Amplifiers: Tone Of The Gods Or Tone Of Mere Mortals? What's Your Pleasure Sir Or Madam?

[László]

It's a slow day for new topics around here, so I propose we discuss something just for fun and for no other reason.

When it comes to amp tone, there are players who're satisfied only with the finest examples of their preferred Tone that I will jokingly call 'Tone of the Gods', that of course being a relative term that means different things to different players.

There are players who don't much care about the stuff that must please Tone Jupiter, they're happy with whatever comes pretty close to their preferred tone and aren't all that picky (again, this is something that may mean different things to different players).

There are players who buy stuff for looks, but I'm not including them because we're talking audio here, not stylin'.

I don't often buy amps. My newest amp is 5 years old or so, and my oldest has been here for 12 years. At the time I bought each of my amps, I did it because I felt they best represented the type of audio I wanted - at the time - regardless of price. The only consideration is whether the amp is the best thing I can find for my purposes.

That they've been around this long here tells me I learned somehow to make choices that have truly worked for me.

Most players, on the other hand, seem to be quite satisfied with 'good'. If it sounds good, it's good and the search ends there, with price often being the dealbreaker or dealmaker.

Then there are modelers. For me, a modeler is a bridge too far, too much of a compromise. For others, 9X% of perfect is quite sufficient, thank you very much.

I'd probably call myself a 'Tone of the Gods' person. I'll get what I think best represents the type of tone I want. Doesn't much matter what it costs to get in the game. Sometimes, it's a lot. Sometimes it's well within the reach of less-obsessed players.

Let's say there's a continuum - that is, sometimes perfection, sometimes a compromise, whatever.

Where on the continuum are you? Beef Wellington-only? Cheesburgers are fine? Somewhere in-between?

PS - Have fun with this. There are no right or wrong answers. This won't be on the final.

"There's a test?"

"There's always a test. But it's not today."

 

[gush]

I'm a guy that sees something good on the menu and orders it only to find i don't like it.

I've ordered a ton of food but I'm still hungry.

 

[Black Plaid]

Tone is insanely context dependent.

Which is why I like the MK series boogies, they let you modify the signal coming in and going out of the pre-amp stage where the overdrive character mostly lives.

My current fave for noodling in the office / music room is the crunch channel on the Mk 5:25. It goes from edge of breakup to chugga chugga in a most delightful way to me.

I don't know if it's my brain or something else, but some days it sounds better than others. I feel this has always been the case with every amp I've ever owned.

 

[mixmkr]

I think amps are some of the nicest looking pieces of gear...but more the infrequent stuff....like a Dual Showman on a 2x15 cab with the D-130 dust caps peeking thru the grillcloth or a Vox Super Beatle....they are gorgeous to look at. Of course in minty condition. None of that old, tattered tweed stuff with cig burns and circular water stains. Even a Super Reverb. Thing is I'd never use them and the last of my Ampeg V4 stacks got a new owner 20 years ago.
I therefore have my Owen's Corning 703 absorbers covered in new Vox, Marshall, Fender, etc grillcloth and look like 4x12 cabs hanging on my studio walls.

I migrated into modelers around the turn of the century...maybe a little earlier, but was never happy until I got my Helix, 7 or 8 years ago. My Helix with the occasional additional external FX can do things my amps couldn't come close to. I don't try to "amp model" like the product name suggests, but just achieve a "good" sound....and yes it's usually more high gain, than not. Granted some sounds resemble the amp models inside the Helix. But like I think some of the greats like Hendrix or Gilmore were not specifically looking for that Strat into a 100watt head, but just a good sound...is more akin to my philosophy.
I can move extremely fast thru the Line6 parameters and am easily way beyond scrolling thru menus just searching...but I'll do that too...if not just for fun or looking for surprises. There's lots of choices....if you want.

As far as guitars, I enjoy variety and have pretty much all the bases covered and I'm not limited to needing vintage or $15k PRS to feel inspired playing them.

