A New Amp Stand Experiment On Its Way

OK, back to the amp stand for a bit...

It arrived today. The top and bottom plates are made of a high density polymer plastic, designed not to be able to twist or deform (said to have high modulus). I couldn't twist them or bend them at all. The tubes themselves are metal, and they slide nicely into the special rubber sockets - you don't have to use large amounts of force to get them fully in. For tilting the stand, there are well-made plastic extension plugs that slide into the tubes, and click into place with a good push. You add these to one or both ends of the front or back tubes to achieve a forward or backward tilt. Despite the weight of my cab (about 60 pounds, the stand is rated to 100 pounds) the cab doesn't slide on the stand, and the rubber cushions that come into contact with the cab seem just the right consistency to hold a cab in place. There are also rubber cushions on the bottom for hard floors (my room is carpeted).

I decided to put my Mesa Rectifier 212 cab on the stand and use the shorter extensions to tilt the cab slightly, so that the front edge of the cab is 5.5" off the floor, and so that the speakers aim a bit more toward me. The stand is 17" wide, the perfect size to clear between the metal slots attached to the cab to hold its casters, and the cab itself extends a little over 6 inches on either side of the stand. The balance seems just fine, however, it isn't necessary to put the stand together with a tilt, and there are several tilt angles that can be created.

Here's a shot of my studio with the cab on the stand. Makes for a clean-looking setup:



Next to come: Tone report!
 
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As promised, here's my thinking about this stand. I hope this information is helpful.

First, understand that I bought it to solve a few specific problems:

Before I installed this thing, recording at what I consider reasonable recording volumes with the master up over 12:00, caused sympathetic vibrations to occur in the room. These took the form of buzzing in the heating and cooling ducting and the registers; rattling in various parts of the room, rattles in the ceiling grid, and a general muddiness in the lower midrange and bass. All of these problems showed up on recordings in weird and unwanted ways.

This muddiness and rattling was worse on the neck pickup than the treble pickup. I had already solved the problem of light bulbs rattling by replacing the standard bulbs with LED bulbs.

Here's what I tried before:

I had tried raising the stand onto a bench about a foot off the floor, and putting auralex speaker isolator foam between the bench and the cab. While this was an improvement, it wasn't all that stable, and it wasn't a complete improvement. There were still vibrations coming through to the floor via the bench itself, despite the use of the auralex foam. So yes, better, but not a real solution.

I tried putting the cabs on a plywood shelf the size of the amp, isolated from the floor with Auralex "Platfoam." This was functionally identical to a Gramma. And, there was some improvement. The Gramma I tried also improved the situation about the same amount. This hipped me to the fact that decoupling the cab from the floor was going to be a good solution.

What wasn't quite as desirable (for me) was that the Gramma doesn't really raise the cab off the floor enough to fully solve half space bass reinforcement, or offer a tilt of the cab to aim the speaker away from the floor. But it's an improvement over most of what's out there, that's for sure. My other issue with the Gramma is that I have clients come to the studio, and it certainly doesn't add to the looks of things. But that's not an issue for most players of course.

Of course, I've also tried the usual chairs, metal amp stands, etc. These often help with the low end, but at the same time, they do not decouple the cab from the floor, so the vibration issue still exists.

And now on to whether this new product actually works as advertised:

First of all, it's not really noticeable under the cab, as you can see from the picture. So there's nothing to really discuss about that. I have to get down close to the floor to even see it. For me, that's a plus. It retains a professional and clean look.

Playing through the cab for a good length of time, I haven't found that it has slipped from where I put it.

In terms of performance, there is no buzzing/rattling of the HVAC or ceiling supports that I can hear, even with the Master turned up to volumes louder than record or play at. I didn't crank the Master all the way (my amp is 50 watts, and I value my hearing). The light fixtures are not rattling, either. I stood right next to an HVAC grill that was giving me a lot of trouble, and it was quiet.

The amount of mud is greatly reduced. Even with the amp up loud, low notes on the neck pickup are coming through clearly without shaking the room. The small angle (guessing maybe 6 or so degrees) I set it up with is enough to project the midrange and highs a little more toward my ears, but I was pretty conservative about my angle so that everything would be very stable, so as a result, I wouldn't expect a huge difference.

I didn't have a Gramma on hand to compare it with. I imagine the comparison would be interesting. However, just going on my recollection of problems solved in the room, the combination of the isolation from vibration, the slight tilt, and the greater distance from the floor make this thing more effective than the Gramma. And as I said, it certainly looks more the business.

Bottom line:

Sometimes the absence of bad sound is more important than something like a new pedal to make one's tone better. This is one of those kinds of products. It improves your tone by not letting your room screw it up.

If you record, there are times you want to use the bass reinforcement of a cab on the floor, and might be willing to live with the issues this causes in the name of getting a particular sound. Well no problem, just take the cab off the stand.

But when you want to avoid the problems inherent in putting a cab on the floor (for me, that would be most of the time), this is a great product that works very, very well. So if you're serious about your recording, just go buy one. It works.

At $89 street, it's within five bucks of the price of an Auralex Great Gramma, and I honestly think it works better.
 
prscat33511 said:
Looks cool
I use a $20 MF stand - works for me
Click to expand...

Works fine for a lot of people, of course.

I've had folding stands, and they didn't solve my specific studio problems, so I needed to take things to a different level. Then again, I make my living in the recording studio. So it makes sense for me to pursue every avenue I can to solve audio problems and improve my recordings!
 
