58/15 LT+

[Mozzi]

Mozzi, don’t forget that the pickups in the ‘59 LP aren’t the original ones, so as Sergio pointed out it’s not strictly a true comparison. If I remember the ‘59 pickups are in the Goldtop he plays.

I know but the Gold top - an older guitar but with the 59 PU's also matched up very well under scrutiny. I am sure if you could get all the 59 Les Paul guitars with their original 59 Humbuckers installed, they wouldn't all sound exactly the same anyway. If you can't distinctly pick out a PRS 594 in a mix - especially amongst multiple Les Pauls - with just your ears, then you can safely say its achieved what it set out to do.

Like the JM635's in the Silver Sky being incredibly close to 63/64 Strats (probably John Mayers Strat but I have seen quite a few video's where others have also compared the SS to a real 63/64 strat too), then PRS have given us 'affordable' alternatives to trying to locate a decent vintage instrument tonally. I cannot afford to go and spend 59 LP money or buy a 63/64 strat to get those vintage tones and these guitars offer the sound with PRS quality and consistency.

How close any of these guitars are to the instruments they are inspired by would certainly vary depending on the vintage instrument as I bet they vary more than the PRS guitars do so saying a SC594 sounds the same as a real 59 LP is not saying they sound exactly the same as every 59 LP but that they sound like a genuine 59 LP to the point you wouldn't be able pick it out and have a new instrument with the benefits that a new guitar has and without the price tag that vintage guitars have.

 

[dkilpatrick]

The changes mentioned in the Tim/Howard video are all "flying changes". The finish on all Core models is now the new nitro finish. All core pickups will be TCI by November 1st and the new 594 tuners will be 100% implemented by January 1st.

Shawn,
Is it safe to assume that the artist 594 hollowbody II that I ordered in April will most likely have these new appointments by the time my dealer takes delivery?

 

[Shawn@PRS]

Shawn,
Is it safe to assume that the artist 594 hollowbody II that I ordered in April will most likely have these new appointments by the time my dealer takes delivery?

Absolutely!

 

[dkilpatrick]

Absolutely!

Score!

 

[CandidPicker]

If I understand everything that we have received so far in terms of information, the 2020 SC594 guitars will be supplied with the 58/15 LT+ pick ups and ALL 594's before the 2020 models, will have the 58/15 LT's as they have since launch. The only way to compare is to somehow get hold of both the new 2020 SC 594 and a genuine 59 Gibson Les Paul. The reason Tim Pierce and Howard Leese were able to make that video is because Howard Leese owns a genuine 59 Gibson LP and has been receiving Prototypes for the 2020 SC 594 - in the video, he does state that one set of Prototype PU's were a but too heavy on the bass....

...The LT+ have been developed for the SC594 with the rest of the range fitted with the 58/15 LT's that have all been through the TCI process - which is not just pick-ups but electronics too - balancing the resistor to the Pick-up or something like that which is what PRS do with the Silver Sky - the development of the SS did lead to the TCI pick-ups and it seems that it can be applied to most (if not all) pick-ups that PRS offer...

The changes mentioned in the Tim/Howard video are all "flying changes". The finish on all Core models is now the new nitro finish. All core pickups will be TCI by November 1st and the new 594 tuners will be 100% implemented by January 1st.

Thank you for this.

So any new models after 11/2019 will be TCI 58/15LT+'s. Likewise if we wait until 01/2020, the tuners will be to spec on new models.

Is there a general consensus that is might be wise to wait for the 01/2020 models? Also, if there were a slight price hike above what core 594 SC's are now priced, or if we desire the Tim Pierce reviewed tone, might we know what the new price might be, so to consider current prices vs. potential 2020 prices?

Or if we inquire at our local retailer and order a new 2020 model, could they provide a price with desired order specs?

Please accept my apologies for my curiosity. Am weighing current costs vs. my budget for next year...

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I know but the Gold top - an older guitar but with the 59 PU's also matched up very well under scrutiny. I am sure if you could get all the 59 Les Paul guitars with their original 59 Humbuckers installed, they wouldn't all sound exactly the same anyway. If you can't distinctly pick out a PRS 594 in a mix - especially amongst multiple Les Pauls - with just your ears, then you can safely say its achieved what it set out to do.

