Acoustic processor for P22 piezo signal

[goat-n-gitter]

Fellow P22/P24/HB/P245 owners:
I am using an older Zoom A2 acoustic processor to try to liven up the acoustic sound of my P22 (along with a Lehle little dual switcher). Several people who have heard my system think the straight dry piezo signal sounds better than the Zoom's processed sound, and I can understand their point, although I still want something to help tame some of the "quack".
My question is do any of you have experience with the Fishman Aura pedal, or the D-Tar Mama Bear, or any of the other acoustic modelers on the PRS/Baggs piezo system, and would you recommend them? I'm not willing to spend the bucks or the space to add a AxeFX for its' impulse modeling (I know several pros including Alex Lifeson use AxeFx just for the acoustic processing).

Edit - I forgot to mention that I always split the processed piezo signal out directly to the PA

Thanks,
Tom

 

[Tosca]

I'v been using a Fishman aura pedal for the piezo only outputs on my HB2 & P24 straight out to PA as you describe and am very happy with the results.

 

[django49]

Love here for the Mama Bear. It gives a lot of sound options.....For piezo and other "acoustic" setups. And created by folks with good experience, starting with Rick Turner.

 

[shinksma]

Hmm, I've been using a Boss AC-2 for a couple of years, with and without piezo, to get a "fake acoustic" sound.

Now I have a couple of other suggestions to investigate!

EDIT: OK, there are a multitude of Fishman Aura pedal out there. Any particular ones being used that people like?

 

[rocguitar]

Here's what I use......a lot of flexibility, and sounds great through a PA!

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/bbe-acoustimax-sonic-maximizer-preamp-pedal

 

[_pete_]

I've tried just about everything and I'm really liking the LR Baggs Para DI. It makes piezos sound more like a real acoustic.

 

[Egads]

I've tried just about everything and I'm really liking the LR Baggs Para DI. It makes piezos sound more like a real acoustic.

This is what I use, too. I also have that BBE Acoustimax with my other rig. I like the BBE, but prefer the LR Baggs. If it had a mute switch, it would be perfect.

 

[_pete_]

This is what I use, too. I also have that BBE Acoustimax with my other rig. I like the BBE, but prefer the LR Baggs. If it had a mute switch, it would be perfect.

You could use an AB box in the fx loop as a mute switch.

 

[shinksma]

I guess I'm riding the coat-tails of the OP, but:

Please keep the suggestions and comparisons coming. I would like to improve my pseudo-acoustic sound from my piezo-pickup PRSi, and the more info I have the more informed a choice I can make. I like the "stomp-box" form of the Fishman Aura Sixteen, and the LR Baggs Para DI lacks 9VDC (or similar) power input - it seems to run only on battery or phantom power? Neither of which is viable in my pedalboard - I have everything 9VDC.

 

[goat-n-gitter]

I guess I'm riding the coat-tails of the OP, but:

Please keep the suggestions and comparisons coming. I would like to improve my pseudo-acoustic sound from my piezo-pickup PRSi, and the more info I have the more informed a choice I can make. I like the "stomp-box" form of the Fishman Aura Sixteen, and the LR Baggs Para DI lacks 9VDC (or similar) power input - it seems to run only on battery or phantom power? Neither of which is viable in my pedalboard - I have everything 9VDC.

No worries about riding my coat-tails, I really hoped to stimulate some discussion on this topic. I tend to look to YouTube for demo videos to learn about products, but very few demos of these processors pay any attention to their use on electric guitar piezo systems. They are all focused on acoustic-electrics.

I would love to see a shootout of acoustic processors specifically aimed at the electric guitar piezo user. (Hint, Hint, to any forum members who may have multiple devices).

Tom

 

[shinksma]

Well, I will find out next week about how good the Fishman Aura Spectrum is: I ordered one from Sweetwater just now. I will be very curious how well it works with both of my acoustic guitars (one a PRS SE Angelus with LR Baggs piezo, the other a Norman with a Fishman piezo installed aftermarket) and both of my electrics with piezo (the Spruce HB and the P24).

I will report when I have something useful to say...

 

[tiboy]

Are you guys running the piezo guitar jack cable from the guitar into the pedal into a PA or something different?

 

[shinksma]

Are you guys running the piezo guitar jack cable from the guitar into the pedal into a PA or something different?

I typically go straight into a PA when gigging. At home I will go into a regular guitar amp like my Archon, or my PA amp.

EDIT: and I run just a single cable out of my guitar from the mix jack, and swap pickup type on the guitar as required for how I'm processing and/or where I'm sending the signal.

 

[aristotle]

In a band situation, I run the piezo output directly into the PA, and the magnetic output through my pedal board and into my amp. Lots of songs (more than I'd have guessed) benefit from a touch of the piezo output through the mains. And for the 3 or 4 songs in our typical set list that require an acoustic, it's piezo only through the mains, and I haven't had a need to jazz it up.

