58/15 LT "S" in 2024 SE vs 58/15 "S" pickups in 2022 S2

[polybius]

Hi everyone. First post here. I bought my first PRS a couple of months ago, an SE McCarty 594 Singlecut. I had set out to buy a Les Paul but was unimpressed with the ones I tried that were within my budget.
Anyway, I ended up liking the SE so much that I bought an S2 (new but a 2022 model at a reduced price) as well. Here they are:

The SE is listed as having 58/15 LT "S" pickups and the 2022 S2 as having 58/15 "S". My understanding from reading posts on this forum and elsewhere was that these pickups were the same. Having A/B'd the two guitars for a couple of weeks now, something that has surprised me is that I have found myself consistently preferring the sounds I'm getting from the SE. The S2 is noticeably brighter and with less pleasing harmonic overtones, at least to my ears. Pickup height and set up on both guitars is identical.

The S2's switch has an intermittent issue (very low output from the bridge pickup) which led me to open up the cavities. Out of curiosity I did the same on the SE. This is what they look like:

S2:

SE:

It seems strange to me that the nicer pushback wire would be in use on the lower end guitar. The difference also suggests that either these are not the same pickups or that G&B changed the wiring at some point between 2022 and 2024. I have yet to pull the pickups to check model numbers but will do so at the next string change.

I would be interested to know your thoughts on this. Are these really the same pickups? Of course it's entirely possible that other factors here are contributing to the sound differences, variability in actual cap and pot values vs spec etc...

Cheers

 

[show_a_little_faith]

Congrats, and welcome! I've heard the statements that they're the same, but have no verification. It's interesting you hear such differences with similar setups (height), but I wonder how much you could improve the S2 by tweaking it to your ear? Small adjustments can make a big difference.
Personally, I have guitars from SE, S2 and Core and am really happy with all of them so I'd say most important is to follow your ears and hands, everything else is just details

 

[polybius]

Thank you @show_a_little_faith.

I have played with the heights on the S2 but have yet to find a sweet spot for the bridge pickup, although with some EQ I can get it closer to what I want. The neck pickup sounds pretty good, although notably different from the SE. I honestly do think these are different pickups, or at least from a different batch that were made differently (judging by the completely different wire in use). If it wasn't so much effort, I'd be tempted to remove the entire harness + pickups from the SE and transplant them into the S2 just as an experiment.
The electronics in the S2 do seem somewhat cheaper and lower quality in general than those in the SE. The wiring and the caps in particular.

Ultimately, I'll probably end up just doing a pickup swap on the S2. It's a great guitar otherwise. Certainly a cut above the SE in terms of build quality and feel.

 

[show_a_little_faith]

Yeah, much as I love PRS I definitely wish they were a little more open about their pickup details

 

[polybius]

I see they now sell 58/15 LT pickups via their website, but can't say I'm crazy about the embossed text on the covers which would be upside down for the bridge pickup. I've heard the 57/08's are excellent as well, but I'll probably end up going with a set of Bare Knuckles.
I'd be interested to A/B my S2 with a 2024 model as well, as they now have the pickups from the Core line.

 

[show_a_little_faith]

For the most part, I've been happy with the stock ones in mine. The only exception was the SE 35th Anniversary, which came with TCI-S ones that were a little too bright for me. I actually replaced them with a set of 58/15-S.
Bareknuckle has a lot of fans here, as do Wolftone and SD (Pearly Gates etc.)

 

[MWebster]

The S2 will probably be your fav after a pickup swap and if you ever feel like, there are pre wired harnesses for the 594 wiring. I really like that the S2 have lacquer finish, the bronze graphite nuts and one piece bodies. I find they're very resonant instruments. The new 2024's are sweet, I just posted about my thinline.

For pickups in those, here are my suggestions...

