Archon 25 vs 50 Combo

[Buck]

Need some advice from Archon owners please! So I've got a pre-order in for the new MT15...but after much coaxing from forum members, have decided to also trade a seldom used Blackstar for either an Archon 25 or 50 watt combo. Who says you can't own an Archon and an MT15!

There is a used 25 watt and 50 watt both fairly close for great prices...as a matter of fact, the 50 watt is only about $50 more, both 2017 manufacture dates. 50 watt has the 6L6 tubes. Looking for help on which one to get for home studio/bedroom playing. I would like to be able to drive the tubes a bit more, which is doable with the 25 watt...but always liked 6L6 tube sounds. Also, curious if the 25 watt clean channel will break up at higher volumes. To my ears, they both sound fanstastic...just mean! My concern with the 50 watt is it may be a bit too much...probably wouldn't be able to get the volume up enough to really drive the tubes into the sweet spot very much.

Anybody want to chime in with some advice? Thx in advance!

 

[Bran_Flakes]

I think both the 50W head and combo have a switch to bump it down to 25W, so if that's all you were concerned about, that might ease your mind a bit?

Edit: Also as Dream said, the 50W does sound fantastic at lower volumes. I had a buddy come down last night that I hadn't seen in a while and he commented on how great the Archon sounded at low volume (we were playing at about 11 p.m.). The master volume works very well on the amp compared to others.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Who says you can't own an Archon and an MT15!

It's this kind of thinking that made America great!

Now, as to your question, buy the purple one! Or, play both. I love the Archon but didn't care for the speaker in the 25 watt version I played and still kick myself in the rear to this day for not buying it anyway. Once I bought the 50 head and played it with other and broken in speakers, I fell in love immediately. But I can't accurately tell you the tonal differences of 50 vs.25. I can tell you they won't be much different in "volume" levels though, and that the 50 sounds great at low volumes. Great master volume! So I would not make the decision based on "volume" levels.

 

[Mark Barton]

As others have said the master volume works really well so I would go with the head as it gives you more options. I use a 100 at home and it’s really amazing sounding at low volume - although I did just get a Universal Auduio OX for it ;-). Oh yes, mine is purple and purple always sounds the best!

 

[Buck]

Thx to both of you...guess I should clarify...I'm deciding between the two combos (my 100 watt heads are set for now)...I know that watt attenuators are on both, but in my experience, the tone does change slightly when you hit the switch. I'm looking to drive full on to the depths of both channels without a window breaking and/or call from the neighbors! I have my "gig rig" already, this is just for some light recording and home use. Just curious as to ability to get the 50w combo sounding good at lower volumes, and also the headroom on the 25w version for the clean channel. I want the clean to stay clean, even at high volumes...wondering how much more headroom the 50w combo has. I wish the place that has both was a bit closer...as it is, I think I may have upset the balance in the store with all the METAL music blasting from the Archon!!!

 

[Bran_Flakes]

Gotcha. From my experience with the 50W, I haven't noticed any major differences between cranking it at home on 50W or having it reared back on 25W while mic'ing it at my church. It sounds just as gnarly as it does when it's let loose. I have no problems with sustain or getting the sounds that I want when it's set to 25 or 50 (I play Alter Bridge/Tremonti with the same sounds as I do Crowder and Hillsong Y&F). Stays tight and punchy.

As far as heardoom, I can't answer that accurately as I haven't tested it myself. I've pushed it to about 60% on 50w clean, and there was no more break-up than if it had been on 10%. Can't recall what I have the channel volume was set to at the moment.

Is there a return policy or trade period? Could always grab one and if it doesn't work, just swap 'em out.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Well again, there is not going to be much difference in the clean headroom, and the master is great on the Archons. The 25 watt combo I tried was WAY loud for 25 watts and 1x12. Remember, it's not a small glass 25 watts. And the Archons are made to stay clean way up on the clean channel, so I wouldn't assume there would be much difference in ultimate volume level of either version. And if you want to tame the volume level even more, just change the speaker. I'd do that anyway...

 

[alantig]

+1 on the master volume - it really works great on this amp (although I only have the 100w head to go by).

 

[Buck]

Y'all on this forum are really helpful...thx so much. Whichever I get, will probably replace the speaker right away as I usually do...kinda partial to the WGS-ET90 at the moment, providing it sounds good with the open back cab on the lower end. I'm gonna play them both again in a couple days...gonna push both further and see how it sounds...preferably moved to a smaller room so the acoustics will be more similar. At the end of the day, I'm not sure there is a "better" of the two...just have to go with the good old ears!

So little time and so many guitar/amp combinations...how much better can life get

 

[bodia]

I had a 25w combo, and loved it. Ended up selling it because I had a MkV, and thought having them both was overkill. Then ended up missing it. Sold my Mesa MkV to DTR and replaced it with an Archon 50w head. Love it more than I did the 25w. Don't miss the MkV either. And, as stated, the 50w sounds great at low volumes. If they're both priced that close, I'd go 50w cuz bigger is better!

Although, you mentioned 6L6. Since you're getting those in the MT-15, maybe the 25w would be cool,for a little different flavor?

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Go big.

 

[László]

Go big.

Always get the big engine.

 

[Buck]

Sounds like it's pretty much unanimous...go big or go home! If the 50 watt sounds great at lower volumes as well, prolly go with that one. Gonna play them both again Saturday at length and at higher volume...may the best Archon win

 

[Buck]

Soooooooooooo....I ended up picking up the 25w Archon combo over the weekend! While it was used, the mfg date was 12/17...why would somebody trade in so fast?!?! ...oh well, his or her loss and my gain Got a really smoking deal on it which helped make the wattage decision.

