Anyone have a 408?

[11top]

Was this a matter of the person wanted a guitar, you had one that happened to be a 408, but they didn't like the pickups so they passed? Did they go buy another model in a similar color/top with different pickups?( I know you have a massive PS collection...that's a completely different argument) All I'm saying is...why is anyone considering buying a guitar if they don't like the way it sounds, when PRS makes many other models available in the same colors, tops, and various pickup options?

Most of the guitars I've sold have been through Reverb, Ebay (shudder), GearPage, etc., so most buyers don't have a chance to play first. I've had people pass on a sale because they couldn't change the pups.

And, the points I'm making about tone are 1) there are lots of buyers who buy without hearing the guitar first. I assure you there were lots of Silver Sky sales where buyers never had one in their hands first. Is that wise? I dunno. Ask the buyer. Maybe they thought they'd sound just like John Mayer.
2) How a guitar sounds can depend upon outside variables (like room, like amp, like band mix). And again, our tastes can change.

but HEY.................................I LIKE 408s!

I have some.

 

[László]

As I stated above, I like 408s. However, some of us do tend to trade occasionally in the aftermarket. Potential buyers are limited because some might really want the guitar, but want different pickups. To say “the whole point” of buying a 408 is for the pickups is not a universally true statement. It may be your whole point, but it might not be for everyone. It’s no secret that I sometimes buy for figured wood (especially if extraordinary). Maybe “guitar purists” call that blasphemy, but it’s still my choice. And others may have their own reasons.

The assertion that you need to play it first or take the risk is problematic. Play it first where? In the vendor’s showroom? With the vendor’s Amp? At home in your bedroom? With your full band? What about with a newly introduced model? How many played the silver sky before they tried one? How many times have we played through our rigs and thought we had the holy grail tone until we duplicated it the next day and it didn’t sound as good? And sometimes our tastes simply change.

If you’re buying 100% for the figured wood, it’ll still be figured wood, regardless of whether you have 408s in it or something else. The pickups then logically become a non-factor. They’re not relevant to the figured wood.

If the pickups are, in fact, a factor, you’re not buying for the figured wood alone. So why wouldn’t you want to play the guitar before buying it, if you were concerned about the pickups?

As to where to play it, and how to make that determination, I’d do that as I would with any other guitar I was interested in. There are times I want to at least hear the guitar/play the model, and times I assume the risk of not doing so.

Assumption of the risk is not a bad thing. We assume risks daily in our lives. Some are acceptable, some aren’t. Each one of us has a different idea about that.

 

[László]

How did you test drive your 408? Was it at home? At the store? With a band? I've played a guitar at home through my amp and thought I had the greatest tone. Then, I took it to band practice and thought "WTF"?

Also, I've sold a bought and sold a LOT of guitars. I've sold a 408 where I've had the response, "I'd buy it if it had different pups." And THAT was what I stated was the downside in my OP.

Yes, and having someone pass because of pickups is a risk you took if you bought a 408, and hardly a surprise.

Personally, I haven’t ever had the experience of buying a guitar whose tone I liked, then using it for the purpose I bought it, and then saying, “WTF?” I have a good idea of what works in the context of my music. That may be unusual, or not, but in my case it’s true. Honestly, I don’t think it’s unusual, based on my experience with other musicians.

I’ll add that there are lots of tone-shaping options in effects, amplifiers, and even strings that one can use with any guitar, if additional tonal changes are needed.

As to “I’d buy it if it had different pickups,” how’s that any different from, “I’d buy it if it was a different color,” or “I’d buy it if it had a different shaped headstock,” or any one of a zillion other ways of saying, “I’ll pass?” If you have a burl top SC in an unusual color, you’re taking the same risk (and, yes, I know you have one).

I can only state my own opinion, and the benefit of my experience, in any case. That’s all any of us can do.