Like the JM635's in the Silver Sky being incredibly close to 63/64 Strats (probably John Mayers Strat but I have seen quite a few video's where others have also compared the SS to a real 63/64 strat too), then PRS have given us 'affordable' alternatives to trying to locate a decent vintage instrument tonally. I cannot afford to go and spend 59 LP money or buy a 63/64 strat to get those vintage tones and these guitars offer the sound with PRS quality and consistency.

How close any of these guitars are to the instruments they are inspired by would certainly vary depending on the vintage instrument as I bet they vary more than the PRS guitars do so saying a SC594 sounds the same as a real 59 LP is not saying they sound exactly the same as every 59 LP but that they sound like a genuine 59 LP to the point you wouldn't be able pick it out and have a new instrument with the benefits that a new guitar has and without the price tag that vintage guitars have.

I agree, one guitar will sound different from another, even if they are constructed in the same way. Back in ‘59 the tolerances may have been less exact. As the stories go, the pickup winding was probably less accurate.

I remember Bernie talking about his ‘59 and that is was a more lively instrument than other guitars he’d played.

We now know, courtesy of Howard, that the Kossoff LP has early SD pickups in it.

All I know that 594 sounded great to me. Helped a lot by the hands that were on the guitar!

 

[Guitpicky]

You should start a guitar company

Why?

 

[CandidPicker]

I agree, one guitar will sound different from another, even if they are constructed in the same way. Back in ‘59 the tolerances may have been less exact. As the stories go, the pickup winding was probably less accurate.

I remember Bernie talking about his ‘59 and that is was a more lively instrument than other guitars he’d played.

We now know, courtesy of Howard, that the Kossoff LP has early SD pickups in it.

All I know that 594 sounded great to me. Helped a lot by the hands that were on the guitar!

I think this may be the moot point regards the TCI 58/15LT+'s. The TCI may be designed to insure that each guitar that comes off the production line sounds like the vintage '59 LP tone Paul speaks about.

Before TCI, there are variables that cause each guitar to sound different...I think what Paul is striving for is the classic '57 or '59-voiced LP, so as to provide that grail tone at a far more reachable price for folks who've never held or played a '59 LP...

View Sweetwater's 594 videos and see for yourselves what Paul is saying...

 

[Shawn@PRS]

Thank you for this.

So any new models after 11/2019 will be TCI 58/15LT+'s. Likewise if we wait until 01/2020, the tuners will be to spec on new models.

Is there a general consensus that is might be wise to wait for the 01/2020 models? Also, if there were a slight price hike above what core 594 SC's are now priced, or if we desire the Tim Pierce reviewed tone, might we know what the new price might be, so to consider current prices vs. potential 2020 prices?

Or if we inquire at our local retailer and order a new 2020 model, could they provide a price with desired order specs?

Please accept my apologies for my curiosity. Am weighing current costs vs. my budget for next year...

As I mentioned, all of these are flying changes which will be fully implemented by January 1 at the very latest. If you have a guitar on order, it will most likely come with the new appointments.

Prices will be announced to dealers before NAMM, but I don't know what, if any, price changes will take place.

 

[donderom]

I'm waiting for someone to compare 58/15LT with 58/15LT+ side by side(@bryanewald?).

 

[Black Plaid]

I'm waiting for someone to compare 58/15LT with 58/15LT+ side by side(@bryanewald?).

I think the whole point is that they sounds as close as possible in the guitars they are designed for.

 

[pauloqs]

TCI is a combination of pickups and electronics. It's a culmination of everything Paul has learned in 35+ years of guitar building. We've taken all of the variable and made the tolerances extremely tight. Think about the genuine PAF pickups. Some of them sound like the voice of God, while some of them just sound OK. Why is that? Because too many things were left to chance. With TCI we leave nothing to chance and control every aspect of the design and construction. Each TCI pickup set is tuned to the specific guitar. Think of it as a mixing counsel, we've mixed the sound to be exactly what we want, every time.

All Core guitars are getting TCI treatment now. S2 guitars will follow in the near future.

The S2s as well. You guys are killing it!!!

 

[Figaro]

@Shawn@PRS

Just to be clear...
The 58/15 LT+ pickups come in the SC594 and the 58/15 LT pickups come in the 594, correct?
Is the only difference is the 58/15 LT+ pickups are just a little brighter than the 58/15 LT pickups?
Is that because the SC594 thicker body has a little fatter sound than the 594 so the + pickups are a little brighter to compensate for that difference?

