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Except for the fact that they make your feet stink, so one can only imagine what digital does to your tone!
All Things Amplifier Are Ordained In The Good Book - Of Tone!
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Ah, we just like digital bashing... as we sit and type our replies on our computers and tablets (which are 100% analog and tube powered. Yeah, that's the ticket).
Gtrbldr
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Yes, of course it matters. The HDRX is a real tube amp, possessing all of the unique qualities tube amps possess. The digital copy possesses many of the desirable qualities a tube amp has, just not all of them.Meh...
A HDRX amp is a clone of "one of" Hendrix' amps. Sounds completely tasty.
It's still a clone though.
Does it therefore matter how it is cloned?
(Runs and hides).
Would you rather have 'all' or is 'many' sufficient? It's a personal choice thing.
Nah, I just like to have fun. I realize I'm not going to change anyone's mind over this stuff.
And yes, in a busy live mix, the Kemper is fine - I've often said that if I still played out, I'd use one for the convenience and light weight.
In a recording, however, a mix deals with things under something similar to a microscope. Tracks not only get projected to the front of the mix and highlighted for certain parts, parts are often stacked. The good adds up, the less-good also accumulates.
It's the same with microphones. A lower-end mic might sound fine for one part, but stack a few parts and the compromises seem to pile up - you wind up with a recorded sound with accumulated problems a mixer can't usually fix.
It's why the best recording engineers and studios have such expensive and/or highly selective mics; certain mics add up to great blends, other mics add up to a more compromised blend that for whatever doesn't 'sound like a record'.
In a recording, the most important things are:
1. The skill/talent of the player.
2. The quality of the instrument (including the amplifier if one's used)
3. The microphone - the transducer is hugely important, translating the sound waves into electronic stuff
4. The mic preamp amplifying the microphone's sound to the recording device.
These things give you the basic ingredients; like a gourmet meal, it's only as good as the ingredients.
When mixing, the most important things are:
1. The skill of the mixer.
2 (a). The monitors - the transducer is the translating device that takes the signal and sends it to the ears. This can include headphones, if it's a very accurate pair.
2 (b). The listening environment, the goal being to ensure that what's coming from the monitors isn't being significantly altered by the listening room's acoustics. I'd say this is equally important to the quality of the monitors, and some would say more important. In the case of headphones, you get what you get and don't have to worry about the room. But there are a few things you still have to be aware of mixing on cans - for example, one tends to over-reverb things, though reverb tails are easier to hear. I use both monitors and good headphones on every mix.
An analog console also sounds a bit different from a digital emulation of a console, but it seems to me that this is secondary. I prefer analog when available, but for reasons having to do with client changes and the necessity of recalling a mix under time pressure, I'm stuck mixing in the box. Not the best solution for me, but it is what it is. For now.
Lots of folks love the sound of tape vs digital. The drawback with tape is that the frequency response and dynamics limitations have to be compensated for with EQ and compression, and that's less the case with digital recording. But you need to start with good ingredients either way.
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Gtrbldr
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Way ahead of my limited experience, but I do agree with your analysis. There is no way I would record with the kemper (or any digital device for that matter) in a studio. Right tools for the right circumstances. In church with a track running, keys with drones or pads, bass another guitar and 3 vocals; I'm happy if you can hear me in the mix.
A digital device where I can control what is fed to the FOH actually helps: the techs cannot botch that and I pay a lot of attention to the way it fits in that mix.
But believe me that I prefer the sound of my Mesa TA over the profiles I made with my kemper of that amp
A digital device where I can control what is fed to the FOH actually helps: the techs cannot botch that and I pay a lot of attention to the way it fits in that mix.
But believe me that I prefer the sound of my Mesa TA over the profiles I made with my kemper of that amp
Like so many great Mesa amps, the TA is not given the props it deserves! Yes, they got great reviews when they came out, but people tend to forget, and like so much with guitar stuff, good gear becomes 'flavor of the month'.But believe me that I prefer the sound of my Mesa TA over the profiles I made with my kemper of that amp
I've owned, and/or recorded, lots and lots of amps over the past 32 years in the ad music business. Mesas are stellar recording amps. They're easier to work with in the studio than many other fine amps. They tend to not only sound good in most settings, Mesas have compression (or saturation, call it what you will) characteristics that need very little work to record well, and later sit in a mix.
