active or passive PUP's with the Archon 100?

Deedsoftommy

I ♡ chip's n' salsa.
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So I have active PUP's in my guitar. They're are the EMG 808 ones. The sound is "OK" but for as much gain as my Archon 100 has. Do I really need actives?!?!?!?! Would Passives feel more natural? ??????? Mind you that I'm a drummer of 21 year's and guitar player for 3 years. Which these first 3 years have just been about learning how to play more than the tone. Now enters the ARCHON 100!!! SO you know. :)

So passives or actives?
 
I may be a total cork sniffer but I associate active pickups with cheap guitars and solid state amps.
 
I may be a total cork sniffer but I associate active pickups with cheap guitars and solid state amps.

Then again, this one with active pickups (Alembics all seem to come with them) runs about $20,000...so...uh..."not so fast, buckaroo..."

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I may be a total cork sniffer but I associate active pickups with cheap guitars and solid state amps.
No, it's just a different tone. Also, (shudders involuntarily) at solid state amps.

Unless you're talking acoustic amps or something like a Quilter...I bet active pickups would do cleans amazingly well.
 
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I think active pick ups have their place. I recently borrowed my brothers Paul Allender signature with emgs and I managed to get some awesome balls out metal tones out of it. That said I'm definitely more of a passive guy.
 
The decision has nothing to do with the amount of gain your amp has and everything with how you want your amp to respond.

EMGs are typically tighter and more percussive than passives.
 
I'm a metal head and therefore I like high gain (distortion) guitar tone from whatever I am playing. I started out with affordable guitars and solid state amps. I went through the whole DIY hotrod guitar parts thing for years. After a while, I transitioned to high gain tube amps. The moment I realized that enough was enough came for me when I installed what I perceived to be the best active pickups on the market (SD Blackouts) into one of my H157's and then plugging that in to an Archon. Way too much! Now days I'm all about Alnico 2 magnets and low resistance passive pickups by default. I'm a big fan of the 57/08's and the new 85/15 family of pickups. (85/15, 58/15, 58/15LT) I like the idea of the distortion coming from the amp and not from the pickups (so to speak). What I currently seem to be doing is plugging in to different amps to get different tone the way I used to change pickups in guitars to get different tone. My PRS guitars... I don't usually feel the need to make any changes to them.
 
My PRS guitars... I don't usually feel the need to make any changes to them.

I don't play metal, yet I agree.

I did feel the need to make pickup changes with my early 90s (and even some later) PRS guitars. I preferred a more "vintage" PAF-style sound. In fact, one of the reasons I liked the PRS Soapbar pickup models so much was that they simply had a more vintage vibe.

But ever since the 57/08 and later series came out, haven't felt that way.

PRS just keeps moving forward and getting better. I like that!
 
I tried actives with my recto, but hated them. I much prefer passives with that and my Archon. Of course, there are MANY models of passives. I have used DiMarzio PAF-7, BKP Cold Sweats, PRS Tremonti, SC245 and SC250, DiMarzio CL/LF, Tom Anderson H3 and H1+, David Allen Hot Vintage Tele, and a few others with my Archon. They all sound great in their own way. I will say that the PRS SC250 bridge pup in a 25" Singlecut with stoptail is a bit thin for me with 0.010" in standard E tuning, but the Tremonti bridge (basically the same pup) on a Tremonti trem with 0.011' in Eb is badass. It keeps the heavy strings from getting too flubby, and has lots of tight, clean gain. So string gauge and tuning matter as well.
 
I tried actives with my recto, but hated them. I much prefer passives with that and my Archon. Of course, there are MANY models of passives. I have used DiMarzio PAF-7, BKP Cold Sweats, PRS Tremonti, SC245 and SC250, DiMarzio CL/LF, Tom Anderson H3 and H1+, David Allen Hot Vintage Tele, and a few others with my Archon. They all sound great in their own way. I will say that the PRS SC250 bridge pup in a 25" Singlecut with stoptail is a bit thin for me with 0.010" in standard E tuning, but the Tremonti bridge (basically the same pup) on a Tremonti trem with 0.011' in Eb is badass. It keeps the heavy strings from getting too flubby, and has lots of tight, clean gain. So string gauge and tuning matter as well.
True. Im using the EMG 808 actives. Seriously thinking on switching to passives.
 
