Any experience with Mesa Express 5:25 combo?

[Gorebomb]

It's a combo amp, with a nifty switch that can toggle from a 5watt or 30watt power... I picked it up used for $750. The clean and 'blues' channel give me awesome tone, however I'm having some trouble getting a tight distortion out of it. I know Mesa tends to be a tad loose and bass-forward on the low end, but it feels lacking in it's overall gain capability. I switch in and out some distortion pedals like Hardwire TL-2 and the Boss MT-2 but the tone really looses it's luster. 5150 Overdrive just exacerbates the tone issues with the amp's gain. I'd appreciate any insight.

 

[WEDGE]

As the gain goes up back off the bass, it’ll keep it tighter.

 

[Gorebomb]

As the gain goes up back off the bass, it’ll keep it tighter.

unfortunately my bass is turned to 0, gain-9, treble-6, mids at 9, contour at 10. The lows sound like wet farts.

 

[WEDGE]

I’d throw some new tubes at it, i usually do that with a used amp anyway. A Mesa should be tight.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I’d throw some new tubes at it, i usually do that with a used amp anyway. A Mesa should be tight.

This. Retune and start fresh. Get all the pedals out from the front and the loop and just learn the amp on it’s own before you start adding pedals. You shouldn’t need anything but whatever boost or OD you want for solo boosts.

 

[Gorebomb]

yeah I'm thinking about new tubes. Once in a while, my amp power randomly cuts in half, and will output at half volume. My guitar will sound horrible until I turn it off and let the tubes cool down a little bit before switching it on again.

 

[Black Plaid]

I have one of these with the 10" speaker ... it never gets played any more (the MkV:25 is so much better). If yours doesn't have an eq (like mine), you might try putting one in the loop, it could help out.

 

[Gorebomb]

I have one of these with the 10" speaker ... it never gets played any more (the MkV:25 is so much better). If yours doesn't have an eq (like mine), you might try putting one in the loop, it could help out.

Mine has a 'contour' knob that basically functions as a crude eq. I'll definitely consider an eq pedal as an option though.

 

[Steve's addiction]

I have a 5:50 plus and it likes to be pushed to get a tight sound. I use the blues setting and push it with 3 distortion pedals, odr-1, SD-1,and the Nux plexi crunch. With all 3 on I get a sweet singing lead and for rhythm I just use the odr-1.

 

[Em7]

That Mesa series is better than the F series, but not by much. These amps are all descendants of the original Caliber series. Mesa really messed these designs up by trying to cater to the drop tuning crowd. The EL84-based circuit does not work well when that much bass is allowed to pass through the gain stages.

The reality is that the graphic EQ is necessary on amp designs that descend from the original Mark series. Even the original Caliber series benefited from having a graphic EQ to remove some of the honk.

 

[HANGAR18]

It's a combo amp, with a nifty switch that can toggle from a 5watt or 30watt power... I picked it up used for $750. The clean and 'blues' channel give me awesome tone, however I'm having some trouble getting a tight distortion out of it. I know Mesa tends to be a tad loose and bass-forward on the low end, but it feels lacking in it's overall gain capability. I switch in and out some distortion pedals like Hardwire TL-2 and the Boss MT-2 but the tone really looses it's luster. 5150 Overdrive just exacerbates the tone issues with the amp's gain. I'd appreciate any insight.

Is it the version which has the EQ sliders? If I were to ever buy one of those, I would insist on the sliders. Some people swear by that amp as being their favorite. I almost bought one after a sales guy dialed in an early James Hetfield tone but I wound up going with the Mark Five:25 instead.

 

[WEDGE]

He didn’t say it’s a Plus so likely no EQ, I had one and threw a Mesa EQ pedal in the loop and HUGE difference. Tone big time.

 

[Gorebomb]

He didn’t say it’s a Plus so likely no EQ, I had one and threw a Mesa EQ pedal in the loop and HUGE difference. Tone big time.

Express line comes with a contour knob that acts as a crude EQ, but doesn't help tightening up the low end at all.

would something like the

MXR M109S Six Band EQ​

be just as effective? Mesa EQ is pricey. I mostly play tech death metal, classic metal and blues so I'm looking for a tight gain with Lamb of God style mids.

 

[WEDGE]

Any eq would work, I just went all Mesa. Whack it into deep v and look out….

