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Draconomics

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Well that's the whole problem isn't it? When ANY dissenting video comes out, it gets taken down. When any groups of doctors come together and release another video, it gets taken down too and they all get branded as lunatic extremists. You cannot so much as post a documented fact challenging the mainstream narrative, or even post a dissenting OPINION on Facebook without it getting flagged or "fact checked" right before the post gets censored or deleted and you spend 30 days in Facebook jail. So, there's no crime if all the evidence is erased, right? Is that the world we live in? Is it 1936 Germany again? Do what you are told. Believe what you are told to believe, never ask questions and never challenge government which is your new almighty god.
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Mainstream science is mainstream for a reason: it works. Science has a history of back and forth disagreements with differing, sometimes wildly differing, opinions. There was a time when Einstein's relativity theories were dissenting from mainstream opinion, yet they are accepted today. They work when tested and hold up to scrutiny. Science does not care about political affiliation or personal philosophies/prejudices. Truth will be revealed. Since you mentioned it, Facebook has been a cesspool of disinformation for YEARS. Nobody has bothered censoring anyone there till recently, and for a very good reason: because this disinformation is killing people. Same with youtube, people have an incredible amount of freedom to express their views, the fact you can have white nationalists be allowed to organize rallies without being removed should be evidence enough. It might not be perfect, but comparing the current state of the country to 1936 Germany is rich. I do concede, there are such things as surveillance programs we are not privy to knowledge of, those things do exist. Also, Government is not some "god" to me, you know nothing about my personal views on that.

Okay, how about this. How many hours of C-Span do you watch, or do you (any of you reading) swallow hook, line & sinker everything that CNN tells you? How about watching DOCTOR RAND PAUL relentlessly exposing "Doctor" Fauci's complete nonsense for what it is. Complete B.S. They can't delete congressional hearings as it is by law public record. Start there and then go see how many of these videos you can still find being circulated through underground channels.

How many hours? Zero. I don't watch mainstream news outlets, in fact I don't watch any television programming. As for Rand Paul, he may be a doctor, but the evidence does not support his opinions. He is wrong, plain and simple. He is wrong about a great many things honestly. Let's also not forget Dr. Paul specializes in LASIK eye surgery and corneal transplants, not virology. Why did you omit that little fact I ponder? That sounds awful...disingenuous. Look, I'm not saying by that statement Fauci is perfectly correct on everything, but I feel like he has been made a scapegoat, for the most part, undeservedly.
 
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Draconomics

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Sir David Attenborough presents: Wisdom of Clashcityrocker - "See the problem with your lies, damn lies and statistics is you really can't test for Covid. It could be the flu it could be a cold. Just because hospitals started putting down everything under the sun as covid doesn't mean it is. I thought you said trust the science? Oops it changed we really didn't know what we we're talking about. Get the vax it's "safe and effective" Well look at this https://vaxpain.us/"

What is the problem with my statistics exactly? Oh, they are lies. I see. So, that includes my influenza stats as well, eh? You don't seem to have a problem with flu numbers when it benefits your argument. As to your website, did you notice the little text at the bottom that says "adverse effects not necessarily caused by vaccines"? Still not passing our reading comprehension are we or vetting our sources. Also, VAERS is not scientific. People can go on there and lodge a report of how they feel post vaccination, I know because I did one too, but nothing says that those adverse effect were caused by the vaccine. Like @bodia said, its basically Yelp.

I have a theory: You are clearly a disinformation agent paid for by "The Man" to make the people who are telling us the truth of the "scamdemic" look like uneducated fools who cant figure 5 over 0. Prove me wrong. Until then, you are workin' for the Man and nothing will change my mind. What's that you say? I have no evidence? Well, that isn't stopping you, is it, so why can't I do the same? Who needs facts, am I right?
 

Clashcityrocker

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Sir David Attenborough presents: Wisdom of Clashcityrocker - "See the problem with your lies, damn lies and statistics is you really can't test for Covid. It could be the flu it could be a cold. Just because hospitals started putting down everything under the sun as covid doesn't mean it is. I thought you said trust the science? Oops it changed we really didn't know what we we're talking about. Get the vax it's "safe and effective" Well look at this https://vaxpain.us/"

What is the problem with my statistics exactly? Oh, they are lies. I see. So, that includes my influenza stats as well, eh? You don't seem to have a problem with flu numbers when it benefits your argument. As to your website, did you notice the little text at the bottom that says "adverse effects not necessarily caused by vaccines"? Still not passing our reading comprehension are we or vetting our sources. Also, VAERS is not scientific. People can go on there and lodge a report of how they feel post vaccination, I know because I did one too, but nothing says that those adverse effect were caused by the vaccine. Like @bodia said, its basically Yelp.