 

[11top]

If you’re buying for the figured wood, it’ll still be figured wood, regardless of whether you have 408s in it or something else. The pickups then logically become a non-factor. If it’s a factor, you’re not buying for the figured wood alone. In which case, wouldn’t you want to play the guitar before buying it?

As to where to play it, and how to make that determination, I’d do that as I would with any other guitar I was interested in.

This entire conversation is a result of my contention that a downside of 408s is that you can't exchange the pups for "standard" shapes as stated in my OP. Maybe I should have been clear from the outset that from my perspective that stated negative is in regards to resell. I can't tell you why other buyers are buying, but I can tell you I've had some difficulty in selling because those pups were in the guitar. So, what's a non-factor to me not be true of the next owner.

It was your contention that the "whole point" of the 408 guitar was the 408s. I'm not comfortable making that assumption for everyone else.

Your second paragraph didn't really tell me anything.

 

[László]

This entire conversation is a result of my contention that a downside of 408s is that you can't exchange the pups for "standard" shapes as stated in my OP. Maybe I should have been clear from the outset that from my perspective that stated negative is in regards to resell. I can't tell you why other buyers are buying, but I can tell you I've had some difficulty in selling because those pups were in the guitar. So, what's a non-factor to me not be true of the next owner.

It was your contention that the "whole point" of the 408 guitar was the 408s. I'm not comfortable making that assumption for everyone else.

Your second paragraph didn't really tell me anything.

OK, see if you follow this logical progression:

What is the distinguishing feature of the 408 that makes it different from other PRS models whose scale length and body shape/thickness it shares?

Answer: the pickups and electronic switches.

Without the 408 pickups and switches, Would the guitar be a 408?

Answer: No.

Do all 408s have 408 pickups and switching, without exception?

Answer: Yes, 408s all have 408 pickups and switching, without exception.

If you had a guitar without 408 pickups in it, even if it was very similar to a 408, would it be a 408?

Answer: No, it would not be a 408.

It follows then that the 408 model was created to have the 408 pickups/switching as its distinguishing feature, correct?

Answer: Yes. The purpose was to offer a model with 408 pickups and switching.

In the English language, is “the point” of something “the reason for doing it” or put another way, “the purpose for doing it?”

Answer: Yes.

Therefore, the 408 pickups and electronics are the point of the model.

You’re confusing your purpose in buying the guitar from the point of its existence as a separate model. However your purpose, and the guitar’s point, are two different things.

 

[11top]

Yes, and having someone pass because of pickups is a risk you took if you bought a 408, and hardly a surprise.

My OP had absolutely nothing to do with my risk tolerance. I have NEVER bought a guitar for the sole reason of reselling it. The great majority of my guitars are still in my sweaty little hands. However, I do consider the possibility that I might sell one day. All I'm saying is that there are those that won't buy a 408 because the pickups can't be switched, so in my mind, that makes it a downside. How significant? I'll leave that up to each to decide on his own.

You may be aware that there was a time, long, long ago in a faraway land, when I had a some guitars made out of my wood. One particular wood was called ziracote. It had never been used before on a PRS guitar. How was I supposed to test drive it before I bought it? Apparently, it worked out well, but I can tell you that at first there were a few doubters. While many PS build owners had tried various components before the build, the owners didn't have a chance to play before committing. It's not always possible to play first.




LES, ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?!! My dad used to say, "If we always agreed, we'd be married to the same woman."

 

[11top]

OK, see if you follow this logical progression:

What is the distinguishing feature of the 408 that makes it different from other PRS models whose scale length and body shape/thickness it shares?

Answer: the pickups and electronic switches.

Without the 408 pickups and switches, Would the guitar be a 408?

Answer: No.

Do all 408s have 408 pickups and switching, without exception?

Answer: Yes, 408s all have 408 pickups and switching, without exception.

If you had a guitar without 408 pickups in it, even if it was very similar to a 408, would it be a 408?

Answer: No, it would not be a 408.

It follows then that the 408 model was created to have the 408 pickups/switching as its distinguishing feature, correct?

