Archon 25 Combo Test Drive #2

[elvis]

Had a second shot at the Archon 25 combo. This time I A/B'd it with the internal speaker (G12T-75, which I am not a fan of) and a horizontal recto 2x12 with V30.

The purpose was to see how much of the combo tone is from the smaller power stage vs. the cabinet.

I found that set up well, it sounds pretty good as a combo, but definitely boxy and lacking in tightness and punch.

Through the 2x12 it sounded a LOT better. But still a bit soft.

Then I checked it more carefully and it was in half-power mode. So I went to 25W. BIG difference. Much tighter with the added headroom. Night and day.

Through the combo cab in 25W mode, still decent, not great. I ran at both reasonably loud and fairly quiet. When quieter, the amp loses some aggression.

Through the 2x12 it was very tight and aggressive. Not quite the low punch of my 100, but what would you expect?

Overall, I would own this amp. BUT I would put a V30 in it and pair it with a closed-back 1x12 with V30. I really wish I could close the back of the combo on its own, but it may just be too small for that to sound OK.

The stock speaker does give extended lows, but it also sounds brittle and the scooped mid loses some of the aggressiveness.

 

[vchizzle]

Nice info, thanks! I too can't stand the 75, I was shocked to see that speaker in there. I'd be curious what it'd sound like with a V30. The small, open back combo doesn't do the amp any favors for what it's promoted as. I felt much the same as you about the overall sound. Sounded good, but not the love affair I have with my Archon 100 good.

Oddly, I tolerate the 75's mixed with V30's in my Bogner cab.

 

[László]

Much as one would expect, actually. Did you try one with EL34s or 6L6s?

 

[elvis]

As I understand it, the 25 uses 5881.

 

[László]

As I understand it, the 25 uses 5881.

Oops, I was thinking the 50 Watt version. Sorry!

 

[JustRob]

Very helpful info!

I was considering a project of building a box and turning one into a head and closing the cabinet. Your experiment gives me an idea of what I'll get.

 

[13bats]

I actually quite liked the 25 , Funny enough as soon as i put it through a 412 EVH cab it sounded great not boxy at all .While i will agree it lacks a little of the low growl and punch in reality a lot of that live and in the studio gets with lost with bass or cut with a filter to avoid the woof . the other thing that makes big difference over the other 25 waters is the bigger glass of the 5881.
That tube imparts a bit more upper mid bite and brightness almost like the 100 w bright switch on and mids up a bit .it cuts great .
Overall the 50 watt seemed darker and a looser to me . It would appear that the 25 PRS was very careful to make the low end stay tight ig giving up a bit of the punch.
PRS please get the Archon in a 25-30 watt head ASAP lol

 

[elvis]

Interesting comment about the 50. I am thinking about whether I would get a 25 combo or a 50 combo. Did you try the 6L6 or the EL34 version?

For a 25W head, I'd like to see something like a PDI-09 built in as well.

 

[andross182]

I would love to play both and compare, unfortunately the dealers here will never stock another PRS amp. Of course being that I love it with a Mesa V30, I would have to buy a Mesa V30 for the cab!

 

[elvis]

Why won't the dealers stock PRS amps?

 

[vchizzle]

Why won't the dealers stock PRS amps?

Everything's driven by what they feel they can sell to some extent. Bigger dealers that stock a large amount of the line or dealers that maybe stock PRS as a primary brand will, but at least around here, those are few and far between.

 

[elvis]

I get that. My local PRS dealers also don't stock much by way of amps. So far I have seen one used Archon 100 and one new heavily-demo'd Archon 25. Not much, and we have 3 or 4 major PRS dealers in the Bay Area.

 

[13bats]

Interesting comment about the 50. I am thinking about whether I would get a 25 combo or a 50 combo. Did you try the 6L6 or the EL34 version?

For a 25W head, I'd like to see something like a PDI-09 built in as well.

it was the 6l6 of the 50 watt head, it was ok ,i think I just liked the 5881 a bit better a little brighter more Soldanoish than perhaps the Darker sounding 50 ,but that not surprising the JJ6l6 tend to be big bass a lil mid scooped and refined in the highs a bit in my experience

I also agree with the comments on the t75 speaker , It was scooped and not as articulate as the EVH cab or Mesa V30 loaded.

for guys asking about tube rolling I strongly recommend Tung Sol in V1 ,and Sovtek LPS in the PI, I find JJ preamp tubes again a bit darker, smoother unless thats what you are going for

 

[László]

It absolutely blows my mind that PRS' amps are somehow hard for dealers to sell, because they're such amazing amps. Even at their price points, they're phenomenal in comparison with the competition.