I have a theory: You are clearly a disinformation agent paid for by "The Man" to make the people who are telling us the truth of the "scamdemic" look like uneducated fools who cant figure 5 over 0. Prove me wrong. Until then, you are workin' for the Man and nothing will change my mind. What's that you say? I have no evidence? Well, that isn't stopping you, is it, so why can't I do the same? Who needs facts, am I right?
Well you and others are parroting the media on this. No I'm just a real dude that cares about people and society. When I see bs I call it out.
 

HANGAR18

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Mainstream science is mainstream for a reason: it works. Science has a history of back and forth disagreements with differing, sometimes wildly differing, opinions. There was a time when Einstein's relativity theories were dissenting from mainstream opinion, yet they are accepted today. They work when tested and hold up to scrutiny. Science does not care about political affiliation or personal philosophies/prejudices. Truth will be revealed.
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Just remember that there are always TWO versions of science.
Version #1 can land a probe on a speeding comet or use a planet's gravity to slingshot a Voyager probe out of the solar system.
Version #2 happens when scientists realize they need money in order to practice their craft, that they have no way to generate money on their own, and then resort to groveling before the government looking for grants so that they remain in their chosen career field. But that Senator (or whoever) is going to want something in return... ie You write me a scientific paper supporting my agenda and in return I'll sign off on your grant.

Version #1 is real science.
Version #2 is junk science.

ps Bill Nye "The Science Guy" is an actor. Not a scientist.
 

Drew

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Well you and others are parroting the media on this. No I'm just a real dude that cares about people and society. When I see bs I call it out.

I think it makes you feel better to think that but really, you are parroting the OTHER media on this. You are pretty much reciting the right wing media covid playbook word for word. You are far from the individual thinker you claim to be.
 

Clashcityrocker

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I think it makes you feel better to think that but really, you are parroting the OTHER media on this. You are pretty much reciting the right wing media covid playbook word for word. You are far from the individual thinker you claim to be.
Nope. Actually Trump was all for the vaccine.
 

Ovibos

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Just remember that there are always TWO versions of science.
Version #1 can land a probe on a speeding comet or use a planet's gravity to slingshot a Voyager probe out of the solar system.
Version #2 happens when scientists realize they need money in order to practice their craft, that they have no way to generate money on their own, and then resort to groveling before the government looking for grants so that they remain in their chosen career field. But that Senator (or whoever) is going to want something in return... ie You write me a scientific paper supporting my agenda and in return I'll sign off on your grant.

Version #1 is real science.
Version #2 is junk science.

ps Bill Nye "The Science Guy" is an actor. Not a scientist.
As someone married to a research scientist who teaches and has a grant-supported lab at a top university I can assure you that this is not at all how it works.
 

DreamTheaterRules

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Ok, did you ride the short bus to school? This is actually SOME of the vaccine injured-killed. Not all get reported. There is a whistleblower reporting she saw 45,000 deaths reported.
Sorry, I thought I could just mess with you back and not get pissed, but now you’re insulting a friend and making offensive remarks as well. 45K deaths from the vaccine? You’ve completely lost your mind. Time for the “moron button!” :mad:
 

dmatthews

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Sorry, I thought I could just mess with you back and not get pissed, but now you’re insulting a friend and making offensive remarks as well. 45K deaths from the vaccine? You’ve completely lost your mind. Time for the “moron button!” :mad:
Some people are stupid, but moron that later.
 

DreamTheaterRules

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Ok, did you ride the short bus to school? This is actually SOME of the vaccine injured-killed. Not all get reported. There is a whistleblower reporting she saw 45,000 deaths reported.
P.S. and I warned you that if you kept this up, you were going to get called a moron. I just thought I’d have to be the one to do it. :p
 

Draconomics

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Just remember that there are always TWO versions of science.
Version #1 can land a probe on a speeding comet or use a planet's gravity to slingshot a Voyager probe out of the solar system.
Version #2 happens when scientists realize they need money in order to practice their craft, that they have no way to generate money on their own, and then resort to groveling before the government looking for grants so that they remain in their chosen career field. But that Senator (or whoever) is going to want something in return... ie You write me a scientific paper supporting my agenda and in return I'll sign off on your grant.

Version #1 is real science.
Version #2 is junk science.

ps Bill Nye "The Science Guy" is an actor. Not a scientist.

Respectfully, this is pretty much false. There are instances where a company say....Phillip Morris, would contract an "independent researcher" to make a study demonstrating how nicotine has no addictive qualities. There could be a doctor on the report to give it authenticity. However, the astute can tell its a smokescreen by a company. Scientists brought companies like them to their knees with good, thorough research that held up to scrutiny. These tactics do not work anymore for big tobacco, so they have resorted to adverts that highlight their "charitable contributions".