Answer: Yes. The purpose was to offer a model with 408 pickups and switching.

In the English language, is “the point” of something “the reason for doing it” or put another way, “the purpose for doing it?”

Answer: Yes.

Therefore, the 408 pickups and electronics are the point of the model.

You’re confusing your purpose in buying the guitar from the point of its existence as a separate model. However your purpose, and the guitar’s point, are two different things.

Huh? I could swear that you wrote: "The whole point of buying* a guitar with 408 pickups is, well, having the 408 pickups!"

Well, clearly someone's confused.


*Editor's note: bold added for emphasis and was not part of the original quotation.

 

[László]

LES, ARE WE HAVING FUN YET?!! My dad used to say, "If we always agreed, we'd be married to the same woman."

Absolutely! I love a good discussion!

 

[Tosca]

I love 408s...I would never think of changing out those pickups. I think/hope you’ll be happy with it.

Les and 11Top are equally unique and irreplaceable...thanks for the entertaining display.

 

[11top]

Absolutely! I love a good discussion!

Me, too! And a good euphemism!

 

[László]

I love 408s...I would never think of changing out those pickups. I think/hope you’ll be happy with it.

Les and 11Top are equally unique and irreplaceable...thanks for the entertaining display.

I can’t speak for Steve, but I aim to please.

 

[bodia]

Quick, someone come up with something to keep this going!

 

[László]

It was your contention that the "whole point" of the 408 guitar was the 408s.

The above is what you stated, and what I was replying to.

If that was in fact my contention - and clearly you understood what I meant - then I was correct.

Huh? I could swear that you wrote: "The whole point of buying* a guitar with 408 pickups is, well, having the 408 pickups!"

Well, clearly someone's confused.


*Editor's note: bold added for emphasis and was not part of the original quotation.

Actually, I didn’t remember saying that, but obviously I did. Seems to me that it’s illogical to buy a guitar whose point is the pickups, if you don’t like the pickups.

But I’ll concede that folks do things for illogical reasons.

I still think my statement makes the most common sense.

 

[WeFixFlats]

I had a 408 Standard for a couple of years. A great, great guitar, liked the pickups, and everything else about it, but like a few people, it had to be sold because of GAS to acquire another more expensive PRS.

 

[11top]

The above is what you stated in the post that I was replying to.

If that was in fact my contention - clearly you understood what I meant - then I was correct.



Actually, I didn’t remember saying that, but obviously I did. Seems to me that it’s illogical to buy a guitar whose point is the pickups, if you don’t like the pickups.

But I’ll concede that folks do things for illogical reasons.

I still think my statement makes the most common sense.

Gotcha last!

 

[László]

Gotcha last!

Well, the only way to settle this is to get together, have a few drinks, and ask the nearest woman which of us is better looking.

If it’s a tie, we flip a coin.

With the right number of drinks, it stops mattering (for me, that would be less than one drink). In fact, because it’s past 5:30 here, I’m having a B&B on the rocks, and toasting your health!

PS, In our cases, it’d be best if the woman we ask is a grandma.

 

[11top]

Well, the only way to settle this is to get together, have a few drinks, and ask the nearest woman which of us is better looking.

If it’s a tie, we flip a coin.

With the right number of drinks, it stops mattering (for me, that would be less than one drink).

I’ll win hands down. Just show her my avatar.

And I’ll get better lookin’ the more you drink...........hey, wait a minute.

 

[László]

I’ll win hands down. Just show her my avatar.

See, that’s just unfair. So I suggest we ask my mom, who is still alive.

 

[Tosca]

I had a 408 Standard for a couple of years. A great, great guitar, liked the pickups, and everything else about it, but like a few people, it had to be sold because of GAS to acquire another more expensive PRS.

Wait....you’ve sold actual PEOPLE to fund PRS purchases??? This is a game-changer...*making mental note*.

 

[11top]

See, that’s just unfair. So I suggest we ask my mom, who is still alive.

So’s mine....but she’d choose you.