Amp/gear to go with Strat and possible PRSi

[moT]

I don't have a PRSi yet, but my son has a deluxe strat and currently has a Pignose that he uses at home. He recently had to use the Pignose with mikes for a large audience and the sound sucked so it got me thinking I need to figure out a better way with the requirement that it still fits in the back of a minivan behind all the seats along with the guitar(s) and various suitcases.

I know pretty much zilch about electric guitars and gear having only played and/or performed on acoustic instruments up to now using at most external mikes. What's the next step in terms of pedals, amps and other gear? I am also trying to get ahead of the birthday/Christmas rush, so I want to get a little education and not waste too much money jumping on the first thing I see on Amazon for instance.

Saw some of you recommended the Yamaha THR10C in another thread for example, but want to find out more before I do anything.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[László]

I don't have a PRSi yet, but my son has a deluxe strat and currently has a Pignose that he uses at home. He recently had to use the Pignose with mikes for a large audience and the sound sucked so it got me thinking I need to figure out a better way with the requirement that it still fits in the back of a minivan behind all the seats along with the guitar(s) and various suitcases.

I know pretty much zilch about electric guitars and gear having only played and/or performed on acoustic instruments up to now using at most external mikes. What's the next step in terms of pedals, amps and other gear? I am also trying to get ahead of the birthday/Christmas rush, so I want to get a little education and not waste too much money jumping on the first thing I see on Amazon for instance.

Saw some of you recommended the Yamaha THR10C in another thread for example, but want to find out more before I do anything.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom, the Yamaha THR10C is a mini-amp for bedroom playing, like a modern type of pignose.

That's not for performing live with a band.

Amps all sound different. What kind of music does your son play? How loud does he need to be to be heard above the rest of the band? Etc.

The style of the music often dictates one's amp choice. For example, you wouldn't use most "metal" amps on a jazz gig (though you probably could with a PRS Archon), nor would you use a "clean" amp on a metal gig, unless you had some pretty badazz pedals.

And there are lots of other, in-between, choices; I mentioned only two examples of the differences, there are a zillion and one choices out there. You probably wouldn't see Hendrix playing a solid state jazz amp, but you wouldn't see very many trad jazzers playing a 100 watt Marshall stack, either.

The amp's power output relates to how loud the amp needs to be. Double the power, and you only increase the volume by 3 decibels, but even a low wattage amp can be darn loud, depending on the circumstances, and the amp, etc.

Still, in a big room with a loud band, 100 watts isn't too much. However, in a small room with certain styles of music, 30 watts can be too much. Thus, it all depends.

And small wattage amps will often distort at lower volume levels, while large wattage amps have more clean headroom. Again, this can depend on the amp's design.

Another question is, is your son musically ready for top-line gear, or is he still young enough that hobby gear will be fine? If he's coming along as a really good player, he won't be happy with the junky stuff for very long. However, if he's just a beginner, or very young, it can be awhile before he's ready for the good stuff.

There's a lot of absolute junk on the market, and a lot of very great, expensive stuff, so it pays to do your homework, which obviously, you're doing.

BTW, "PRSi" is used to denote more than one PRS, it's sort of a Latin style plural (think "cacti" for more than one cactus), it's PRS if you're talking only one. I prefer to use the standard English "PRSes" for more than one, but I have given up arguing that point with the guys here.

Oh one more thing:

The type of guitar isn't all that relevant to picking an amp, in my opinion; it's much more about the style of music. Most decent guitars will work with any amp. The amp has a bigger impact on the sound that comes out than the guitar does.

If your son is old enough to understand what he likes, the smart thing would be to take him with you to a guitar store, and let him play through a bunch of amps in your price/wattage range, and see what he relates to.

That's what my dad did for me back when I was a teenager just getting started with bands, and it's a formula that works pretty darn well.

If he's not old enough to have a handle on his current needs, none of this matters much, and please ignore my advice.

 

[moT]

He's still pretty young, but he's been playing guitar for over 5 years and is pretty darn picky too. IMHO picky is a good quality. I will keep studying for a while and see what would work best for him. This last thing was a solo gig and his singing got lost a couple of times by the sound guys.

BTW, "PRSi" is used to denote more than one PRS, it's sort of a Latin style plural (think "cacti" for more than one cactus), it's PRS if you're talking only one.

Sorry! I thought PRSi meant Paul Reed Smith instrument or Paul Reed Smith instruments, so it could go either way.

