A different perspective on 57/08 pickups now being offered

[azfarrier]

Well I'm really disappointed in PRS. I purchased a limited run 1957/2008 245 with the new "only available in these guitars" 57/08 pickups when they first came out. According to the advertising hype at the time these pickups would "NEVER" be available for sale and only available in these limited run guitars. Well it didn't take too long before, while not being for sale, they were offered in other models. That was bad enough that PRS had told everyone that they would only be available in that limited edition.

Now I see that PRS is doing what they said they would NEVER do and that is offer them for sale as an aftermarket pickup. Don't get me wrong. I still feel these pickups are outstanding. I know they have the right to sell these pickups if they choose. I just feel for those of us that bought one of the original limited release guitars we got hosed. There's no doubt we paid a little more for the guitar than we probably should have but with the thought of it being such a limited release that it would probably increase in value over time should we ever decide to sell it.

At this point I will never believe any of the hype coming out of Paul's mouth again. While I do have three PRS guitars I can honestly say there probably won't be another one added due to the fact I'm kind of an old school guy and I don't like being lied to. And I'm sure there will be some that will bristle at that comment and come to Pauls defense with all sorts of justifications of his actions but it still comes down to he said "never" and it's not never so yes he lied.

 

[charliefrench]

Hello and welcome. I understand your disappointment but I don't think "being lied to" is appropriate. It appears for the longest time Paul has steadfastly refused to offer these pickups for sale separately and has only recently relented following years of peer pressure within the company. He has changed his mind for sure but as for intentionally lying, no I don't believe he would ever do that. Although yes, 'Limited' should mean what it says. I get it. A case for saying never say never?

 

[drdoom8793]

 

[bodia]

Pie?

 

[Stitch72]

On the plus side, if you consistently restrict your purchases to companies that never lie or change their minds about products, your bank account will be extremely healthy.

 

[rugerpc]

Buying anything, whether it is a guitar or a car or a painting, etc., on the speculation that it is going to be rare and coveted in the future is always a risk. All you have to go on is the hype at the time. The future holds unforseen circumstances. Projections and plans change and adapt.

You have a guitar that you love with pickups that you love. That tells me that you aren't looking to sell it any time soon. So what is the problem? If you hold something because you want to keep it and use it, as opposed to holding for a future speculative sale, the value of an object is meaningless, that is except for the case of wanting to replace it if it were lost, stolen or broken beyond repair.

As I see it, Paul has done you a huge service by making the pups more widely available. If something happened to your guitar and you wanted to replace it or repair it, the increased availability of the pup has decreased your costs to do so. If the pups had stayed rare, you might not even be able to afford to repair your own guitar.

So, this sour grapes about the relative value of a guitar you have enjoyed for 8 years or so and that you don't intend to sell is not only unseemly, it's a tempest in a teacup.

I believe that Paul also said that the company would never be an amp company after the dismal reception of the HG series amps back when... So, here we are now, the company is not only building amps, but actually competing in the amp market. Now, if you could go back in time and buy one of those old HG amps, you might have something that will appreciate...

Or it might not.

But it would look like this:

For the record, I didn't buy that amp until it was already rare and hard to find.

 

[andy474x]

I hate it when my pickups start to sound like crap because they're not exclusive anymore.

 

[alantig]

I look at it like this - what was the motivation for buying the 1957/2008 guitar in the first place? The exclusivity? And if it's that, was it the exclusivity of the guitar or the pickups?

I bought one of those models as well, in large part because of the description of the sound of the pickups. The "limited" part was something of a bonus, but it was not the deciding factor. When PRSG started putting the 57/08s in other guitars, there was a bit of a backlash. A part of me thought "they said they weren't going to do that", but the more I thought about it, I felt like I was being selfish thinking that way. I really like the sound of these pickups, and frankly, if they're good, why shouldn't more people be able to get their hands on them? Besides, the 57/08s today have evolved into something the original 57/08s are not.

PRS is hardly the first company to say "we will never..." only to later say "upon further consideration..." I certainly don't feel ripped off or hosed. The guitars themselves are limited - you can't get a 1957/2008 any more. Whether the components are available or not means almost nothing to me. Besides, I've had that guitar almost 10 years now - the time and joy I've had playing it are not tainted by more people getting the pickups. That can't be taken away.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Would you please get your hippy drums off my amp? You might scratch it, Bill.

 

[rugerpc]

The bongos add vibe to the harmonic generation making it über gooder.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

The bongos add vibe to the harmonic generation making it über gooder.

Is the harmonic generation in-between Baby Boomer's and Generation X?

 

[rugerpc]

It was the melōdy-als.

 

[azfarrier]

I knew on the PRS forum my comments would probably not be very well accepted. First thanks for the welcome charliefrench but you can tell by my date joined I've actually been a member since 2012. Had a lot of posts but I haven't been on here for quite a while. Not sure why my post count has been deleted.

So maybe it wasn't lying but he has gone back on his word. I can see that this may be very good for the company AND for those people that want to be able to buy those pickups. As I said I really do like the guitar and the pickups. But I'm an old school kind of guy. A persons word is supposed to mean something and maybe we can say Paul wasn't lying at the time or that he didn't intend to mislead the public but I don't think anyone can say he hasn't gone back on his word. There have been a number of times in my life that I have done things that were to my detriment because I had promised that I would. As I said I'm old school and my word does mean something to me.