What you are doing is committing a "poisoning the well" fallacy. You use the term "scientists" in a general sense, thus giving the air of instigating paranoia of all of them. Just because there might be an instance of a doctor doing a shady thing on behest of a corporation does not equate " scientists are prostituting themselves for money". This is not how it works at all, not in the least.

Also, Bill Nye is a science ambassador. He is not really a scientist in the formal sense, but he holds a degree in mechanical engineering (engineering is not really considered a scientific field). What's your point though? This is a bit of a strawman fallacy. Nobody presented Bill Nye as an authority on science, is not considered one, yet you present him anyway. How about we discuss Stephen Hawking, or Carl Sagan? How about Michio Kaku, who is also one I consider a science ambassador, but he has degrees in physics and teaches. Of course, using them as examples is not conducive to your argument, which essentially brings us to the inevitable conclusion: you do not have an argument.
 
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HANGAR18

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What you are doing is committing a "poisoning the well" fallacy. You use the term "scientists" in a general sense, thus giving the air of instigating paranoia of all of them. Just because there might be an instance of a doctor doing a shady thing on behest of a corporation does not equate " scientists are prostituting themselves for money". This is not how it works at all, not in the least.

Just fyi... stating that nothing Rand Paul has to say about Fauci is valid because he is not the right kind of doctor is also a fallacy. (Attacking someone's credentials instead of attacking what they have to say.) My wife, the high school English teacher with two master's degrees told me the name/category of fallacy that is called but I forgot.

Let's forget the actor for a minute and let's pick on Al Gore for a minute instead. Dupont's patent on Freon 12 is about to expire and consumers will be able to buy generic equivalents for their home and automotive AC applications dirt cheap and Dupont won't be able to make a lot of money on it anymore. So Dupont pays off Senator Gore to get it declared "bad for the environment" via paid off scientists with their "scientific" papers, and then they get it made illegal so that everyone is forced to buy a different Dupont refrigerant gas so that Dupont can keep rolling in the big bucks. Not only did Al Gore NOT invent the Internet, he wasn't even the first one to leverage the ol' climate change scam for furthering a political agenda. The governments large and small have been using that scam for well over 100 years and all that man made climate change nonsense coming from "climate scientists" is the same junk science I'm talking about. Yes, the planet is getting hotter. All the planets are. The carbon tax is just another commie wealth distribution scheme pushed by the donkey jockeys.
 

Drew

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Also, Bill Nye is a science ambassador. He is not really a scientist in the formal sense, but he holds a degree in mechanical engineering (engineering is not really considered a scientific field).

Engineering IS a scientific field, but considered applied science. Meaning... other people figure the stuff out and engineers put it to use. There is a LOT of college course overlap between an engineering degree and one of the science degrees. Several semesters of calculus, chemistry, physics, etc. Basically, Bill Nye knows his stuff.
 

AP515

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Engineering IS a scientific field, but considered applied science. Meaning... other people figure the stuff out and engineers put it to use. There is a LOT of college course overlap between an engineering degree and one of the science degrees. Several semesters of calculus, chemistry, physics, etc. Basically, Bill Nye knows his stuff.
Your point is valid, and as an Engineer I take pride in saying I test and improve things, but while I hold a degree in "the sciences", it is a degree in mechanical engineering and in the sense that @Draconomics is using the term, I am not a scientist. I do make hypotheses and test them for success or failure. I just do it on already discovered principles. As you say, I am not discovering the new stuff, I am making use of the stuff already discovered. We could debate which is more important.

As to the rest of the continuing topic, both sides have valid points. Both sides are so entrenched in their dogma that they are not going to budge. Yes, the science of the new vaccines is real and they are trying to produce something that benefits society, I just don't happen to believe their MRNA manipulation is safe. Time will tell.

On the other side, yes scientists can be bought, and produce "evidence" to support their side of the story that will not hold up to scrutiny. A few years back it was discovered that scientists in England and also here, were manipulating data in the climate change struggle. While admitting they manipulated data, they now say you must manipulate it in order to present reality. It's preposterous, but it's what they have to do to make the data fit their models. It is a politically motivated outcome, not a scientific one. I'm not denying the planet is warming. The rate, and the severity are certainly in question. Since the number fudging debacle they now just automatically adjust the numbers by a couple degrees as a matter of process. In order to understand why, follow the money. They are funded by government grants and to question the results means no funding. It isn't that they are intentionally being dishonest. They are following everyone else in their industry. How many scientists of their day tried to make the geocentric model of the solar system work just because it was politically correct? It took Copernicus to correct it.
 
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