-57/08 neck, 59/09 bridge or \M/ bridge
-Bareknuckle Mule set
-Bareknuckle Abraxas neck, Rebel Yell bridge
-Lundgren Black Heaven set in alnico (ballsy musical LP tone, amazing sustain and harmonics, very versatile)

 

[polybius]

Thanks for the suggestions @MWebster. I have a Feline Guitars Lion arriving in a few days with a set of BKP Mules in it and I have Holy Divers in another guitar. Most of my other guitars have DiMarzios of one form or another. I'm a particular fan of the Tone Zone in Ash body guitars.

The S2 is already my preferred of the two from a feel perspective. They are within 2oz of each other weight wise (8lb 7oz for the S2, 8lb 9oz for the SE), but the SE is very body heavy on a strap. The S2 has more mass in the neck and just feels like a more balanced instrument. Acoustically the SE is slightly louder but hollow sounding, probably due to the lighter neck (and possibly a weight relieved body). Upper fret access is also easier on the S2 due to the much slimmer heel.
Once the Feline arrives, the SE will be up for sale and I'll make a decision on pickups for the S2.

 

[MWebster]

I looked them up, that Feline Lion is a slick looking axe. Congrats. Mules will be exactly what the doctor ordered in that bad boy.

But that S2 is seriously nice, I really like that finish. Would you ever decide to swap the LT's from the SE into it? I don't mean to sound snobbish but the S2's feel like a proper instrument and I've always felt something is missing with SE's in some way, the odd one is exceptional. Others here have said the 58/15LT's sound amazing in solid body McCarty's and it's true but the bridge is a little weak thus the 59/09 or metal is a great option for girth.

 

[polybius]

Thanks. Feline have done a couple of refrets and other bits for me over the last year and they do exceptional work. They've stopped taking custom build orders due to the retirement of a key staff member, so I figured there was no time like the present to add one of their creations to the collection.

The S2 is a beaut for sure. It was a toss up between two that were both "McCarty Sunburst", but the other one had much more "burst" to it. In the end I picked the one that weighed the least and had the darker fingerboard.
I'm actually really tempted to drop in the whole wiring harness from the SE, just out of curiosity. The pots, caps and resistors could be an overlooked factor in the sound differences I'm hearing. I have no idea what the tolerances are with those parts, but I can't imagine they're particularly tight.

I think the SE's are great guitars for the money, especially compared to other brands' Indonesian built lines. Ibanez's "Premium" line pricing is an absolute joke by comparison. But, I think the S2 is the sweet spot when it comes to bang for the buck, especially with the 2024 models having USA electronics. I do prefer the "shallow violin" top carve on the SE over the "asymmetric bevel" on the S2 though.

That Thinline of yours is sweet btw. Looks great in black. Would love to see a photo of the control cavity for comparison with my two!

 

[tdroid]

I've spoken to two customer service agents at PRS, both stating that they're the same pickup. The LT is just rebranded, as the original 58/15 "S" was already low turn. You'll notice that every guitar that used to come equipped with the 58/15 "S" now comes with the LT, as well.

I don't feel like fishing through my e-mails, but I'm pretty sure I quoted one of them in some of my older comments.

 

[polybius]

Thanks @tdroid. I don't doubt that they're supposed to be the same, but the use of different wire suggests that, at the very least, G&B changed the assembly process between the batches that these guitars' respective pickups came from. More importantly, the DC resistance is significantly different, so while they might be the same model, they are not in fact "the same".

S2
8.3k neck
8.7k bridge

SE
7.2k neck
7.4k bridge

Of course, the effect of the other parts in the chain here, the pots and caps, can't be known without additional testing. The electronics in the S2 are exceptionally cheesy though, so they're all destined for replacement anyway.

 

[polybius]

The underside of the neck pickups for comparison...

SE (2024 model):

S2 (2022 model):

 

[Abe]

Nice guitars!

