85/15 Multi Tap Custom 24 08 Mini Switch Question

jamesC2224

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I have a set of 85/15 multi tap pickups and I'm trying to understand the difference between the mini switches used in Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08 wiring versus using dpdt switches. I have a set in one guitar wired exactly like Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08 and I really like the split sounds. Here is the wiring diagram for reference Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08

I would like to wire my Custom 22 (it has volume, tone, 3 way toggle) with the same switching but using two push pulls (dpdt volume and tone). My question is, is this possible since Paul's guitar uses triple pole mini switches instead of dpdt?
 
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The 24/08 offers at least three more switching options...

24/08 (3-way blade & two mini-toggles):
#1 (mini-toggles down): Bridge Humbucker
#2 (mini-toggles down): Bridge & Neck Humbucker
#3 (mini-toggles down): Neck Humbucker
#4 (mini-toggles up): Neck Singlecoil
#5 (mini-toggles up): Bridge & Neck Singlecoil
#6 (mini-toggles up): Bridge Singlecoil
#7 (one toggle up, one down): Bridge Singlecoil & Neck Humbucker
#8 (one toggle up, one down): Bridge Humbucker & Neck Singlecoil

Custom 24 (5-way blade switch):
#1: Bridge Humbucker
#2: Bridge Humbucker with Neck Singlecoil, in Parallel
#3: Bridge and Neck Humbuckers
#4: Neck Singlecoil with Bridge Singlecoil, in Parallel
#5: Neck Humbucker
 
The 24/08 offers at least three more switching options...

24/08 (3-way blade & two mini-toggles):
#1 (mini-toggles down): Bridge Humbucker
#2 (mini-toggles down): Bridge & Neck Humbucker
#3 (mini-toggles down): Neck Humbucker
#4 (mini-toggles up): Neck Singlecoil
#5 (mini-toggles up): Bridge & Neck Singlecoil
#6 (mini-toggles up): Bridge Singlecoil
#7 (one toggle up, one down): Bridge Singlecoil & Neck Humbucker
#8 (one toggle up, one down): Bridge Humbucker & Neck Singlecoil

Custom 24 (5-way blade switch):
#1: Bridge Humbucker
#2: Bridge Humbucker with Neck Singlecoil, in Parallel
#3: Bridge and Neck Humbuckers
#4: Neck Singlecoil with Bridge Singlecoil, in Parallel
#5: Neck Humbucker
Erick - Thanks for laying out the switching options. I'm asking about a PRS will McCarty style wiring not a 5 way switch. My question is: The 24/08 uses double throw tripe pole switches. Is it possible to get the same 24/08 positions using a three way toggle, volume push pull dpdt, and a tone push pull dpdt?
 
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To direct answer the OP: yes you can achieve this with push/pulls because the push/pull mechanism is essentially a DPDT switch. Fair warning: push/pull pots don’t have a very smooth feel like the normal PRS volume pots so if you’re a pinky volume rider this may not be an ideal setup (ask me how I know).

Edit: you can also try one of these for more switching possibilities https://www.freewayswitch.com/products/
 
I second the freeway. I'm a PRS volume pot junkie and use my knobs pretty heavily. I've used the freeway in multiple applications including PRS with good results. I've even used it with my SAS and a push pull for the middle pickup.
 
Easy - it would be like the CEs or older Customs with toggle. Assuming one volume, one push/pull tone and one 3-way toggle. I would follow the 3-way toggle wiring diagram used for CEs and older Customs. I'll attach it below. This is the easiest layout to use that allows splitting, also be sure to use the capacitor and resistor values that PRS has in the diagram. The resistors, in particular, are necessary when splitting the humbucker...the singlecoil tone is boosted/strengthened by the added resistance and helps avoid a weak, piddly tone when in split mode. PRS uses those resistor value across most, if not all, of its pickups (I've confirmed that with PRS when swapping untold numbers of pickups).

Check your pickups...McCartys have singe-conductor vintage-style braided wire. PRS uses an extra wire (usually white) for the coil-split. If you have that wire you are all set.