BTW I found a gorgeous used 2015 513, but I am not ready to get my first PRS just yet as I am still figuring out exactly what I want and comparing that to how much money is in the old pocket book.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

What genre(s) is he playing?

"Sounds kinda like Weezer" is going to produce a different answer than, "Sounds kinda like Cannibal Corpse".

 

[Kazz]

Les might hit me for suggesting this, but if you have too much trouble narrowing it down to a specific amp, you might consider something like the Kemper or maybe Axe FX or Line 6 Helix.

They will not be as good as any high end single amp, but they will give you many different simulated amps to work with (the Kemper can be used to capture and simulate any amp, although it is specific to the mic and mic placement used, settings to some extent, etc.).

They also give you some effects and do it all in a very small package that's very convenient for gigging. I think it's a better option than buying an expensive amp you're not sure about.

Maybe Les will forgive me when I say that while I had been seriously considering one of these modeling amps when I was less sure about what I wanted, he and more research have convinced me that I'll overall be happier with real tube amps like the HX/DA and Archon, and if you can try some really *good* amps in person, I think you should.

(Guitar Center probably isn't the place to shop for good amps unless you're okay with a very limited selection of models/brands or you get lucky and find something used that they don't carry.)

 

[László]

Les might hit me for suggesting this, but if you have too much trouble narrowing it down to a specific amp, you might consider something like the Kemper or maybe Axe FX or Line 6 Helix.

Actually, I think that's a good idea for a young guy who may not yet know what he wants, but I have a less expensive idea along that line:

Amp modeling software usually has several different amp styles modeled, and sometimes a whole bunch of different amps (thinking something like Guitar Rig here).

It's not terribly expensive, and a person can experiment with broad representations of the different styles of amps - even though they're not the real thing - and of course the software's good for practicing and working out ideas, too.

Granted, I prefer real tube amps, and I'm probably never going to change that, but the studio work I do is a career, so my amps have to be professional tools. However, I'm not THAT bad!!

 

[Dusty Chalk]

I just wanted to add that a nice versatile 1x12 combo would probably be a good place to start. My friend who regularly gigs out in small clubs uses a 1x12 for cleans, edge of breakup, and slightly dirtier tones, and it's more than up to the task. They're usually asking him to turn it down, not up. PRS has several, but I'm not up on their current lineup, but as was said, if he hasn't settled on a style or a tone or a set of tones, then it's pretty hard to suggest something (believe me, this is exactly where I was a year or two ago).

But don't let this lack of knowing what you want prevent you from trying stuff -- half the fun is trying stuff, and worst case, you can rule something out; best case, you can find "your tone" on the first try.

...or one of your tones...

 

[moT]

Something like a Fender Mustang III or is that too much? I know he's used one before that was loaned out.

 

[Boogie]

Something like a Fender Mustang III or is that too much? I know he's used one before that was loaned out.

Yeah, something like that or a Line 6 Spider type thing. Super cheap, flexible, reasonably good sounding and small. Plus, there's a headphone output to keep the parents sane. But I don't discourage playing without headphones because I miss hearing almost continual guitar and piano/keyboard work in the morning. When they grow up and move out, you miss these things, regardless of how annoying it might have been at 6am.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

IMHO, if you don't know what you want yet, buy a solid basic tube 1x12 combo, like a Peavey Classic 30 or Fender HRD. Then start trying differently voiced gain pedals until you know what you like. Once you settle on that, which might take a couple years, then you're ready to pony up for those amps.

Additional advice: (no charge). If you hang out at The Gear Page pedal forums, you'll soon have a massive wealth of knowledge (some of it even correct!) about pedals. If you hang out at The Gear Page pedal forum for long, you'll get on a Merry-Go-Round that two years form now you'll realize you could have any tube amp you wanted for what you've spent on pedals in the last two years. Buy used and flip til you find what you like, and buy the "affordable good" pedals, not the really expensive ones. Try some Barber pedals. David makes great stuff and it's not expensive.

Edit: after re-reading the OP, this may be over-doing it a bit. If you can get away with some volume, my post stands. If not, a modeling amp like one of the Mustangs may be the way to go.

 

[László]

Just out of curiosity, how old is the young man in question?

 

[moT]

10.5

 

[László]

10.5

Yeah, a bit young for a big time amp at this stage. But four years from now, he'll be bugging you for a new one.