I feel guitar players and recording musicians nowadays have the best, at our choosing, way beyond the stuff available during the "glory days" of tape and 1500lb recording desks. I'm loving it! And yes..tone is VERY important. A HUGE part of my simple productions. I don't just "settle"...but I also don't waste time fiddling around either.

 

[Maertl513]

I walked on a path as a guitarist, that kept me relatively modest and simple.
First amp - solid state - bought in 1992 new. Sometime it happened to be that it was out of order.
Second amp - tube head made under the Californian sun in 1993 - bought in 1995 second hand. Came with a DIY 1×12. I had no hurry, getting a 4×12 for it. But I did in 2011 or 2012.
And you can guess, how relevant this amp was then.
The other year I purchased a 2×12 combo, because this was connectable with a special link to my Line 6 gear at the time.
And this is the reason: I went through several device revisions of Line 6. I ended with HELIX Floor in 2018.
Though it's a very large library I limit(ed) myself to less than a dozen of own presets I use.
But I keep it always updated.
I returned to a classic rig consisting of one amp - tiny 4 channel Class D with 100W - and a custom cab (1×10/1×12 in a 2×12 housing).
I have a standard EQ, the only things I adjust is general volume and gain.
And I own one tube mic.

KISSSAS - Keep it smart, short, simple, and stupid.

 

[Greywolf]

Tone is what we chase ..sometimes endlessly . While I'll admit I"m a sucker for paisley , I love my Blue Sierra because of the plug and play tone in my head every time. Same with my old Boogie and my DG30. I don't need bells and whistles or fancy features .

 

[GGJJGG]

There is nothing like the sound of an opened up tube amplifier. There is also nothing like the “talking to” I get when I do. So the Spark headphones have their place in my universe.

 

[veinbuster]

Interesting. My history probably illustrates my bias.

Early 70s: crap amp, which might have forced my to get the most I could out of my fingers.
Mid 70s: Fender Bassman had a fairly narrow sound, but worked well in bars. I added an extra head for arenas - Targus solid state that I really liked, but I melted it (and a couple other solid state). Still have the Bassman.
Mid 80s: a little Peavy for the living room. It made me believe that low power wouldn’t give me the sound I wanted.
Late 80s: Boogie Mark III. I found two different sounds that really worked for me. I think I really found my voice with this amp. I’m not sure which gods it is the tone of, but it probably qualifies.
Early 10s: Boogie Mark V. my wife bought this because I found being able to pre set 3 sounds appealing. With the Mark III, you have to spin knobs to get to your other sound. Both Boogies are wood with cane grills and they sit side by side. I now have 4 distinct sounds without spinning dials.
Early 10s: MDT. My wife bought this as well because it looked great and had a very different sound. It is dirty…really dirty. Doesn’t fit in my music (dining) room though.

So, I think that means mortals have questionable taste. Go with the gods.

I don’t mind cheeseburgers, but I want them made with good meat and real cheese and maybe some avocado.

 

[RickP]

I’ll break into the modeler discussion… I’ve played tube amps for a long time, decades. I still own 4 Boogies (Mk I, Road King II, California Tweed 4:40, Nomad 55 4x10), 2 HX/DAs, an old Fender Super Reverb from ‘64, and just sold my AC30 this week. That last one is just too damn heavy to lug around! I play my amps a lot, and the sound is the sound. There’s nothing 100% like it.

I’ve been gigging Fractal Audio modelers since 2011. Although I take amps/pedals to jams, the paying live work has been modelers. Let’s get it out of the way: a modelers can only, at its zenith, sound as good as the amp it models. Easier to cart? More consistent gig-to-gig? Simpler to get into the PA? Yes to all. But better sounding than an amp in its zone? The very description of “model” pretty much precludes that. If it became better, it would no longer be accurate, so I leave it at saying that it is the best way to get the flavor of the amp modeled consistently in a constantly changing, indoor/outdoor, all kinds of weather live environment.

