cabs (V30's) and testing with my 4x12 Marshall (GT1275's).

If you have a hard time dialing in more modern gear like with a POD and a real amp...then you could get a **** tone with a POD using the 4CM. That's not the case here. I actually get an amazing tone with this head ONLY with the POD integrated...cuz I can take advantage of the built in EQ's. But that aside...

I'll say this again, respectfully. I'm not looking for a "fix" as someone lacking experience or knowledge. I'm a touring musician, pro...for many years. I definitely know EQ, engineering and gear like the back of my hand.

Everything you use effects your EQ curve, cables/cab/pickups/body wood/ohms/etc. Totally understandable...but right off the bat, this doesn't have what I hear as a flat EQ...it's very heavy on the high mid end. Far more than any of my other amps: Bogner Shiva, Egnater Armageddon, EVH 5150 III

I'm just looking for similar experiences in an out of the box or gigging situation with this amp, prior to returning it.

Thanks guys.

Actually in your first post, you said you used it with several pedals in front and a delay in the loop. That's not the same as what I mentioned.

I suggested you used the amp with nothing else, to see if you can use your many years of dialing in awesome tones, to see if you can get in the ballpark. Then start adding in your other gear, using logic and deduction to figure out the rest.

I have no problem with "modern gear," I own a Kemper and have previously owned a Pod and Axe. It's just a fact, 4cm is going to compromise your tone, whether you want to admit it or not. 4CM offers a convenient solution, as the expense of some tone loss, that's life.

Not sure what you're looking for, as you seem to have your answers already. Using the search function will show that nobody else has had the same experience, e.g. honky mid.

There are lots of real pro touring musicians, Tremonti, ZM, Emil, etc., who are using this amp to play brutal humbucker rawk without any mid honk problems. Weird.

 

[László]

I kinda feel I was too hard on the OP.

I think if the amp isn't your thing, definitely return it. No point in being unhappy!

 

[bvaladez74]

Feel better Blackbird?

 

[vchizzle]

I actually can't stand anything that is inherently bright or high mid driven. I don't like the majority of Marshall amps because of this. I guess I'm just not hearing what you're hearing. I find this amp to be voiced with a lot of low mid and bass emphasis. You're the first person I've heard describe it as "honky". I've heard some complain it's too dark or muddy, etc...but not heard honky. I guess we all hear things differently. Sounds to me like you should just return it since it's clearly not your cup of tea.

 

[alantig]

I actually can't stand anything that is inherently bright or high mid driven. I don't like the majority of Marshall amps because of this. I guess I'm just not hearing what you're hearing. I find this amp to be voiced with a lot of low mid and bass emphasis. You're the first person I've heard describe it as "honky". I've heard some complain it's too dark or muddy, etc...but not heard honky. I guess we all hear things differently. Sounds to me like you should just return it since it's clearly not your cup of tea.

I believe the politically correct term you're looking for is crackery. :rofl:

I don't hear a mid prominence either. In fact, I've found it to be a bit more even than my two-channel C at times - the gain channel on that amps strikes me as dark sometimes, and the Archon doesn't.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I believe the politically correct term you're looking for is crackery. :rofl:

Snowflakery is what we say here in Chi-raq.

 

[CarlGuitarist]

I'm sorry for reviving this 7 year old thread, but I'm having the exact same issues as the OP with my 25w combo. The only thing I've changed is the power tubes (from 5881 to 6l6, biased at 30mA). The mid range on the lead channel is really pronounced and can only be fixed using an eq in the loop. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Upper mids? NO!

 

[CarlGuitarist]

Upper mids? NO!

It’s the strangest amp experience ever! I swear it wasn’t like this before. The bright switch on the lead channel makes a pretty dramatic difference no?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

It’s the strangest amp experience ever! I swear it wasn’t like this before. The bright switch on the lead channel makes a pretty dramatic difference no?

When I want that old late 70s and 80s Marshall upper mids crunch, I have to really dial OUT the mids knob and bottom, turn up the treble and presence, and usually hit it with a boost that adds top end, like the Timmy can. Without serious shaping, it's FAT and heavy on bottom end, not upper mids. So yeah, it is wierd... I wish mine had MORE upper mids cut many times. And my bright switch is audible but absolutely NOT dramatic. It is a small, but notable difference. And NEEDED, with humbuckers (just about all I play) so it's on ALL the time.

 

[CarlGuitarist]

When I want that old late 70s and 80s Marshall upper mids crunch, I have to really dial OUT the mids knob and bottom, turn up the treble and presence, and usually hit it with a boost that adds top end, like the Timmy can. Without serious shaping, it's FAT and heavy on bottom end, not upper mids. So yeah, it is wierd... I wish mine had MORE upper mids cut many times. And my bright switch is audible but absolutely NOT dramatic. It is a small, but notable difference. And NEEDED, with humbuckers (just about all I play) so it's on ALL the time.

Thanks man, I think maybe my mind is playing tricks on me after all because what you’re saying seems very similar to my experience! It’s probably just a matter of me getting to know the lead channel better. It truly is an awesome amp, would keep it for the cleans alone.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Thanks man, I think maybe my mind is playing tricks on me after all because what you’re saying seems very similar to my experience! It’s probably just a matter of me getting to know the lead channel better. It truly is an awesome amp, would keep it for the cleans alone.

Without looking back, have you tried other speakers? I've used.... 3 different versions of V30s (Mesa in a 2x12 Vertical Recto cab, PRS in a 2x12 closed back pine cab), both C90 and Eminence EM12 in Mesa Thiele cab, V30 Warehouse ET65 in Dr. Z Zbest cab, and Emi Governor, Private Jack and Red Fang... and a couple others.

 

[CarlGuitarist]

Without looking back, have you tried other speakers? I've used.... 3 different versions of V30s (Mesa in a 2x12 Vertical Recto cab, PRS in a 2x12 closed back pine cab), both C90 and Eminence EM12 in Mesa Thiele cab, V30 Warehouse ET65 in Dr. Z Zbest cab, and Emi Governor, Private Jack and Red Fang... and a couple others.

Cool! Mine is a combo and currently running a V-Type in there. Been thinking about trying a V30 in there. In fact I think we discussed different speakers over on the gear page back when I first got the amp haha!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Cool! Mine is a combo and currently running a V-Type in there. Been thinking about trying a V30 in there. In fact I think we discussed different speakers over on the gear page back when I first got the amp haha!

Oh yeah! If you're struggling with an upper mids prominence, a V30 might be the WORST speaker to try. The Archon works great with them, but I'll tell you what kills... my Zbest. In particular, the Warehouse ET65. I have an ET90 that I'm going to put in that cab with the ET65 (remove the V30) and I'm expecting greatness because that speaker sounds really good as well.