If you haven't done it before, it helps build a template of the control cavity out of cardboard or masonite. Attach the pots and secure them. That gives you nice platform to work around the components and help ensure you are giving sufficient wire slack in the circuit. Wiring inside the cavity comes at the end when you make you last connections - output jack ground and hot, bridge ground, and pickup leads.

For the resistors on the tone pot, I highly recommend wiring those on first, before introducing the pot itself onto your template/board. One end of the resistor lead solder to the middle lug. The other end grounds to the pot casing. Don' t trim the resistor leads until you are happy with how they are secured. If the pickups have four-wire leads (i.e. designed for the 5-way blade switch) you can still use them...just solder each pickups ' untapped coil wire to ground (one PU's red wire, and the other PU's green wire to ground).

You can get fancy and wire push pull for both the Volume and Tone to alter series vs parallel or other combinations. Personally, my favorite is 3-way toggle with single push/pull. More than that makes my head hurt.

3-Way Toggle / 1 Vol / 1 Push-Pull Tone
#1a Humbucker
#1b (Tone Pulled) Humbucker Singlecoil
#2a Humbucker & Neck
#2b (Tone Pulled) Humbucker & Neck both Singlecoil
#3a Neck
#3b (Tone Pulled) Neck Singlecoil

Parts
Volume - PRS 500k (made to spec by CTS or Bourns), including 180k treble bleed capacitor
Tone Pot / Push-Pull - 500K, Audio taper (PRS uses Alpha, I prefer Bourns)
Tone Cap - .033uF (PRS uses axial film caps - the best match to OEM spec is a Mallory 'mustard' polyester film capacitor)
Toggle Switch - Switchcraft 3-way toggle (PRS uses the 'L-style' right-angle version - the short-body straight switch also fits, but slightly more annoying to wire)
1/2W 2.2kΩ Resistor (Carbon Film) - To bridge PU wire coil-tap lug on push-pull pot (1/2W will work, just smaller than OEM spec)
1/2W 1.1kΩ Resistor (Carbon Composition- To neck PU wire coil-tap lug on push-pull pot (1/2W will work, just smaller than OEM spec)
*Note: Resistors in tone circuits are usually come metal film (blue), carbon film (tan), or, less-common, carbon composition (brown). PRS uses carbon composition resistors for this circuit. Carbon comps are harder to find...I recommend Amplified Parts or Tubes & More (same company). They will have all the other parts, as well.

 
Thanks for all the replies. What I’m really struggling to understand is why Paul’s Guitar and the 24/08 use a triple pole instead of a dual pole switch for the splits. Will I lose something by using dual pole switch?
 
Yes. Visualize like the six lugs on an average micro-toggle this:
ON-ON-ON
ON-ON-ON
ON-ON-ON
vs
ON-ON-ON
ON-ON-ON

You can see the difference in possible wiring options. PRS initially used the uses double (bottom). They have since changed their wiring to use the triple (top) a triple in order to enable the connection/switching/combination of tone caps and coil splits. , and You need the triple in order to maintain the various capacitor connection PRS uses in the circuit.
Check out the picture and (current) PRS wiring diagram:



 
Thanks for all the replies. What I’m really struggling to understand is why Paul’s Guitar and the 24/08 use a triple pole instead of a dual pole switch for the splits. Will I lose something by using dual pole switch?
I haven’t gotten a chance to meter this new wiring configuration, but if the pickups are internally the same coil configuration you can do it with DPDT. I’d speculate the extra caps are there to keep more highs in circuit for single coil mode.
 
I have a set of 85/15 multi tap pickups and I'm trying to understand the difference between the mini switches used in Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08 wiring versus using dpdt switches. I have a set in one guitar wired exactly like Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08 and I really like the split sounds. Here is the wiring diagram for reference Paul's Guitar/Custom 24 08

I would like to wire my Custom 22 (it has volume, tone, 3 way toggle) with the same switching but using two push pulls (dpdt volume and tone). My question is, is this possible since Paul's guitar uses triple pole mini switches instead of dpdt?
Hi James,

I've just upgraded my SE Custom 24 to have the 24/08 pickup combinations. This is a link to my post on how I did it. https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/se-custom-24-to-custom-24-08-conversion.51668/
 
Am I correct in understanding that the “keeping the volume and hum cancel in split mode” comes from the partial ground via resistors on the mini toggles?

