Archon 100. Loudest without attenuator.

[Deedsoftommy]

So I'm trying to break in my EVH 4X12 Stealth cab. I normally practice at 1/4 volume on the 50 watt setting. OR 100 watt I feel a riff or idea brewing to get more bass repsonse. I decided to turn up half way on 50 watts and GREAT SCOTTS MARTY!!! My house was shaking! So I kicked it up to 100 watts. Then faced my cab down where speakers are pointing downward into the carpet and turned it up to 3/4's full. I couldnt really tell how it sounded due to the bass resonance of the cab.


With that being said. Any suggestions on an attenuator???? Brand. Pro & Cons.

Some might say I should of bought the 25 or 50 watt Archon. But the 100 just sounds fuller. Plus it really has a good bedroom volume for being a 100 watter.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Interesting thread title....

The Power Station seems to be the most universally loved attenuator at The Gear Page. Plus, it's not JUST an attenuater. It's a re-amp device that has an effects loop power power amp.

I would say "If the master is good, why do you still want one." But many claim that no matter how good the master is, the amp sounds better when turned up to push it a bit, then the volume reigned in with the Power Station.

 

[Deedsoftommy]

Interesting thread title....

The Power Station seems to be the most universally loved attenuator at The Gear Page. Plus, it's not JUST an attenuater. It's a re-amp device that has an effects loop power power amp.

I would say "If the master is good, why do you still want one." But many claim that no matter how good the master is, the amp sounds better when turned up to push it a bit, then the volume reigned in with the Power Station.

The Master volume is AMAZING no doubt about that. I have never tried an attenuator so it would be more for "****'s n' giggles".

Thanks for the reply! Lemme take a look at The Power Station.

 

[CoreyT]

I have the Fryette Power Station, great piece of gear.

 

[Boogie]

Cooking the tubes is only one reason for cranking the master. The big tonal advantage is what it does to the speakers at that output. Cone excursion and the resulting distortion is where it's at for me. An attenuator kills that, IMO. I've had a Marshall Power Brake for decades and rarely use it.

 

[CatStrangler]

The Fryette power station is something I've been researching along with the Two Notes Torpedo reloaded. I have never owned an attenuator or re-amper, but my understanding is that reamping can produce somewhat different an more desirable results than attenuation. Anyone care to chime in?

 

[Deedsoftommy]

Inter

Cooking the tubes is only one reason for cranking the master. The big tonal advantage is what it does to the speakers at that output. Cone excursion and the resulting distortion is where it's at for me. An attenuator kills that, IMO. I've had a Marshall Power Brake for decades and rarely use it.

Interesting. That's a good way of looking at it. Thanks!

 

[andross182]

Pete Thorn had an epic review of the two notes torpedo on YouTube. Seems like a solid contender.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

So I'm trying to break in my EVH 4X12 Stealth cab. I normally practice at 1/4 volume on the 50 watt setting. OR 100 watt I feel a riff or idea brewing to get more bass repsonse. I decided to turn up half way on 50 watts and GREAT SCOTTS MARTY!!! My house was shaking! So I kicked it up to 100 watts. Then faced my cab down where speakers are pointing downward into the carpet and turned it up to 3/4's full. I couldnt really tell how it sounded due to the bass resonance of the cab.


With that being said. Any suggestions on an attenuator???? Brand. Pro & Cons.

Some might say I should of bought the 25 or 50 watt Archon. But the 100 just sounds fuller. Plus it really has a good bedroom volume for being a 100 watter.

So neat trick, if you obtain (including borrowing a friend's, doesn't even have to be an EVH, just a 4x12, same impedance, non-slant-top) a second one: plug them both in, in parallel (not out of phase -- same phase) -- and face them towards each other. Since they're facing each other, they're already out of phase, so all you get is the residual volume due to the impossibility of the power cancelling itself out. It's surprisingly quieter.

 

[Herr Squid]

So neat trick, if you obtain (including borrowing a friend's, doesn't even have to be an EVH, just a 4x12, same impedance, non-slant-top) a second one: plug them both in, in parallel (not out of phase -- same phase) -- and face them towards each other. Since they're facing each other, they're already out of phase, so all you get is the residual volume due to the impossibility of the power cancelling itself out. It's surprisingly quieter.