Besides the good tone, that's one reason you see them in so many pro studios. Most years, I've had at least a couple of Mesas in my studio to record with, and at one point as many as 6 or 7 (including their phenomenal all-tube Bass 400+). Shoulda-woulda-coulda kept every one of them. Currently I have the Fillmore 50 and Lone Star 100. I like working with them.
There are other amps that also do this, of course. But there are lots of great amps that are a little trickier to work with in a recording environment for any number of reasons.
One thing I love about the HXDA is that it's as easy to record as my Mesas.
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(sssshhhhhh... I've played live twice in the last 3 weeks. Both times in front of about 1,000 people with 3,500 or so more watching online. Both times I used a modeler. Don't tell Les!)And so you should
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Which TA do you have?
Gtrbldr
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I have the smallest sibling, TA15. Does all the great brittish flavoured sounds I need: vox (top boost) for your slightly overdriven sounds and more vintage style marshall for a nuce crunch. Throw in a TS for a boost and you got yourself a lot of fun. Have been playing with mesas for the better part of my life; a rack with the mighty quad (dream theater in a box), an F50 combo, a stiletto and now this little fellow. Thats what happens when you get kids; digital and small amps. But I totally agree with Les on his assessment of the steong suits of a mesa. They always deliver, privided you set em up correctly
By the way: use greenbacks with that amp. Sound better than the black shadows mesa sells them with. IMO off course.
By the way: use greenbacks with that amp. Sound better than the black shadows mesa sells them with. IMO off course.
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Yes, I had one and was very fond of it. Didn't want to sell it, but @bodia had a once in a lifetime deal waiting on a Mark V so I had to sell it quickly. Sadly, you can't touch them now for anywhere close to what I sold mine for.
And, totally agree about it working well with the Greenback type speakers. My Private Jack was my second favorite speaker with it, behind only the Red Fang Alnico, which made the Vox and Tweed settings just KILL! I had a lot of fun with that amp, and for what I sold it for, would buy another one tomorrow! But now, we'll probably never see that price again and I'm not paying almost new price for one that's over 10 years old.
Alnus Rubra
Loving nature’s wonders
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I've said many times I'd use a modeler live for the ease of carry, since I've clearly outlived my physical usefulness on this planet (and probably any other planet that doesn't offer complete body regeneration, which, I dunno, I doubt we'll see).
Merely moving the amps I have a few feet in my own studio has been the cause of feeling gassed more often than I'd like to admit!
If you can still move amps around, more power to ya. If you can walk without discomfort, you have my blessing. Me? I'm totally f#cked.
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Wyzard
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We can sort this out for you
Some time later..........
Obi-wan Kenobi: " He's more Schefmachine now than Schefman."
You bet. It's great to have options.Aren't we blessed with that many great options, both digital and evolved tube ams alike?
dmatthews
Dave's not here
I've been diggin' the Kemper through my Avatar 2x12 with V30s.
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You know I'm just funnin' with you Les. I prefer amps any time I can turn them up a little. And, you know I totally agree with you that they STILL SOUND BETTER than modelers. I'd give anything to have a space as big as yours to play my amps in. I open them up to where they sound really good and my room quickly gets saturated so I can't turn them up much louder even if nobody is home, or it just overloads the room so badly it starts to not sound good. I have 3 2x12 cabs and have always preferred 2 speakers over 1. I've even sold of most of my 1x cabs... but I'm going to start using them more just to keep volume down to a reasonable level.
And, for years, I've looked around for 1x8 and 1x10 cabs, so that I can open up some of my lower watt amps like the ATMA in 5 watt mode, without cracking the foundation of my home. I've looked at smaller 1x8 and1x10 combos (Swart, Dr. Z, etc.) but have never pulled the trigger. I have a hard time paying $400 more for a used 1x8 5 watt Swart than I paid for my 50 watt Archon... I know... call it a personality flaw.
Like you, I prefer 2x12s, not because they're louder, or even fuller; I like the way the vibration of the two moving speakers on one baffle causes some movement in the baffle itself, and that causes little phase anomalies - I call that 'swirl', and for me, it's the sine qua non of guitar speaker cabinets and combos. I don't enjoy playing 1x12s nearly as much, and sold off all my 1x12 cabs long ago.
I think that natural swirl modulation sounds wonderful, and quite different from electronic signal modulation such as in a phase or chorus pedal.
