Amplifiers: Tone Of The Gods Or Tone Of Mere Mortals? What's Your Pleasure Sir Or Madam?

[László]

I'm definitely an EL34 guy (I know I know, I've got a 5881 amp too).

With modern amps I've found it tends to be more about the preamp design than the type of output tubes -- unless you're pushing them into overdrive with quite loud volumes.

I installed NOS Siemens EL34s in my Mesa Lone Star last year; I had a spare quad I hadn't opened and figured why not? The amp can be switched on the back panel into being able to use them. It was a selling point of the amp.

Sounds good, but still sounds mostly like it did with the quad of 6L6s -- except it breaks up a little sooner on the lead channel if you can handle the volume, and the bass is tighter.

Still, it's subtle.

I'm pretty sure if I installed 6L6s in my HXDA (a plexi style amp), it wouldn't sound all that different (the amp will accept 6L6s and other tubes with a re-bias).

 

[Steve's addiction]

I'm sure there are some ss amps that have great tone and some good modellers too but my bread and butter will always lean to tube amps for tone. I would though like to see what a Roland jc120 would sound like for my clean tones.

 

[László]

I'm sure there are some ss amps that have great tone and some good modellers too but my bread and butter will always lean to tube amps for tone. I would though like to see what a Roland jc120 would sound like for my clean tones.

The Cure used a JC120 with a Fender Jazzmaster (or Jaguar, can't remember) on the 'Seventeen Seconds' album. One of my favorite clean sounds ever!

 

[DennyBob]

I played boogies in my metal touring life in the mid 80s to early 90s. Now I play a Kemper Stage into a Suhr Bella's effects return so I get the versitility of the Kemper with the tube power amp section and amazing speaker of the Suhr.

I will buy a Friedman Dirty Shirley Little Sister at some point in the near future just to have a Marhsall~esque one trick pony. Friedman makes better Marshalls now than Marshall.

 

[Floyd_Argus]

I've tried using modelers a couple times but I (and my bandmates) can't get past the lack of depth to the tone compared to a real amp. I tried a Helix a few years ago when they first came out, and just in the last few months I gave the BOSS GT1000 a try. I even gave the "four cable method" a try with the BOSS unit and my tube amp, but there was too much loss of high frequencies from the added cable runs.

 

[Gtrbldr]

Tone of the Gods for me. But, not in a traditional sense.

Have been using digital solutions for quite some years. Helix as an amp sim was usefull (on stage and silent playing), got replaced by Kemper with better amp sounds and home brewn profiles of my own amplifiers. Sounded very good. However; Kemper is really nice, but a real amp with reactive load and IRs is better. And a great amp (BadCat BC30 in my case) loaded down in my case is the sound of the Gods.

 

[DennyBob]

I've tried using modelers a couple times but I (and my bandmates) can't get past the lack of depth to the tone compared to a real amp. I tried a Helix a few years ago when they first came out, and just in the last few months I gave the BOSS GT1000 a try. I even gave the "four cable method" a try with the BOSS unit and my tube amp, but there was too much loss of high frequencies from the added cable runs.

The Kemper isn't a modeler, it's a profiler - it creates a profile of the amp directly from the amp using some soul sucking voodoo. it's like sampling on keyboards. It's a whole other level than a modeler - a modeler is some engineers looking and trying to match sound waveforms to get as close as they can to the real thing. When I bought the Kemper, I test drove the Kemper, the Helix, the AxeFx, the headrush and the Eleven whatever that was out in 2019. Just amp and cabs, no effects. The Kemper was miles above the rest. I have friends that rave about their Helix', but the're swimming in effects, so you're not hearing the subtlety and bloom of the amp.

I still love tube amps, and own several, but in the world I play, they don't fit the stage paradigm - the "silent stage" in ear world. I'd much rather have a modded Marshall 1987 (model #, not year) with a 4 x12

 

[László]

The Kemper isn't a modeler, it's a profiler -

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

However you slice it, and whatever you call it, profiling is just a different modeling technique than pure algorithmic modeling. The Kemper uses impulse responses plus internal algorithms to model amps.

 

[DISTORT6]

The Kemper isn't a modeler, it's a profiler

We’re not a cover band! We’re a TRIBUTE band! - Rockstar the movie

 

[Greywolf]

Blues Deluxe Tweed .. sweet and simple. reverb and a touch of gain on tap .. no pedals required.
Fed EX say it'll be here Sunday .
Can't wait to hear it in the Cafe' at Open Mic. It's time for the Electric players to have a proper amp to play through.

