58/15 TM - too shrill?

[mateias]

Hi all...

I've got a newer Santana Retro that has a 58/15 TM in the bridge position - I'm finding it way too shrill, too high mids and no body.

Is there any aftermarket (or PRS?) pickup that approximates the Sananta bridge pickup?

I played a 1996 Santana I through my rig, with the stock pickups - and it sounded great. I understand that PRS doesn't sell these pickups separately, so looking for the next closest thing. I just don't get on with the 58/15 TM.

thanks!

 

[shimmilou]

Have you tried adjusting the pup heights? Raise the bass side a little, lower the treble side a little. Small adjustments can have a noticeable impact on tone.

 

[Rider1260]

The stock Santana pickups ( bridge ) is a hotter pickup ( surprised me ) at 10k
The Mira / 245 would be the closest and a pickup I like a lot

 

[Tone-y]

Does the Santana Retro have a treble bleed cap on the volume pot? Have a look in the control cavity and if there's a 180pf cap on the volume pot that's it. You could try disconnecting it if you have one. That might solve things for you.
It might also sound stupid to suggest it, but try knocking the tone control on the bridge down to 7 or 8. Too often forget to adjust these controls.

 

[mateias]

Have you tried adjusting the pup heights? Raise the bass side a little, lower the treble side a little. Small adjustments can have a noticeable impact on tone.

Hi - I did indeed, and it didn't make that much of a difference. I think it is the overall tone/design of the pickup.

 

[mateias]

Does the Santana Retro have a treble bleed cap on the volume pot? Have a look in the control cavity and if there's a 180pf cap on the volume pot that's it. You could try disconnecting it if you have one. That might solve things for you.
It might also sound stupid to suggest it, but try knocking the tone control on the bridge down to 7 or 8. Too often forget to adjust these controls.

Thanks for that suggestion. I'll open it up and have a look, I have to admit that I haven't opened it up yet - they're such beautiful guitars that I'm loathe to start tinkering with them

 

[Tone-y]

Thanks for that suggestion. I'll open it up and have a look, I have to admit that I haven't opened it up yet - they're such beautiful guitars that I'm loathe to start tinkering with them

I see in your introduction post that you are a Brit, so hello and welcome from another Brit.

Don't feel too bad about opening the guitar up. If there is a treble bleed cap in there it's easy to identify and not too hard a job to unsolder one of the legs and leave it where it is.

I don't know if the retro has one, but they are fairly standard fit on PRS these days. I had one in my 53/10 limited and it didn't work for me as I preferred the warmer more traditional sound without it, so I've just taken one of the legs off where it attaches on the volume pot.

 

[mateias]

I see in your introduction post that you are a Brit, so hello and welcome from another Brit.

Don't feel too bad about opening the guitar up. If there is a treble bleed cap in there it's easy to identify and not too hard a job to unsolder one of the legs and leave it where it is.

I don't know if the retro has one, but they are fairly standard fit on PRS these days. I had one in my 53/10 limited and it didn't work for me as I preferred the warmer more traditional sound without it, so I've just taken one of the legs off where it attaches on the volume pot.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm a fairly new resident, we moved here from Dublin in 2005... wow how time flies!

I'll have a wee look this week, that might be the issue. I've read lots of great reviews about that pickup, so I'm puzzled why it would sound so toppy.

I can see that the bridge pickup on the Santana is almost right against the bridge itself, so it is going to be a bit more zingy, but there is no bass to speak of.

The neck pickup is lovely though

 

[Tone-y]

I can see that the bridge pickup on the Santana is almost right against the bridge itself, so it is going to be a bit more zingy, but there is no bass to speak of.

I just looked and you're right, all the USA Santana models have the bridge pickup right up against the trem, whereas a Cu24 has more of a gap. This could be down to the effects of the scale length though, as a Cu24 is 25" scale, and has a bit of a gap between pickup and trem, whereas searching for 24.5" scale PRS with trem shows them a bit nearer to the Santana position. The Santana's do look to be closer though, so this could be where a bit of extra brightness comes from.

There are many fans of the Santana models on here and I'm sure they will be able to tell you whether a bright bridge pickup is normal. You might need to make a post mentioning Santana to draw them in to the thread though!

 

[mateias]

OK - prised off cover and this is what I see:

 

[Tone-y]

OK - prised off cover and this is what I see:

Unfortunately you're picture link doesn't work

 

[mateias]

Hmmm let me try that again.. https://imgur.com/v8vaKT8

 

[Tone-y]

Ok that kind of works, though it hasn't embedded the image. There is quite a nack to it.
Anyway, I can't see any treble bleed cap on the volume, so it isn't that

 

[László]

I know this is going to seem way too obvious...

I wind up re-setting my amps (and any pedals) when I switch guitars. I know. Terribly simple, but also easily forgotten if you’re just used to one amp setting for everything.

A gentle reminder, if you haven’t already thought of it.

 

[11top]

Not my favorite pickup, but I'm way in the minority in that opinion. I like the 58/15 better than the LTs. But hey, that's why they make more than one pickup, right?

 

[Boogie]

I know this is going to seem way too obvious...

I wind up re-setting my amps (and any pedals) when I switch guitars. I know. Terribly simple, but also easily forgotten if you’re just used to one amp setting for everything.

A gentle reminder, if you haven’t already thought of it.

This is exactly what I was going to mention. Start from scratch and don’t let another inferior guitar set the basis for your awesome Santana.

 

[Tone-y]

Not my favorite pickup, but I'm way in the minority in that opinion. I like the 58/15 better than the LTs. But hey, that's why they make more than one pickup, right?

I think these are the standard 58/15s, not the LTs.

 

[WA Paul]

The 58/15 regular is the only 5x/xx series pickup I don’t get along with. Like you, I found them bright, somewhat shrill and lacking bass. I think a 57/08 which you can order from PRS would likely work better for you and still match up well in the bridge. 59/09s are a little hotter, but sometimes they can sound a bit compressed to some folks (I love ‘em).

 

[László]

The 58/15 regular is the only 5x/xx series pickup I don’t get along with. Like you, I found them bright, somewhat shrill and lacking bass. I think a 57/08 which you can order from PRS would likely work better for you and still match up well in the bridge. 59/09s are a little hotter, but sometimes they can sound a bit compressed to some folks (I love ‘em).

I like the 58/15s and the LT version, and the 57/08s, and the 85/15s...I’m just too easy!!!

And I have all of the above. On some guitars, I just roll back the guitar volume a little, adjust the amp, and I’m in business.

I should have added that dialing back the guitar volume a bit really works with a PRS.

 

[WA Paul]

I like the 58/15s and the LT version, and the 57/08s, and the 85/15s...I’m just too easy!!!

And I have all of the above. On some guitars, I just roll back the guitar volume a little, adjust the amp, and I’m in business.

I should have added that dialing back the guitar volume a bit really works with a PRS.

Sometimes, if I sense the planets are in alignment, I’ll even mess with the Tone knob while messing with the Volume knob!