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I found that when I had all 1x12s a few years back, I was almost always using two of them rather than just one. As you said, it just adds "more" to the sound. Swirl, Dimension, whatever you want to call it, it just works. No question about it.
But, to get the individual speakers to "do their thing" means the more speakers you have, the more power it takes to get them all moving and in the zone where they contribute to the "moving air" thing. I played the Archon the other night through my 1x12 with Emi Governor (V30 ish, with a less severe spike at 3.5K) and it sounded really great. No, not as big as the 2x's, but that was an advantage because I didn't want to shake the walls. Yes, I missed the added dimension to the tone, but overall it was very satisfying and when I asked Amy afterwards, she said it was noticeably less audible in the living room where she was. The funny thing, the poor girl is working her butt off lately (2 clerks out with Covid) and I switched to the 1x just so I wasn't blasting her while she watched TV, since she's so stressed. But I ended up really enjoying it with that cab.
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Please forgive this rather long exposition...
Being the complete recording nerd I am, I look at frequency response charts to help get a handle on what mics and other assorted gear I'm going to use to record a guitar amp. There are an awful lot of misconceptions.
You might be surprised to know that the V-30 actually has a fairly smooth 5 db bulge that starts at around 1.5 kHz and ends at 5 kHz. There's no real spike at all at 3-3.5k on the V30, the amplitude at those frequencies is actually slightly lower than the rest of the bulge (except for the narrow trough at 2.7k.
The curve's high point at 2.3 kHz is actually larger than the one at 3.5, and there's a trough beginning between 2.7 kHz and 3kHz that's about 2,5 db lower.
A 3 kHz peak of a few db is the frequency listeners find harsh (though compared to the rest of the curve, there's no singular peak at 3.5k on the V30), according to a variety of studies, where a peak at 1-2kHz is classically called a 'presence peak' aiding intelligibility, and 5kHz is generally thought of as 'sparkle'. More on this below.
The classic Celestion Blue has a very, very similar frequency response curve to the V30, but the difference is that the bulge starts at about 500Hz lower, below 1k. This may make the rest of the curve seem smoother and less harsh psychoacoustically. The brightness is just as pronounced, but the earlier start to the frequency rise might make the peak seem less abrupt or harsh. The Celestion Cream Alnico has about the same amplitude at 3.5k, but like the Blue, the rise in the curve starts sooner than the one for the V30, giving the impression of more smoothness, perhaps.
But most listeners think of the Blue as 'sparkly' or 'chimey' with the very same curve in the 3-3.5 kHz area, when they call the V30 'harsh'.
Oddly enough, the Jensen Blackbird Alnico - a wonderful sounding speaker with the right amp, used by Mesa in the California Tweed, for example (I have a set in my Fillmore's cab) has a very large 8db peak from 2.5 to 3.5kHz, yet the speaker doesn't ever sound harsh to me - with the Mesas,
Yet I don't like it at ALL with the DG30! The DG sounds SO much better with its cab and V30s, and even sounds better with the birch ply cab and V30s.
Why? I have absolutely no idea. The amplitude peak is narrower and more jagged than the one on the Celestions.
It's possible that a complicating factor might be is the effect of the speaker's distortion in certain frequency ranges, and/or the match with various amplifiers, the effect of enclosures, etc. Because in addition to a frequency response curve, the load to the amp in Ohms varies by frequency, the distortion varies by frequency, etc.
In any case, I think it's less about frequency response than the Blue and Cream giving the appearance of greater smoothness due to the lower onset of the frequency bulge, or perhaps the different magnets. The cabinet is also a significant factor.
I have a pair of V30s in the rear-ported pine cabinet made for the DG30. The speakers sound quite different from the pair of V30s in the closed back, birch ply PRS Big Mouth cab, or the very similar-sounding Mesa Recto cab.
Not surprisingly, each cab sounds its best in a recording with a different mic. I use a 57 plus a ribbon room mic with the HXDA; a ribbon and/or a Sennheiser 935 with the DG; I like the ribbon plus an i5 with the Mesa Lone Star, and the Fillmore/Blackbird combination works best to my taste with a JZ or Neumann condenser.
My bottom line is that the V30 sounds harsh - with SOME amps, and in SOME cabs, but not all. The Blackbirds work well in SOME cabs with SOME amps, but not all. Etc, etc. In other words, every combination of amp, cab and speaker is a system. Change one part of the system, and if it isn't right, the coherence of the system breaks down. The only way to know for sure? Experiment.
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