When I can, I use an amp. When you get them right, it is the tone of gods, at least with a lower case g.

The best analogy I can think of is doing carpentry. Man, there is nothing better than a huge, heavy, bolted-to-the-floor table saw with in-feed and out-feed tables. You can’t touch it for accuracy and getting the best result. But more times than not, and especially for onsite mobile work, a folding contractor table saw is the weapon of choice. It just works better in the moment, and gives a result that can be nearing as good as the big dog if you’re mindful of how you use it. At any rate, the people paying for the work absolutely cannot tell the difference. It gets the job done satisfactorily. It’s the best tool for the situation.

It’s like that. They can be used together, or each to its own best advantage. Amps and modelers both have a place at my table.

(Clarity statement; I only have a contractor saw. I have to pay for access to the crazy good stuff.)

 

[Prina]

Modelers ... better sounding than an amp in its zone? The very description of “model” pretty much precludes that.

When I can, I use an amp. When you get them right, it is the tone of gods, at least with a lower case g.

They can be used together, or each to its own best advantage. Amps and modelers both have a place at my table.

This.

Of course @RickP is singing to the choir here as my weapons of choice are Fractal FM9 (Helix was the gateway drug) + Archon 25W combo (with 5751 in V3 slot) + Marshall 50W Plexi (#1987 clone in the works).

For playing, a big part of that tone of the gods is due to having a real amp going through a real cab. It's the real thing and that last 5%, 1% or .01% makes enough of a difference that in the right settings it's clearly the way to go as the one making the music. Having the right monitors makes a huge difference for modelers but getting something like a Meyer stage monitor would cost more and probably weigh more than the amps.

For recording, my best sound is a real amp + FM9. The signal chain is: guitar -> Fractal (for pre-effects) -> Archon -> Suhr RL load box -> Fractal (for IR + post-effects). There's also the option of bypassing the Suhr's load and powering a cab at the same time while recording the signal thru the Suhr/Fractal. Folks like @László with high end cabs, mics, preamps + a studio might be better, but in a mix I'm not sure many listeners would be able to tell the difference.

 

[KentuckyBoiledChiccan]

Some cats could do with one amp and 15 guitars. Im a polar opposite at heart. I love amps. Amplifiers excite me so much more. Im currently in no position to own more than one, due to space restrictions, though. You know my amp of choice, Les; you own Fillmore yourself. Its THE one amp to rule them all as far as I see it. I have decided to sneak in a new amp which is currently built, though. I gonna leave it at that, in case I have a change of heart, but Im quite excited

 

[deathworlder]

I've whittled my tube amps down to a JMP 2203 and a 'Brown'-modded Deluxe Reverb...

ADA MP-1>BBE> MosValve is my hybrid rig...

I'd say 75% of my playing is done with a Headrush Flex Prime in stereo with two Headrush FRFR-108s.

 

[jays0n]

I need the Tone of the Gods but it must be had within the Cleaning Staff of the Gods' budget.

I definitely have a tone in my head that I must have if playin rockin stuff. However, I have found I will keep selling any pricy gear I get until I have that same sound via some totally underrated underdog inexpensive alternative.

It has taken a lot of time, $$$, and reverb/ebay/craigs selling for me to learn what is actually wrong with me. Maybe therapy would help

 

[Tony M.]

My tone of the Gods:

Mid '60's ES 355 into a DR 103 pushing cabs loaded with original EV SRO 12 speakers.
(No effects needed.)

Tone of the Gods but it will knock the fillings out of your teeth.

(Time goes by...)
Too big, too loud too heavy?
Scale it down.

Same guitar into a
Mid '60's Fender Bassman top pushing its original cabinet,
(again loaded with EV SRO 12s.)

(More time goes by...)
I'm fairly old now.