 

[andy474x]

I played boogies in my metal touring life in the mid 80s to early 90s. Now I play a Kemper Stage into a Suhr Bella's effects return so I get the versitility of the Kemper with the tube power amp section and amazing speaker of the Suhr.

I will buy a Friedman Dirty Shirley Little Sister at some point in the near future just to have a Marhsall~esque one trick pony. Friedman makes better Marshalls now than Marshall.

You'll love the Little Sister, a friend of mine has the Twin Sister and it's a fantastic amp. I had a VERY hard time deciding whether to go with the TS or the Smallbox, ended up getting the Smallbox but I can't say one amp is better than the other.

If you want some of that lovin' in a box, the Dirty Shirley pedal is excellent, too. It's my go-to any time I need to use a pedal into a clean amp for my lead tone. The Smallbox pedal is great, as well.

 

[andy474x]

Hmm... overdue post ahead.

My natural tendency is to want Beef Wellington, and I've sprung for it on a few occasions - HXDA, Custom 50, Smallbox, and the '66 Super (with the most excellent original CTS alnico speakers). Speaking of, I'm also a freak when it comes to speakers, I'll tinker all day to find the right match of speakers to amp, and I really believe it has taken some of my amps to that top level.

That said, I've seen some players use amps that I'll walk right past in a guitar shop, to excellent effect. Have seen guys use small Fender amps in pairs, Blues Juniors, or even a couple of the solid state Fender combos with a small effects suite, I think the Mustang II or Champ II, something like that. Or a single Hot Rod Deluxe. It keeps me grounded, not necessarily wanting those amps, but knowing that there's a validity to some of the more common, affordable amps. To that end, I've used several of the more affordable PRS amps to excellent effect. They fall under that umbrella, but they also reach up and grab much of the goodness from what would normally be a more expensive amp. PRS does a great job making their amps what I would call very natural and "honest" in their tone. Other affordable brands' amps play like they have bumpers on the bowling lane, it's almost hard to get the amp outside the sound they want for it, but that can make the tone more artificial sounding, too. PRS amps (IMO) can be less forgiving in the tone shaping sometimes, but the payoff is greater when I find "it," and that's what sets their more affordable amps apart. Not necessarily at that high level of the USA made amps, but they still put a big smile on my face when I play them. I enjoy a good burger, too!

 

[László]

My natural tendency is to want Beef Wellington, and I've sprung for it on a few occasions - HXDA, Custom 50, Smallbox, and the '66 Super (with the most excellent original CTS alnico speakers). Speaking of, I'm also a freak when it comes to speakers, I'll tinker all day to find the right match of speakers to amp, and I really believe it has taken some of my amps to that top level.

That said, I've seen some players use amps that I'll walk right past in a guitar shop, to excellent effect. Have seen guys use small Fender amps in pairs, Blues Juniors, or even a couple of the solid state Fender combos with a small effects suite, I think the Mustang II or Champ II, something like that. Or a single Hot Rod Deluxe. It keeps me grounded, not necessarily wanting those amps, but knowing that there's a validity to some of the more common, affordable amps. To that end, I've used several of the more affordable PRS amps to excellent effect. They fall under that umbrella, but they also reach up and grab much of the goodness from what would normally be a more expensive amp. PRS does a great job making their amps what I would call very natural and "honest" in their tone. Other affordable brands' amps play like they have bumpers on the bowling lane, it's almost hard to get the amp outside the sound they want for it, but that can make the tone more artificial sounding, too. PRS amps (IMO) can be less forgiving in the tone shaping sometimes, but the payoff is greater when I find "it," and that's what sets their more affordable amps apart. Not necessarily at that high level of the USA made amps, but they still put a big smile on my face when I play them. I enjoy a good burger, too!

I'm more or less with ya. I love the Wellington and I love a good cheeseburger.

But they both turn into poop the next day, so neither type of food is much of a long-term investment...

Lately I've been living with my amps for a decade or more. I'm picky, but it seems to be working out.

 

[strat63]

Edited so you can see the highlighted part

There are players who buy stuff for looks, but I'm not including them because we're talking audio here, not stylin'.

I started playing Boogies specifically because of how they looked. There was a music store when I was a young man that had this incredible assortment of hardwood Boogie combos. I'm not sure my teenage self could ever get a good sound out of them at the time but I knew I had to have one. It turns out a Mark IIb is my sound and almost everything else seems like a compromise. That amp is my beef wellington.