Les,
You got a link to where one might purchase these stands? Also, Are there multiple sizes? If there is only one size, Can you please list the size?


Sorry, If I missed the info somewhere........



Edit: What does "Installing" entail? I am pretty damn lazy ya know :biggrin:
 
Wow, that looks really sharp Les. The room my amp is in has drop ceiling... talk about rattle. Luckily I'll be out of here soon, but I could see this being helpful in a LOT of places, especially houses that weren't built with guitar amps in mind. So I'll keep this one in mind. For that price, why not?
 
markie said:
Les,
You got a link to where one might purchase these stands? Also, Are there multiple sizes? If there is only one size, Can you please list the size?


Sorry, If I missed the info somewhere........



Edit: What does "Installing" entail? I am pretty damn lazy ya know :biggrin:
Click to expand...

Here's the link to where I bought the stand:

http://vintageking.com/index.php/catalog/product/view/id/9631/

Size is 17" wide and 9" deep. No problem with my 212 Mesa cab. Will also work with a 112, and a 412 as long as it's under 100 pounds. They make smaller sizes for studio monitors and subwoofers. The full info is here:

http://www.isoacoustics.com/isol8r430_guitar_amp_musical_instruments.php

"Installation"

To use the stand, you have to put it together. Here's what that entails:

There is a top and a bottom. There are six rubber sockets on the bottom, and six rubber sockets on the top. There are six small metal tubes. You stick the metal tubes in the sockets on the bottom, and then put the top on so that its sockets mate with the tubes. The extension plugs that lengthen the tubes a little are optional and used for tilt.

It takes about as long to put this thing together as it does to open the box and pull the parts out. No tools are needed. Takes about two minutes if you are slow.

The remainder of the procedure is that you take the assembled thing (very light weight by the way) and put it on the floor. Then you simply sit your amp on top (I tried to put mine on so that the stand was right in the middle of the bottom of the cab, and my first try was a little off, so I tried it again and got it right). This fussing took about 30 seconds.

That's all you have to do. It's so simple even I could do it. ;)
 
andy474x said:
Wow, that looks really sharp Les. The room my amp is in has drop ceiling... talk about rattle
Click to expand...

If you look at my studio pic, the ceiling is also a drop ceiling. The rattle was a BIG (and constant) problem. It is pretty much solved now.

I haven't tried diming everything on the amp, so it's possible I could make something rattle, but at levels I play and record at, no problems have been noted.

EDIT NOTE: Today I dimed everything just to see and noticed some vibration noise in one of my heating ducts. But it was insanely loud (for me, YMMV). Also it was FAR less than I experienced at lower volumes in the past.

I think this is simply due to the sheer volume, and it only happened on the E-string's B note. So it's a resonance of some kind. Dialing the amp back a hair solved it.
 
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In other news about this stuff...

I contacted the manufacturer of these stands to say how much I like them. The designer got back to me and said that at NAMM in January they are introducing a larger stand made of aluminum for 4x12 cabs and full stacks! That oughta be cool, and I'll have to get one for those occasions when someone comes in with a 4x12.

If you're running a 4 x 12 half stack or stack, and are interested in this concept, you might want to wait until January and get the one made to do that job.

I spent a few hours today working with my pedalboard and rig, to dial in everything for this new setup. Obviously, when there are fewer issues relating to the room, you have more and better options with the amp, and you might need to mess with things (which, OK, is one of my favorite things to do, so there's that!). This product gives me options, and I really can hear what's going on better.

I'll record some clips this week. I worked all weekend, and have a couple of days coming up where I can do some recording "just for me."
 
Les, Thanks for the detailed review. Although we have no problem in my music room with vibrations, when I go into my master bath, and the bass player is playing, I can hear my hvac rattling in the attic. His bass cab is on an Auralex Gramma. I don't know if it's the volume, or if this might be minimized with a Isolation stand. I'll have to look into trying one.
 
pondsnorkeler said:
Les, Thanks for the detailed review. Although we have no problem in my music room with vibrations, when I go into my master bath, and the bass player is playing, I can hear my hvac rattling in the attic. His bass cab is on an Auralex Gramma. I don't know if it's the volume, or if this might be minimized with a Isolation stand. I'll have to look into trying one.
Click to expand...

Might be a combination of things. You can have a resonant frequency on a note or two that is going to be exacerbated via high volume. There are still room modes, and basses tend to exaggerate this. Or it might be that the Gramma isn't quite as effective.

What I can say positively is that I'm hearing a much clearer picture of what's coming out of my speakers - aside from issues of room rattling, etc. Much clearer. No mud.

So for me, miking the cab, dialing in amp and effect tones, etc., is proving simpler and more effective.
 
Thanks for the news on the new one - I have a 4x12 with a PRS 2x12 on top of it, so that sounds like the ticket. And I'll get my hockey pucks back!
 
alantig said:
Not anymore. The leopards solved the monkey issue.
Click to expand...

Leopards are considered an endangered species, and there are fewer than 250,000 individuals on the planet. On the other hand, monkeys are estimated to number about 300 million.

The monkeys are winning.

And in a greater sense, since leopards are going extinct largely because of encroaching human populations, it's fair to say that the monkeys' uncles have solved the leopard issue. ;)

Bugs are a mere annoyance. But monkeys have always freaked me out.

However, the band called The Monkees never freaked me out. They merely disappointed me.

I've never thought about leopards at all. But I've reached the brain-stage where cougars are starting to appear rather attractive...
 
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