At home though, I have had absolutely fantastic results running through my Swart stereo rig. Separate pedal chains for the piezo and the magnetic gives endless possibilities. One of these days I'm going to try to gig with it (it's only 5 watts per side, but it's way louder than you'd think.) I've tried acoustic pedals with the P22, but to be honest, for my tastes, the piezo output of the P22 through an amp with really nice (and deep) cleans doesn't need additional "acoustic processing".

 

[_pete_]

Are you guys running the piezo guitar jack cable from the guitar into the pedal into a PA or something different?

Mine runs wirelessly to a Baggs Para DI (with a GSP1101 in it's fx loop) to an EV powered monitor for stage monitoring. The XLR out of the Baggs goes to the PA.

 

[tiboy]

Thanks guys.

 

[CVS]

I learned quite a bit from this post. Thanks for all the info. Had no idea that there were acoustic processors on the market and that you can use them with a piezo set up.

 

[goat-n-gitter]

I pretty much exclusively route my piezo output to the PA. I rarely just use the mix jack and blend the piezo through my guitar amp. I use a lot of acoustic along with electric in my original music, and I pretty much exclusively mic my acoustics for recordings. For band use however, I try to replicate the mic'ed acoustic tone as well as possible from my P22, hence the Zoom A2 modeling processor (I run the D-28 model with about 50% mix). It also lets me add a touch of compression and reverb without having to use multiple boxes, and I have just one preset that I leave up on the Zoom. The modeled sound from this box is not necessarily perfect, hence my endless quest for something better.
I also use a Lehle Little Dual switcher instead of the mini toggle on the guitar, as I find a footswitch much more convenient for switching on the fly, and the Lehle also takes the place of needing a direct box before the PA (it has a balanced out on one channel) and gives a ground lift to reduce hum.

I've been fiddling with solidbodies w/piezos for a few years now, I started by adding a Fishman Powerbridge/Powerchip to a frankensteined Epiphone (I still have this as backup), and used one of the nicer import model Parkers for a while. The PRS/Baggs system is definitely the best I've used.

Tom

 

[shinksma]

I pretty much exclusively route my piezo output to the PA. I rarely just use the mix jack and blend the piezo through my guitar amp. I use a lot of acoustic along with electric in my original music, and I pretty much exclusively mic my acoustics for recordings. For band use however, I try to replicate the mic'ed acoustic tone as well as possible from my P22, hence the Zoom A2 modeling processor (I run the D-28 model with about 50% mix). It also lets me add a touch of compression and reverb without having to use multiple boxes, and I have just one preset that I leave up on the Zoom. The modeled sound from this box is not necessarily perfect, hence my endless quest for something better.
I also use a Lehle Little Dual switcher instead of the mini toggle on the guitar, as I find a footswitch much more convenient for switching on the fly, and the Lehle also takes the place of needing a direct box before the PA (it has a balanced out on one channel) and gives a ground lift to reduce hum.

I've been fiddling with solidbodies w/piezos for a few years now, I started by adding a Fishman Powerbridge/Powerchip to a frankensteined Epiphone (I still have this as backup), and used one of the nicer import model Parkers for a while. The PRS/Baggs system is definitely the best I've used.

Tom

After I've experimented with the piezo into Fishman Aura for a while, I might consider running the piezo separate from the mag outputs, but that would mean I need another input into the PA, and right now we max out the board when we play a certain venue (we have a regular guest fiddler there). Still, I suppose I could convince the band I should have his input for the times he doesn't play with us...hmmm...how would I route the signals through my programmable loop switcher so I have control over what goes where?...I need to look into the Lehle Little Dual Switcher you mention...hmmm...some further thought will be required...

(When there are a lot of ellipses in my posts, trouble is brewing...) (Look, more ellipses!)

 

[shinksma]

So I got my Fishman Aura Spectrum yesterday, and had a chance to run it through its paces, compared to a "naked" P24 piezo signal and the piezo through a Boss AC-2 and EQ pedals, all into my PA.

The Spectrum comes with a bucketload of presets, and I did not go through all of them. After a while all of them sounded wrong and then all of them sounded right, rinse & repeat - that's what happens when you listen over and over, trying to dial in a sound via the selections.

Anyway, I found a couple of the presets that sounded pretty good - certainly far more "natural acoustic guitar" than the piezo alone or through the AC-2 + EQ. But I want to explore more, little by little, to see if any other particular one sounds "better" - or perhaps sounds "better for live gigging" (which isn't always the most accurate imaging of a miked acoustic guitar!). The presets that worked well were in the Dreadnaught and Jumbo banks.

I found I liked the sound best with mix about 60% to 70% "image", 40%-30% "dry". Although 100% image was quite tolerable, and perhaps preferable for simple strumming.

I did not get a chance to run any other guitars through the pedal yet. Maybe tomorrow night.

I look forward to band practice later this week, where I can demonstrate my new and improved (with lemon scent!) pseudo-acoustic sound to the rest of the band.