 

[shimmilou]

The neck joint will effect the tone of a guitar, so if all things were equal, a Singlecut would sound differently than a double cutaway guitar. The 58/15LT+ pickups are tuned specifically for a Singlecut neck joint.

 

[Figaro]

Thanks. I missed that post.
I just didn’t realize there was enough of a difference in the sound of a SC and DC to warrant having brighter pickups. Very interesting.

 

[CandidPicker]

As I mentioned, all of these are flying changes which will be fully implemented by January 1 at the very latest. If you have a guitar on order, it will most likely come with the new appointments.

Prices will be announced to dealers before NAMM, but I don't know what, if any, price changes will take place.

Please be gentle with us. We're relatively fragile old folks and sometimes don't know who is in our wallets.

 

[CandidPicker]

@Shawn@PRS

Just to be clear...
The 58/15 LT+ pickups come in the SC594 and the 58/15 LT pickups come in the 594, correct?
Is the only difference is the 58/15 LT+ pickups are just a little brighter than the 58/15 LT pickups?
Is that because the SC594 thicker body has a little fatter sound than the 594 so the + pickups are a little brighter to compensate for that difference?

Fig,

From what I've read thus far, the 58/15LT+ designation means the pickups are tuned to individual 594 guitars, and will be put into place on existing open orders (at least from April 2019 forwards) that are due for delivery after 2020, and all new orders for 2020 models.

The 'tuning' adjusts for several variables in each guitar (as Shawn describes in previous posts), and improves the production process to recreate the vintage '59 LP tone many guitarists seek.

 

[Guitpicky]

Thanks. I missed that post.
I just didn’t realize there was enough of a difference in the sound of a SC and DC to warrant having brighter pickups. Very interesting.

I'm betting in an unbiased blind test nobody here would be able to pick out one from the other... not even Paul Reed Smith

If you can there's a hundred bucks in it for you, if you can't there's a hundred bucks in it for me. Any takers?

 

[Figaro]

Fig,

From what I've read thus far, the 58/15LT+ designation means the pickups are tuned to individual 594 guitars, and will be put into place on existing open orders that are due for delivery after 2020, and all new orders for 2020 models.

The 'tuning' adjusts for several variables in each guitar (as Shawn describes in previous posts), and improves the production process to recreate the vintage '59 LP tone many guitarists seek.

I think according to one one of Sawn’s earlier posts, the 58/15 LT+ is for single cut 594’s and the regular 58/15 LT is for double cut 594’s.

Shawn said “The neck joint will effect the tone of a guitar, so if all things were equal, a Singlecut would sound differently than a double cutaway guitar. The 58/15LT+ pickups are tuned specifically for a Singlecut neck joint.”

 

[Mozzi]

I think according to one one of Sawn’s earlier posts, the 58/15 LT+ is for single cut 594’s and the regular 58/15 LT is for double cut 594’s.

Shawn said “The neck joint will effect the tone of a guitar, so if all things were equal, a Singlecut would sound differently than a double cutaway guitar. The 58/15LT+ pickups are tuned specifically for a Singlecut neck joint.”

That's what I understood too but I don't know if the 58/15 LT+ Pups are made for the Single Cuts to sound more like the 59 Les Paul as has been demonstrated by Tim Pierce/Howard Leese, but has the Double Cut sound remained more like we came to love from the original 594 with the small tweaks to make the split coil sounds better thanks to the implementation of the TCI technology? In other words, are the 58/15 LT+ used to make the Single Cut sound more like the double cut with the 58/15 LT's, used to counteract the difference with the neck joint, or is it to make them sound more like the vintage 59 Gibson Les Paul?

If its just to make the Single Cut sound more like the Double Cut 594 to counteract the difference in the neck joint, then that would also mean the new Double Cuts with the TCI 58/15 LT's sound like the 59 Les Paul. Obviously that could be easy to test once both SC & DC 594's are out on the market - you don't need a 59 LP for example. If the DC sounds like the SC which we know sounds like the 59 LP, then the '+' part is literally to offset the difference in the neck pocket and either shape will give the same sounding results - it won't matter what shape you pick. If there is a difference, then it would indicate that the SC with the '+' Pups has been created to sound more like the Single Cut 59 Les Paul rather than to offset the neck joint difference and a 'different' guitar to the DC.