The 24-08 pickups are wired normally and don’t have a split wire coming from the middle, correct?

I’m entertaining getting an S2 24-08 and might want more aggressive pickups in it but am wondering if they’d split the same way as stock…

(This may all be a @garrett question)
 
Am I correct in understanding that the “keeping the volume and hum cancel in split mode” comes from the partial ground via resistors on the mini toggles?
The hum cancelation comes from having the single coil of each pickup in opposite directions.

The 24-08 pickups are wired normally and don’t have a split wire coming from the middle, correct?
No, not correct, the 20-08 are split by sending the humbucker coil series link (middle wires) sent to ground.

Resistors or capacitors are used to control how much or quickly the link is sent to ground. Completely grounded (no resistor) the Humbucker is completely split which also drops the volume. Adding resistors or capacitor will allow the second coil to continue working but filter off some of the frequencies, this still provides a single coil (like) tone but balances the volume drop.

With regards to replacing your pickups, there are two types of wiring on Humbuckers, the vintage type with a single lead comprised of a shielded outer wire and internal cloth wire or the modern type that has 5 wires North Start, North Finish, South Start, South Finish and Ground. Any modern 5 wire pickup can be used to replace a PRS Humbucker.

You just need to translate the wire colours to PRS, for example Seymour Duncan pickups would be as follows

Treble (Bridge)
SD-Black = PRS-Black = Hot
SD-White = PRS-White = Link
SD-Red = PRS-Green = Link
SD-Green = PRS-Red = Gnd
SD-Bare = PRS-Bare = Gnd

Bass (Neck)
SD-Green = PRS-White = Hot
SD-Red = PRS-Black = Link
SD-White = PRS-Red = Link
SD-Black = PRS-Green = Gnd
SD-Bare = PRS-Bare = Gnd
 
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The hum cancelation comes from having the single coil of each pickup in opposite directions.


No, not correct, the 20-08 are split by sending the humbucker coil series link (middle wires) sent to ground.

Resistors or capacitors are used to control how much or quickly the link is sent to ground. Completely grounded (no resistor) the Humbucker is completely split which also drops the volume. Adding resistors or capacitor will allow the second coil to continue working but filter off some of the frequencies, this still provides a single coil (like) tone but balances the volume drop.

With regards to replacing your pickups, there are two types of wiring on Humbuckers, the vintage type with a single lead comprised of a shielded outer wire and internal cloth wire or the modern type that has 5 wires North Start, North Finish, South Start, South Finish and Ground. Any modern 5 wire pickup can be used to replace a PRS Humbucker.

You just need to translate the wire colours to PRS, for example Seymour Duncan pickups would be as follows

Treble (Bridge)
SD-Black = PRS-Black = Hot
SD-White = PRS-White = Link
SD-Red = PRS-Green = Link
SD-Green = PRS-Red = Gnd
SD-Bare = PRS-Bare = Gnd

Bass (Neck)
SD-Green = PRS-White = Hot
SD-Red = PRS-Black = Link
SD-White = PRS-Red = Link
SD-Black = PRS-Green = Gnd
SD-Bare = PRS-Bare = Gnd
I think we’re maybe saying the same thing and talking past each other.

From what I understand, there are some pickups maybe the 85/15 MT where the split wire is coming from the middle of one of the coils - not between the two coils - so you get partial hum cancel when the splitting bc it’s not a full split.

I think the 24-08 pickups are regular 4 or 5 conductors and you could achieve the same effect with a set of Duncan Holcombs, right? That’s what I’m trying to nail down.
 
I think the 24-08 pickups are regular 4 or 5 conductors and you could achieve the same effect with a set of Duncan Holcombs, right? That’s what I’m trying to nail down.
Yes, you could swap out the 24-08 pickups with the SD Holcombs with no problem. As mentioned above, the wire colours are different but they work exactly the same.
 
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