20k. Oh my......... I'll pass on that! :)

I'd pass based on the weirdness of the upper horns alone! ;)

Alembics have never interested me personally, but they are first-class guitars in the opinion of certain players.

I've played quite a few of their basses, and they are very neutral sounding, the tone shaping takes place with onboard electronics more than with most basses.

It's my feeling that Alembic guitars are also for players who want to shape their sound palette mainly with the guitar's onboard electronics. Not a bad thing, just not for me.
 
I have to assume you haven't heard a Kemper. It will be my next amp.

I have heard the Kemper and the Axe FX. Both are amazing signal processors, and they do an awful lot of things well. The Kemper in particular is in my humble estimation, THE state of the art for modeling.

But they have their limitations. So do real amps, of course, mainly weight and how loud they have to be.

I have a sampled grand piano that takes about 35 gigs of data, probably more data than is found in an amp model. It will fool you if you hear it over studio monitors. It will amaze you. It will trick you in a recorded track, if it's put in the right artificial reverb room, especially a reverb that uses impulse responses to model microphones, the room sound, etc.

But play a real piano next to it, and even recorded, and coming through over studio monitors, there is simply no comparison. That's because a real piano is a more nuanced thing to play, and to listen to, than even the finest sampled instrument. Playing is a feel thing, and a hearing thing, and a how it excites the sound in a room that is picked up by mics thing, and all that.

In any case, they both sound great, but the results are a bit different. As with amps v Kempers.

Same with sampled drums. And here, let's face it, it's awfully hard to hear a difference between a sampled drum and a single real drum hit. But in a mix, the difference is easily heard, and very few bands actually record without a real person on drums. Why? Well, because we can hear the difference in a good mix. Part of it is the room, part of it is the limitation of the sampled medium, part is the feel the real player can put via nuanced approach to a real drum kit, and how that affects the emotion of the song, and the sound of the kit in the room, etc.

For me, the same is true of the Kemper and the Axe FX. They are great at their game, no doubt about it. But...a real amp feels and plays in a different way. I could easily justify owning one of these - it's less expensive than any of my real tube amps - I can't get fired up enough to do it. It's a great piece of gear, and yet it leaves me cold. But that's just my own take on it. Your mileage may vary, and obviously does, because we've both heard it and came away with different feelings.

Admittedly for me, the question often hinges on, "Is it inspiring to play through?" "Will I get excited about playing through it for years, the way I do with a good tube amp?"

I'll be interested in hearing your take on the Kemper when you get one, as I know you have very fine tube amps. I am curious not for the initial impression, but for what it's like to live with for a long period of time for you, i.e., will it stand the test of time?

I always cut important tracks with real amps.

When I have budget, I hire a real drummer, use a real bass, employ a real piano, book a larger studio to cut the drum tracks, etc. Often I don't have that kind of budget, since budgets for my kind of work have shrunk. But I think the stuff I cut with real drums sounds a hell of a lot better than stuff I cut with sampled instruments. A real B-3 simply slays a modeled one. A real piano matters.

However...

I doubt many of my clients can tell the difference, or care about it, but I can. As a musician and creator, I sometimes get depressed that what matters so much to me is unimportant to most folks.

In fact, thinking about it even now, I just want to throw in the towel, sit down in a corner, and have my guitar gently weep. :(
 
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I have heard the Kemper and the Axe FX. Both are amazing signal processors, and they do an awful lot of things well. The Kemper in particular is in my humble estimation, THE state of the art for modeling.

But they have their limitations. So do real amps, of course, mainly weight and how loud they have to be.

I have a sampled grand piano that takes about 35 gigs of data, probably more data than is found in an amp model. It will fool you if you hear it over studio monitors. It will amaze you. It will trick you in a recorded track, if it's put in the right artificial reverb room, especially a reverb that uses impulse responses to model microphones, the room sound, etc.