I want to not believe you...

I also want to try it! I have a pair of identical 1x12 cabs. Hmm...

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Do it! I love skeptics. What's it cost you? A little bit of time...Make sure you compensate for the impedance of dual cabs.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

how far apart?

 

[Dusty Chalk]

how far apart?

Face to face, as close as possible.

 

[elvis]

So neat trick, if you obtain (including borrowing a friend's, doesn't even have to be an EVH, just a 4x12, same impedance, non-slant-top) a second one: plug them both in, in parallel (not out of phase -- same phase) -- and face them towards each other. Since they're facing each other, they're already out of phase, so all you get is the residual volume due to the impossibility of the power cancelling itself out. It's surprisingly quieter.

This would act like bridging an amp. When both cabs push air, they would push them into each other and it would squeeze together and the pressure would push it out the sides. When both pull, they would pull air from the sides. You would want them out of phase so that one pushes while the other pulls, giving net zero air flow.

 

[elvis]

I've used power attenuators, and have a Rock Crusher. I prefer turning the master down on the Archon. It sounds as good or better and is more convenient.

On a 100W power amp, the speakers are a bigger piece of the tone than the amp. At 50W, Ch1 gets a bit more crunchy due to loss of headroom, but Ch2 is fairly constant.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

This would act like bridging an amp. When both cabs push air, they would push them into each other and it would squeeze together and the pressure would push it out the sides. When both pull, they would pull air from the sides. You would want them out of phase so that one pushes while the other pulls, giving net zero air flow.

Yeah, I thought that, too, but then I tried it. It was quieter my way.

If you have the capability, try it both ways (out of phase requires a special cable on guitar amps and cabinets -- normal speakers, you can just switch the leads). My theory is that they reinforce each other enough to bleed out the back, acting like one big speaker with two cones in parallel.

That said, if the theory that explains it implies that the speakers are working against each other and are therefore making smaller excursions, then it's the same as breaking them in at a smaller volume, except with a greater load on the amp, so...who knows?

 

[elvis]

That said, if the theory that explains it implies that the speakers are working against each other and are therefore making smaller excursions, then it's the same as breaking them in at a smaller volume, except with a greater load on the amp, so...who knows?

Interesting. Possible, I suppose.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I know enough theory about this to be dangerous and probably not enough to be correct. That's why I ask you how far apart. In theory, it may seem you would want them out of phase as some have suggested, but these speakers in this example are opposing each other, and not in the same cab or pointing the same direction. So, you wouldn't get the "normal" effect of running two speakers out of phase with each other in a single cab, or separate cabs but both pointed towards the listener.

As to why DC's in phase way would be quieter of the two, I'd have to think more on that, but I'd bet it actually has to do with the same principle... phase cancellation. Both are "pushing" and "pulling" at the same time, but there is space between the drivers and they are pointed at each other and not the listener.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I know enough theory about this to be dangerous and probably not enough to be correct. That's why I ask you how far apart. In theory, it may seem you would want them out of phase as some have suggested, but these speakers in this example are opposing each other, and not in the same cab or pointing the same direction. So, you wouldn't get the "normal" effect of running two speakers out of phase with each other in a single cab, or separate cabs but both pointed towards the listener.

As to why DC's in phase way would be quieter of the two, I'd have to think more on that, but I'd bet it actually has to do with the same principle... phase cancellation. Both are "pushing" and "pulling" at the same time, but there is space between the drivers and they are pointed at each other and not the listener.

Right, but if it was just that, then distance wouldn't matter. One should also point out that "sound" is "localized variances in pressure at AC frequencies (20Hz-20kHz)", and two drivers pushing at the same time should still create a localized high pressure point, and then pulling simultaneously should still create a localized low pressure point at the same frequency (with some lag due to the speed of variances in pressure in air, but no frequency shift), I.E. sound, so I don't know why it works. I think the thing to do would be to measure the back EMF.

 

[Boogie]

Some automotive sound deadening/cancellation technology has been employed for years, which works on the principles discussed above. Take a look at Toyota/Lexus' options which used specific speakers to respond at opposing frequencies to noise in the cabin. The results are impressive.