So many of you are right. I bought the guitar because I loved the sound of it. Is it just the pickups? Is it the guitar? I don't know I've never felt the need to experiment because I like the tone I get. Did I pay more for it than a regular 245 with a 10 top? Absolutely. And the justification of the increased price by PRS was the fact that these pickups were going to be exclusive to that limited run. To exaggerate the point, some of you on here are Private Stock owners. You pay extra for certain things that are only available in the private stock line. In some cases you pay over $10k for these options. What if Paul decided tomorrow to discontinue the Private Stock line and come out with a new line offering all that used to be only available in the private stock and sell that guitar for 5K. Your guitar is now worth less than that because yours is used and they can buy a new one for 5K. As I said this is a gross exaggeration but hopefully you'll get my point.

I had no intention before this announcement came out and I have no intention now of selling that guitar. It will stay with me a long time. So no andy474x it's not because my pickups don't sound exclusive anymore. My rant is because we were told they were going to be exclusive. They were marketed as being exclusive. And we paid extra for that exclusivity.

I won't post about this again as I don't want people to think I'm a troll. I just think as a society we have gotten to a point where we accept a persons word as being meaningless and it really rubbed me the wrong way.

 

[rugerpc]

So the current summation is you feel you overpaid.

Were you happy with the price of the guitar before the pups appeared in other guitars? That's rhetorical. Of course you were, you didn't return it.

It really is no different from the financial hit almost all early adopters take. The first to pounce on something new usually pays a premium. It is rare in any market for the cost of something to go up as production and adoption goes up (normal inflation not withstanding).

Look at the premium prices paid for early TVs, for each improvement in TVs for that matter. Truly monster High Def TVs sell for what B&W TVs did years ago, adjusted for inflation. Were the B&W owners cheated?

I have a Priam hard drive sitting on the floor here that is 300MB that cost me $300 at the time. I can get a thumb drive that will hold gigabytes data for $15. I used the crap out of that Priam at the time and was glad to have it.

I get it. Your exclusive/limited guitar isn't so exclusive/limited anymore. Well, sorta. As Alan points out, today's 57/08s are different from the early ones. That, and your model is still, and forever will be, a limited run from 2008.

pie.

 

[alantig]

I don't look on it as going back on his word - I look at it as something has changed over time that resulted in him changing his position. All we know about it (at this point) is that Shawn was at least one voice pushing him to make this change. We don't know what all went into the decision to change that position, and I don't know that we should.

Let's look at it this way - have you ever changed positions on something? I'd venture all of us have. Something caused us to make that change - it doesn't mean that we didn't believe what we said originally when we said it.

As far as your guitar being worth less because of this, it's not. Your guitar is worth whatever price you and a buyer agree on, and since you have no intention of selling that guitar, it's still worth exactly the same. But...if you decide to sell that guitar someday, would you consider that going back on your word? I'm not trying to be combative or insinuate that you're being less than honest about your intentions, but it's a similar position.

 

[kes7u]

I do understand your frustration, as you feel you've been misled. You understand that you were not necessarily intentionally misled, but it happened nevertheless. I suppose you can either accept it and move on, as with so many other things in life, or decide that there are other guitar makers who would never mislead you. Your choice, really.

Regarding the PS comparison. I have several private stock guitars. Truthfully, if Paul decided to start selling hand crafted guitars with all of the unique features I want, at half price, I would not be upset in the least. I WOULD ask, "WHERE DO I SIGN UP????"

Kevin

 

[azfarrier]

I only have one last question. I've been off the forum for quite sometime. I see at the bottom of some of the responses the last thing written is pie. What exactly does that mean?

 

[rugerpc]

http://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/the-prs-lexicon.1044/

To be clear, nothing you have posted is against the rules. I don't debate you on the subject as a moderator or as representing the official position of the Forum or the company. In fact, if I did, I wouldn't be a moderator very long...

I understand your position. I just disagree with the severity of the situation.

Myself..
As a fellow forum member..

 

[azfarrier]

Well, as I said I wasn't going to post anymore on this subject, even before I knew what pie meant. I am a little surprised though at how quickly "pie" came up on the thread. It would lend me to believe that any criticism is not allowed on this forum. Too bad. I think talking with people of differing opinions is how we learn from each other.

 

[shinksma]

I think "pie" was utilized because this type of thread can either be:

1. Very short, with the OP (you) making a statement about something, and others either agreeing totally, to an extent, or not at all, and then we all agree that the differing opinions are just that, opinions, and there is little else to discuss, because no-one is going to be swayed either way.
2. Very long, because the opinionated posters continue to say "but what about..." back and forth, with still no movement in position on any side.

Pie is called when it becomes obvious we are leaning towards #2, not #1. You're not going to change your mind about being annoyed/disappointed, and others are not going to change their minds about "oh well, live and learn".

For what it is worth, the only time I would pay a premium for something "limited" is if I knew there were no possible avenues to create more. E.g. the mold was broken after a run of 200; or the wood used was from the front door to an ancient Norse church from Mesopotamia and that is all the wood there is; or the pickup wire used is simply impossible to make again with that gauge and coating (I find that last one difficult to believe - wire is just wire, it might be more expensive to make, but not impossible).

The Limited Edition Reclaimed Wood CEs and Velas announced earlier this month were advertised as limited to a run of 600 total, and I bought one. The limit may in fact be realistic, since the wood is reclaimed and isn't available in (essentially) unlimited quantities. However, if PRS comes across more wood to be reclaimed, perhaps even the same types of wood, and do another run, I won't be disappointed, I'll be happy for all the folks that also now get a chance to get one of these interesting guitars.

So your "limited edition" 57/08s were limited at the time (and are apparently different from today's anyway, in some way), but there is always the chance that someone is going realize the demand for such a thing is big enough to make them available again (though apparently not exactly a copy of what you have). And they are installed in a guitar model that will never be re-released (because if it was, it would be a 1957/2017 245, for example, if released this year).

IMHO, YMMV, side effects include head of a golden retriever, etc