But play a real piano next to it, and even recorded, and coming through over studio monitors, there is simply no comparison. That's because a real piano is a more nuanced thing to play, and to listen to, than even the finest sampled instrument. Playing is a feel thing, and a hearing thing, and a how it excites the sound in a room that is picked up by mics thing, and all that.

In any case, they both sound great, but the results are a bit different. As with amps v Kempers.

Same with sampled drums. And here, let's face it, it's awfully hard to hear a difference between a sampled drum and a single real drum hit. But in a mix, the difference is easily heard, and very few bands actually record without a real person on drums. Why? Well, because we can hear the difference in a good mix. Part of it is the room, part of it is the limitation of the sampled medium, part is the feel the real player can put via nuanced approach to a real drum kit, and how that affects the emotion of the song, and the sound of the kit in the room, etc.

For me, the same is true of the Kemper and the Axe FX. They are great at their game, no doubt about it. But...a real amp feels and plays in a different way. I could easily justify owning one of these - it's less expensive than any of my real tube amps - I can't get fired up enough to do it. It's a great piece of gear, and yet it leaves me cold. But that's just my own take on it. Your mileage may vary, and obviously does, because we've both heard it and came away with different feelings.

Admittedly for me, the question often hinges on, "Is it inspiring to play through?" "Will I get excited about playing through it for years, the way I do with a good tube amp?"

I'll be interested in hearing your take on the Kemper when you get one, as I know you have very fine tube amps. I am curious not for the initial impression, but for what it's like to live with for a long period of time for you, i.e., will it stand the test of time?

I always cut important tracks with real amps.

When I have budget, I hire a real drummer, use a real bass, employ a real piano, book a larger studio to cut the drum tracks, etc. Often I don't have that kind of budget, since budgets for my kind of work have shrunk. But I think the stuff I cut with real drums sounds a hell of a lot better than stuff I cut with sampled instruments. A real B-3 simply slays a modeled one. A real piano matters.

However...

I doubt many of my clients can tell the difference, or care about it, but I can. As a musician and creator, I sometimes get depressed that what matters so much to me is unimportant to most folks.

In fact, thinking about it even now, I just want to throw in the towel, sit down in a corner, and have my guitar gently weep. :(

Les,
You have better ears than mine. I'm certainly not going to disagree that you can't hear the difference, but I wonder how significant that difference really is. I personally think the Kemper sounds amazing, but I also tend to like heavy, saturated tones. The Kemper crushes them. The one I heard had copied some great amp tones, and did so in an extremely convincing fashion.

A major amp dealer, who owns a slew of classic vintage amps including a few Dumbles, told me he did a blind test with his staff. He told me that he could hear a slight difference, but none of his staff could. From my limited experience with the Kemper, it is good enough to make up for any of its tone shortcomings, which I can't hear anyway, for its low weight and ability to emulate and store thousands of amps.

It's just a matter of time before one resides with me. Now, if I can just get Boogie to come and program it for me while he sets my AC programming. :confused:;)
 
He told me that he could hear a slight difference, but none of his staff could. From my limited experience with the Kemper, it is good enough to make up for any of its tone shortcomings, which I can't hear anyway, for its low weight and ability to emulate and store thousands of amps.

Yes, I'd agree -- most people will not hear a difference. Certain players like me may feel a difference, but it's not terribly difficult to get used to playing through, if you like what it does. On the other hand, that's what matters as much as the sound (for me).

I honestly feel that the Kemper excels on clean tones more than crushed tones, but I'm one of those "distortion texture" nerds. I honestly haven't heard any digital distortion that I really feel sounds more than about 90% there (this includes digital processors that emulate saturation and distortion that I have tried and even sometimes use, in the studio that aren't guitar-related).

I figure it this way: I've got three really nice amps. One does the Marshall thing (HXDA), one does the Tweed thing 'plus' (DG30), and one does sort of the Blackface thing 'plus' (Lone Star). And I have pedals. If I can't get the job done with these amps, I can't get it done at all.

Wait a second, I still need a Vox style amp. I do like that sound.

OK, after that, I'm done.

No, really, I promise. ;)
 
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