Last week I played out with a 64 SG Jr, a guitar cable, and a Deluxe Reverb. It's kind of like a cheeseburger, right? Good enough even though I'd much prefer my own thing.

 

[DennyBob]

You like the IIb better than the unicorn IIC? .

I think the IIC got so much attention because it’s the sound of Metallica, Dream Theater and Queensryche.

I have a Mark V. I used to have a 50 Caliber with a 4x12 in the late 80s.

 

[DennyBob]

. . . To that end, I've used several of the more affordable PRS amps to excellent effect. They fall under that umbrella, but they also reach up and grab much of the goodness from what would normally be a more expensive amp. PRS does a great job making their amps what I would call very natural and "honest" in their tone. Other affordable brands' amps play like they have bumpers on the bowling lane, it's almost hard to get the amp outside the sound they want for it, but that can make the tone more artificial sounding, too. PRS amps (IMO) can be less forgiving in the tone shaping sometimes, but the payoff is greater when I find "it," and that's what sets their more affordable amps apart. Not necessarily at that high level of the USA made amps, but they still put a big smile on my face when I play them. I enjoy a good burger, too!

The Sonzera is a whole lot of amp for the money - I’d say without hesitation it’s as good as some amps 3x the price. The fact that PRS does all their new guitar demos with one says alot - the tone is amazing. At least Top Sirloin.

 

[László]

Last week I played out with a 64 SG Jr, a guitar cable, and a Deluxe Reverb. It's kind of like a cheeseburger, right? Good enough even though I'd much prefer my own thing.

I played for many years with a '65 SG Special (lives with my son now) and a '67 Bassman; so I'm used to a pretty similar rig.

I'd say you were playing real deal steak. Just my two cents!

 

[dkilpatrick]

Tales From Laz' Crypt, #49,862.5

On Saturday I played through my amps and couldn't get a tone I liked. Yesterday I played through the same amps, no changes, and got phenomenal tones.

The meter on my power reservoir said 121 Volts on both days.

So I think maybe it was just one of those weird things, where the amps are fine, the guitars are fine, but my brain is not functioning normally.

"Your brain rarely functions normally."

"If I was normal I wouldn't be talking to you, would I?"

I’ve encountered this many times. Two different days, nothing has changed in any settings but the first day it sounds glorious and the second ….meh. I believe our ears and perception change more frequently. Sometimes I think “hmmm what was the relative humidity on that day vs today?” Then I have a few drinks and everything sounds magical again.

 

[Wyzard]

You like the IIb better than the unicorn IIC? .

I think the IIC got so much attention because it’s the sound of Metallica, Dream Theater and Queensryche.

I have a Mark V. I used to have a 50 Caliber with a 4x12 in the late 80s.

The MkIIB went through a number of changes during its life-span. Some of the late IIBs - those with RP9C boards in them, and which have had the loop mod - are more useful (IMO and depending on context) than the later models. There's a grain to the distortion that sets them apart, and which also helps the amp cut through in a dense arrangement. Smooth isn't always what's required!

Also: I think you're referring to the IIC+, not its (under-achieving) IIC older brother. I'm on my fourth IIC+, and it's the best one I've ever owned*.


It's well to remember that it was probably Brad Gillis who got the whole "hard rock with Boogies" thing started, and he used a MkIIB. I've also got a bunch of other earlier and later Mks; and the one that gets the most use out of all of them is my factory-modded Coliseum IIB




[*and by some measure, the best I've ever played through - a lot of my Boogie-owning friends have had them too over the decades]

 

[strat63]

The MkIIB went through a number of changes during its life-span. Some of the late IIBs - those with RP9C boards in them, and which have had the loop mod - are more useful (IMO and depending on context) than the later models. There's a grain to the distortion that sets them apart, and which also helps the amp cut through in a dense arrangement. Smooth isn't always what's required!

Also: I think you're referring to the IIC+, not its (under-achieving) IIC older brother. I'm on my fourth IIC+, and it's the best one I've ever owned*.


It's well to remember that it was probably Brad Gillis who got the whole "hard rock with Boogies" thing started, and he used a MkIIB. I've also got a bunch of other earlier and later Mks; and the one that gets the most use out of all of them is my factory-modded Coliseum IIB




[*and by some measure, the best I've ever played through - a lot of my Boogie-owning friends have had them too over the decades]

One of my IIBs has the loop mod and the RP9C board. It's a great amp that works for me. I also have a IIA, 3 other IIBs, a King Snake, a Fillmore 25, Mark V35, Mark VII, and most recently a Badlander 50 combo. It seems like Boogies are for me.