 

[squirrel211]

Be careful in the Gear Acquisition Waters, moT!!! Here's an example of how things can go sideways on you:

For a first amp, you could grab him something like a solid state Fender Champion 40, for $250. He MAY have trouble keeping up with a hard hitting drummer though, so you better go for the $350 Champion 100. If he uses pedals though, you may want to get something tube, because pedals tend to sound like a swarm of angry bees through solid state amps, so maybe look at getting a Blues Junior for $530. That's only 15 watts though, and you probably want more headroom, so get the Hot Rod Deluxe instead; $725.00. That will definitely lose its value though, so maybe get him something like a vintage Bassman/Bandmaster head, which is about the same amount of money, and will DEFINITELY hold its value! Then you just need to add a speaker cab, which will run about $300 for something simple, so you're all in for around $1025. The pedals are important too, you will want a pedal that is "transparent" and "amp like;" so you're going to want a (insert pedal name here) which run about $170-$250. So you're looking at $1250-ish total. But heck, a PRS Archon 25 fits the original bill perfectly, and brand new they're only like $100 more than finding all of those other pieces, AND it would be brand new with a warranty from a great company with excellent customer service! Get him a PRS Archon 25.

Congrats on your boy being interested in music! I have 2 sons, 4 years and 3 weeks, and I'm hoping they catch the bug too!

 

[moT]

Yeah, a bit young for a big time amp at this stage. But four years from now, he'll be bugging you for a new one.

That's why I want to get something that works well enough for me that he can grow into. He's happy OK with the Pignose but already wants more. Whatever I get, I want it small enough that I can load it and at least one guitar with the luggage and not raise any eyebrows on minivan trips.

 

[aristotle]

I'm assuming that you will use the amp as well with your new PRS? If so, then my recommendation might be a little different than those above.

On the assumption that you both might want to get some use out of the amp I'd recommend going with a nice clean platform that you can use pedals with to suit your individual tastes or moods. Something like a used Fender Deluxe Reverb is an outstanding tube amp that work extremely well with any pedal. It's portable. reliable, and even if he or you get the bug and expand, that Deluxe will still get use...lots of people play them out in decent sized clubs because they sound great, are pretty inexpensive in the scheme of things and are very convenient. And for my tastes at least, they are as good at any amp in terms of "sounding right" with any pedal that you throw at them, including those do everything pedal boards.

 

[Screamingdaisy]

In my opinion... trying to pick one amp that suits both of you when he's still that young and relatively undecided is the tail wagging the dog. I'd choose something that's 100% suitable for the music that you want to play, since it's likely that your tastes are still a relatively big influence in his life and will be for another 2-3 years before the hormones really kick in, he gets a stupid haircut and starts listening to different music because that's what his friends are into. In 5-6 he could be playing Melodic Death Metal.... Or he could be playing Taylor Swift covers.... Or maybe something in between. Or maybe by then he thinks the guitar is stupid and programs video game music in your basement? Who knows?

So... What music do you like? And what bands have a sound you could go for? It's usually a good idea to check out what gear your favourite bands are using, then look for similarities. In my case, I thought I wanted a Marshall because it was the amp to have where I grew up, but after doing the research I learned that most of my favourite bands used Mesa amps... so, I bought a Mesa amp.

 

[László]

That's why I want to get something that works well enough for me that he can grow into.

Heh. The charade ends. Nice way to get yourself an amp!

"Hon, our son needs a guitar amp because he's getting pretty good."

"Are you sure it's not for you?"

"Oh yeah, I'm only thinking about our boy's musical development."

"OK, then."

"I want to get him something he can grow into so I don't have to replace it in a couple of years. Because that, uh...makes the most...er...financial sense. "

"I smell a rat..."

It'll be Dad's amp.

Get yourself a good, big boy amp and have some fun!

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Yeah, now that I know the age, a Mustang would be killer for him. Buy the size you are comfortable with and he'll have so many tonz he'll be in heaven.

 

[moT]

"I smell a rat..."

She already knows and wants me to do something about my closet of musical yesterdays. On the other hand, every time I bring something out to consider for selling, one of the kids pipes up to tell me they want to take my old 7 string guitar or that particular school band instrument with them when they move out.

On acoustic I play everything from Slash to Clapton (both poorly of course) with a little Elton, Elvis and Weird Al thrown in for the wife and kids. I also dabble in jazz and Sinatra type standards too, but my main focus is probably rock and country rhythm guitar to serve as a setting for singing. My voice is in the Randy Travis range, so I generally transpose on the fly if I am reading music to bring it down to my range. I try to get in an hour or two each day. Sometimes I play/practice/accompany 3+ hours off and on in one day, but more likely I am closer to just an hour total before something else comes up.