OK, I'm a fanboy and a True Believer. But there's a reason for that: I have owned an awful lot of high end amps, and plenty of the classics, going back 50 years. I know great amps when I play them. And I know these are amps that stack up well against anything out there.

So I simply don't get it.

If dealers won't stock 'em, PRS should sell them direct like Mesa does through their Hollywood store. Yes, I know this isn't PRS' policy, they sell through dealers. But dealers can't sell what they don't have, and "we can order that for you" doesn't exactly help the buyer decide whether to buy an amp.

Two things Mesa does (and maybe this is a resource-intensive thing) might get more PRS amps out there.

First, most, if not all, Mesa models are available as heads. So there's a case for making the 25 Watt Archon available as a head.

Second, Mesa will allow customization of the exterior of the amp for an up-charge; in fact, they promote it. I know that PRS once offered a certain amount of customization, but I don't know if this is still the case. I don't know if I'd have bothered with the Mesa Lone Star if I hadn't seen one trimmed out in leather like mine. It made the amp suddenly desirable (also, my son was using one, and for obvious reasons that influenced me quite a lot).

While I like the Lone Star for certain sounds, when I switch the PRS amps on, the differences in quality of tone are immediately obvious. The PRS amps sound so much better - to me.

Shoulda-woulda-coulda is a dumb thing, but I'd have been MUCH smarter to get a PRS 2 Channel 50, have that 6L6 sound, and the PRS tone for less than I wound up spending on the Mesa. Ah well.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Yeah, I've been wanting to demo a 50 watt Archon for a year and haven't seen one. Now, I don't go to the one PRS dealer much because it's 50 miles away and just an area we don't go to much. (Although I bought my Custom 24 there and stop in every time we do go there). He usually has a couple PRS amps. He has probably had several in the last year, but never when I was there. I actually went in one day right before he closed and he had an HX/DA and I wanted to play it but didn't want to keep him there late. But my GC is a Premium dealer or whatever, and they have a bunch of PRS guitars, but quit carrying the amps a couple years ago.

 

[CoreyT]

I wish my PRS dealer who is just 2.5 to 3 miles from work stocked some.
Lots of PRS guitars, but no amps.
He does have a ton of Mesa amps though.

 

[László]

I wish my PRS dealer who is just 2.5 to 3 miles from work stocked some.
Lots of PRS guitars, but no amps.
He does have a ton of Mesa amps though.

Sure! Because everyone knows Mesa, they've been around for what, 40-odd years now, if not longer, and they're an easy sell.

Dealers are always going to take the path of least resistance when it comes to stocking high-ticket items like amplifiers can be.

I've got nothing against Mesa; hell, I own a Mesa, and have had quite a number of them. My son tours with one, and always has played them.

But - I gotta say it - when I set up my very fine Mesa side by side with my PRS amps (as I have them in my current setup), and I switch between them (something I am able do with a footswitch, no re-cabling necessary), there really is no comparison. The PRS amps have greater depth, responsiveness to the guitar, and three-dimensionality - and are just beautiful to play through. Not that the Mesa is a slouch, it surely isn't, it's a very good amp. But the PRS amps are just that much more appealing.

I'd give the usual YMMV disclaimer, but...I don't really think peoples' mileage will vary on this one, if they heard them side by side.

 

[elvis]

I think the number one question is going to be reliability. Mesa has a long history of selling tanks that run for decades and are still relatively easy to repair. I am curious how the PRS amps will do over time. I always brought a spare amp when gigging Mesas, but never actually expected an amp to fail, and they never did. I did have a couple tubes fail at rehearsals, so the spare amp still comes along. I hope I get the same result with PRS.
As for competition, I don's think Mesa will come out with anything that really competes with the majority of PRS models. They are just not in the modified Marshall space. Even their "Marshall-esque" models don't sound particularly like Marshall, and are largely discontinued. The one PRS amp that I think really goes head-to-head is the Archon. And even then, it's NOT a recto or Mark. I think PRS managed to find an open area in the market and exploited it beautifully with that one. As for the others, I have no idea what the competition is from other manufacturers.
With all that, I still don't get why the retailers don't have ANY PRS amps on the floor. They carry $4k guitars that never seem to sell. What's a $2k amp relatively speaking? Maybe the retailer markup is just too little. The amps are awfully big bang for the buck...