Initial thoughts are...I'm an idiot for not getting one sooner...but, besides that...I absolutely love the tone. I do play mainly metal, rock and blues...and have played and owned a good portion of the so called high-gain amps. Hands down, the Archon blows them all away on the clean channel by a mile...and the lead channel really is saturated, just dripping beyond belief...in a good way! To me it sounds like an EVH 5150, a Marshall and a Bogner Uber had a 3-way baby and the Archon got the best genes from all of them.

My only issue (you knew it was coming)...is the G12 speaker variant...to my ear, sounds "thin" for lack of a better term. Low end is OK, a bit mushy with palm muting...and high registers are razor like, but more in a chimey doorbell kind of way. Not a fan of the speaker at all...but, I could tell the sound I wasn't liking was mainly the speaker and that can be remedied.

So...I'm swapping for a V30 to start and WGS ET90, have both of those available in my studio so why not. Any other suggestions?

 

[bodia]

Soooooooooooo....I ended up picking up the 25w Archon combo over the weekend! While it was used, the mfg date was 12/17...why would somebody trade in so fast?!?! ...oh well, his or her loss and my gain Got a really smoking deal on it which helped make the wattage decision.

Initial thoughts are...I'm an idiot for not getting one sooner...but, besides that...I absolutely love the tone. I do play mainly metal, rock and blues...and have played and owned a good portion of the so called high-gain amps. Hands down, the Archon blows them all away on the clean channel by a mile...and the lead channel really is saturated, just dripping beyond belief...in a good way! To me it sounds like an EVH 5150, a Marshall and a Bogner Uber had a 3-way baby and the Archon got the best genes from all of them.

My only issue (you knew it was coming)...is the G12 speaker variant...to my ear, sounds "thin" for lack of a better term. Low end is OK, a bit mushy with palm muting...and high registers are razor like, but more in a chimey doorbell kind of way. Not a fan of the speaker at all...but, I could tell the sound I wasn't liking was mainly the speaker and that can be remedied.

So...I'm swapping for a V30 to start and WGS ET90, have both of those available in my studio so why not. Any other suggestions?

Sweet! Another convert! Welcome to Club Arhon! \m/

 

[Boogie]

Soooooooooooo....I ended up picking up the 25w Archon combo over the weekend!...So...I'm swapping for a V30 to start and WGS ET90, have both of those available in my studio so why not. Any other suggestions?

I’ve learned to leave the combo speaker be: rarely is it just the speaker. Buy a new cab with the speakers you want and start a fort! Cabs are the foundation of any good amp collection so you might as well start there. It’s easier/cheaper to unplug a speaker and plug into another cab than to end up blaming the amp and flipping it.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Congrats on the Archon. The "regulars" are probably tired of hearing this, but the first Archon I got to try was the 25 watt combo. Purple/tan, no less. I was so excited to play it I was ready to take trade in value for another amp just to get him to hold it. But I played it and it didn't blow me away. I thought it sounded really good, but not "great" like I expected. Killer price. Awesome looking. I walked away.

When I got my 50w Archon head, I fell in love it it immediately. And over time, I just love it more and more. But from day 1, it's been played through nothing but broken in speakers and cabs that I'm familiar with and love. I almost immediately blamed the combo speaker. There's always a little more to it than that, as palm muted chugging will not be the same on a semi open back combo as a closed cab. But I still think that with a V30 (especially the Mesa version) I would have walked out with that amp and kept it forever. Probably 2 or 3 Scumbacks that I would like as well or even better. Just didn't jibe with the stock speaker.

So, I agree with Boogie to try it with other cabs first. Find one which speaker you love with it, then replace the one in the amp. Scumback J or M would be my first two choices depending on which meets your tonal goals more closely. Creambacks, Warehouse and Emi have models that would be great as well.

It took me a while to figure this out. But I now thing speakers are almost half the battle. Find a great speaker/cab you love the sound of, and most amps you try will sound better to you. Find one you don't like, and the best amps ever won't sound great to you. Finding the right amp (which you now have) and the right speaker, and the skies open up, angels sing, Jimi Hendrix holograph starts jamming in your music room....

 

[László]

That combo probably makes for a great grab n’ go amp, but if you’re after big high gain tones, seems to me you’d want to pair it with a closed back 212 or 412 to get the tones you’re most likely after.

Gotta remember, the tones that get recorded on high gain records are mostly done with 412 cabs, not small combos. I think you could install speakers in that combo for eons, and not get where you want to go.

I agree with Boogie. Leave the speaker in there, and pair it up with a bigger cab with different speakers. You want a big, full sound? This is how it’s done (Michael Wagener’s guitar cabinet recording room):

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Playing it with other speaker/cabs is not only always an option, it is advised. But if it's going to be a "grab and go" or if it's EVER going to be used by itself, I'd be changing the speaker in the combo to one I loved. I'd still use it with external cabs, but in the case where you're taking it to a buddies or a jam or gig where you can't haul more, I'd think you'd want your favorite speaker choice in the combo. Even if I'm mixing and matching speakers, I'd want my #1 in the combo. But I'm weird like that. I have identified this, come to terms with it, and am now admitting it openly.

 

[László]

But I'm weird like that. I have identified this, come to terms with it, and am now admitting it openly.

The first step is always the hardest.