ES 335 into an original 1964 Fender Deluxe.
(PRS S2 Mira Semi hollow will work too.)
Sennheiser E 609 in front of it.
Trust the sound guy.

(I also have a Supro Comet with a Jensen P10 Q in it.
It uses a single 6L6 in the power section.
(E609 in front of it again.)
This amplifier sounds shockingly good.)

(If you paid attention while reading this post,
you learned something about me.)

I like parentheses.

 

[aamefford]

I’m a member of the “Great Unwashed Masses.” I like stuff that mostly sounds like songs I came of age to. So 70’s through 90’s. There was some arrested development in there. I like tube amps, especially those that get most of their gain from the preamp. I like to play quiet(er). I don’t seem to care if it’s a tube amp, modeler, pedalboard modeler thing, katana type thing. I’m starting to realize this could save me money. Except for the part where I’ve already spent money on one or more of each. I’ve always envisioned myself as a Michelin star type of guy in my pursuits du jour. I wish I’d figured out decades ago I’m really a taco truck kinda guy.

 

[László]

This is why I come here, to this place. Within these hallowed halls are wonderful friends who add to the joy of being alive.

Great comments so far!

 

[László]

Some cats could do with one amp and 15 guitars. Im a polar opposite at heart. I love amps. Amplifiers excite me so much more.

Right now I have more amps than electric guitars. I could sell off a guitar and not miss it far more easily than an amp.

So we're just alike in that regard.

 

[Monahan]

My all-time favorite amp is the Fender Deluxe Reverb, so I guess a cheeseburger with... mustard.

That said, now that I'm older-- with back problems-- I don't like lugging around heavy tube amps when light-weight alternatives are available, AND sound really good... which I would equate as a hamburger patty with a slice of tomato between two slices of thin-cut sourdough

NF53 in Home Studio B

Myles Kennedy in Home Studio A

I've been blessed these last few days to have cheese burgers for lunch... yesterday with fries & a shake, today with tots & a root beer... So, the Boss amps (Nextone/Katana) could be thought of as tots & a shake, while the Tone Master Deluxe the fries & root beer

Like most of us, I LOVE the boutique amps, but not for every day use; I'll call those amps steak with a Guinness (or two!)

 

[Jcub]

As a lazy piano/synth person, I have zero attachment to guitar or guitar amp history.

I am blissfully ignorant of the guitar so and so played on classic song X in 1975 when engineer Y was drunk and moved a super special microphone 90 degrees to the right in front of tube amplifier Z, manufactured by specially trained hippy sea monkeys, and rock and roll history was forever changed.

And like all good lazy piano/synth people who dabble in guitar, I scroll through presets on modeling software in the studio, find a sound I like, and tweak away until I am happy hacking away and recording a track. Rock and roll history is not made.

The very excellent guitar player in one band I play in thinks modelers sound fantastic but does not like the feel when playing through one.

Another very excellent guitar player I record with is obsessed with guitar and amp history.

He played on a John McLaughlin style tune of mine and sent me a very nice note with a detailed description of the exact signal chain John used on the Mahavishnu Orchestra’s Inner Mountain Flame album.

He used the exact same guitar, but everything else in the duplicated signal chain was modeled through a Kemper (and he is *extremely* picky).

My brother (a Grammy and Emmy winning audio engineer and excellent player) feels that modelers have reached the point of being virtually indistinguishable from a real amp in a recording and live context. He also builds tube amps. But he has an audio engineer friend with the precise opposite opinion.

IMHO, you can’t beat a modeler if you value the combination of convenience, breadth of available sounds, and sound quality. But if you play better with a real amp because of the feel or connection to history or looks, the amp is worth it.

Now if I could only train hippy sea monkeys to play guitar tracks for me…

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I only believe in the Greek Gods, so my choices are:

Ares

https://imgur.com/a/sG4CoQB

Hermaphroditus

https://imgur.com/a/obhLK7U

And Narcissus (shown in the background)

https://imgur.com/a/jqlv4gV