 

[Em7]

Express line comes with a contour knob that acts as a crude EQ, but doesn't help tightening up the low end at all.

would something like the

MXR M109S Six Band EQ​

be just as effective? Mesa EQ is pricey. I mostly play tech death metal, classic metal and blues so I'm looking for a tight gain with Lamb of God style mids.

You cannot push that much bass through a 5:25. A lot of guitarists fail to understand that a Mark Series-derived design like a 5:25 is not a Rectifier. The amps have very different topologies. Metal and blues are not going come out of the same amp without one of the two being a compromised tone. A good blues amp is soft and spongy with a lot of power supply sag. That is exact opposite of what one needs for old school or modern metal, which require a power supply with a lot capacitance to keep things tight and immediate.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

That Mesa series is better than the F series, but not by much. These amps are all descendants of the original Caliber series. Mesa really messed these designs up by trying to cater to the drop tuning crowd. The EL84-based circuit does not work well when that much bass is allowed to pass through the gain stages.

The reality is that the graphic EQ is necessary on amp designs that descend from the original Mark series. Even the original Caliber series benefited from having a graphic EQ to remove some of the honk.

Agree with all of this. The few Express series amps I played had a LOUD and pretty good clean channel. My buddy that owned the 50 ended up using the clean channel with pedals because he could never bond with the OD channel. The times I played it, you had to turn the bass WAY down... like almost all the way down, and then it didn't have any. An EQ in the effects loop really helped, but I had a buddy with a 5/25 Express and my Mark V25 was much better, IMO.

Doesn't mean they're bad amps. A good but stiff for my tastes clean channel, and an OD that needed an EQ to be good for "most" things.

 

[Em7]

Any eq would work, I just went all Mesa. Whack it into deep v and look out….

A Mark series amp will not do modern metal regardless of how it is equalized. It will do old school metal, but not the obese bumble bee in a jar tone that dominates modern metal. That tone was developed by exploiting oddities in the Rectifier topology.

 

[WEDGE]

Agreed but who wants that nasty bumble bee tone, give me some Mark V thick chunk and I am good.

 

[Gorebomb]

not a fan of modern metal tone for the most part. I appreciate everyone's input. Basically what I'm gathering here is 1. EQ can tighten up the bass but only to a degree. 2. It's simply impossible to emulate a tight Mark IV and V metal tone with a 5:25 express.

 

[Em7]

It depends on what you mean when you say "tight metal tones," old school metal, yes, modern metal, not on your life. The EL84-based Mesa amps have what is known as the Dyna Watt power amp topology. It uses fixed bias, a large value screen voltage dropping resistor, and considerable screen grid power node capacitance for amp of its power rating. The combination of the large value dropping resistor (5.6K) and capacitor (30uF) result in an explosive peak followed by sag as the capacitor recharges due to the long RC constant for the power supply node.. It is a very musical power amp topology and I am 100% certain that it was a happy accident on Mesa's part. The original Studio .22, which is the ancestor to all of the Mesa EL84-based amps, ran the EL84s at a plate voltage level that would kill a real EL84/6BQ5. An EL84/6BQ5 has maximum specified plate and screen grid voltage levels of 300VDC. The voltage levels at which the Dyna Watt topology operations are 7189 spec. A 7189 is like an EL84 on steroids. It has a maximum plate voltage of 400VDC and a maximum screen grid voltage of 300VDC. The large value power supply dropping resistor exists to get the screen grid power supply node down from 390VDC at the plate supply node to 300VDC. As demand is made on the power amp, more current is drawn through the 5.6K screen supply resistor, resulting in a voltage drop necessitating current draw from the 30uF capacitor. It takes five time constants (5T) to fully recharge a capacitor from a fully uncharged state. The time constant (T) of an RC circuit is equal to resistance (R) x capacitance (C).

T = 5,600 x 0.00003 = 0.168 seconds, or a little less than a 5th of a second.

5T = 5 x 0.168 = 0.84, or 8.4/10ths a second, which is pretty darn long.

This configuration is why the Dyna Watt topology has such a nice singing sustain while being a fixed bias amp. However, it limits how fast the power amp will track notes, so it is not good choice for guys who want to play fast and aggressively with high gain. Playing any Dyna Watt amp clean or at the edge of breakup with a bluesy style is a very rewarding experience. The amp just seems to play itself. It will also do the melodic Santana or Neal Schon thing with higher gain settings, but it will not do high-gain with fast playing without scooping the heck out of the mids and controlling the bass; otherwise, the notes just blur together into a bloated mess.