Having played a ton on my old Gibson Les Paul, I have to say that I'm getting something out of the feel and response of my PRS SE that I never got from my Gibson Les Paul. The one thing that slightly disappointed me at first was a shortage of bright treble highs even from the bridge pickup. But a pickup height adjustment and some amp and EQ settings and I'm now feeling great about it being my go to electric guitar.

Feeling like if things go my way that in the future I'll have some money squirreled away to get the American made core PRS equivalent of this SE guitar. It's a very nice thing that apparently with PRS even the SE lets you have enough of the feel and elegance with which to find out if PRS is for you. I think PRS is for me to the extent that I'd be willing to leapfrog right over the S2 and get myself a top tier PRS when I am able.

 

[polybius]

Feeling like if things go my way that in the future I'll have some money squirreled away to get the American made core PRS equivalent of this SE guitar

Before I bought the S2, I had almost talked myself into buying a 10-top 594 Singlecut. Even at 2.9x the price I paid for the S2, it still seemed like a good deal compared to the few LPs I found that meet my criteria (weight of ~8.5lbs or under and a dark fingerboard), which were Murphy Lab 59's at fairly eye-watering prices. The 10-top 594 weighed 8lbs on the nose. Some of the regular LPs I looked at, including a "Greeny" must have been pushing 10lbs and were twice the price of the 8.4lb S2 I ended up with.

All that said, my experience has made me see PRS's pricing in a whole new light.

 

[Abe]

Yea my Les Paul was very heavy and really hurt my shoulder playing it strapped.

 

[SinSir]

I've spoken to two customer service agents at PRS, both stating that they're the same pickup. The LT is just rebranded, as the original 58/15 "S" was already low turn. You'll notice that every guitar that used to come equipped with the 58/15 "S" now comes with the LT, as well.

I don't feel like fishing through my e-mails, but I'm pretty sure I quoted one of them in some of my older comments.

How I remember it when this came up.. you were told the 5815S in the seHb2 have always been LT. Which made sense to me at the time because my 5815S in my seHb2 read much lower than the 5815S from other guitars. Not all 5815S have always been LT

 

[MWebster]

Thanks. Feline have done a couple of refrets and other bits for me over the last year and they do exceptional work. They've stopped taking custom build orders due to the retirement of a key staff member, so I figured there was no time like the present to add one of their creations to the collection.

The S2 is a beaut for sure. It was a toss up between two that were both "McCarty Sunburst", but the other one had much more "burst" to it. In the end I picked the one that weighed the least and had the darker fingerboard.
I'm actually really tempted to drop in the whole wiring harness from the SE, just out of curiosity. The pots, caps and resistors could be an overlooked factor in the sound differences I'm hearing. I have no idea what the tolerances are with those parts, but I can't imagine they're particularly tight.

I think the SE's are great guitars for the money, especially compared to other brands' Indonesian built lines. Ibanez's "Premium" line pricing is an absolute joke by comparison. But, I think the S2 is the sweet spot when it comes to bang for the buck, especially with the 2024 models having USA electronics. I do prefer the "shallow violin" top carve on the SE over the "asymmetric bevel" on the S2 though.

That Thinline of yours is sweet btw. Looks great in black. Would love to see a photo of the control cavity for comparison with my two!

I'll try to get you a photo of the cavity and I actually just bought the same S2 594 as yours but the double cut version from 2023 and the website claims it's the 58/15 LT "S" stacking it side by side the actual LT in the thinline, they both share the same underlying vocal quality and handle very similarly. If it is indeed the LT "S" it's not a bad pickup at all!! Mucho gusto. The "S" version really only sounds smoother and a little less "alive".

 

[MarshallMike]

I have a 2021 and 2022 S2 McCarty 594. They have identical pickups and setup and they sound a little different. One is a little brighter.
I'm a tonewood guy so I chalk that difference up to that.

 

[MWebster]

Inside the cavity of one of my Thinline 594 with the 58/15LT's and core wiring if you are still interested in seeing.