58/15 Low Turn Pickup Alternatives

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Guitarcal, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. GavQuinn

    GavQuinn New Member

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    Yeah, I'd imagine the Mules do very well if you've an amazing guitar, just had to give a plug for Monty's these PAFs are just on another level.

    He doesn't offer wax potting at all. He told me that the kind of wind he uses jsut doesn't feedback, whereas BKP use a tight wind with the tape tight as hell to prevent any vibrations. Worth checking out for sure.

    How do you find the Mule? It sounds to me from clips of the 594 that the Mule has more power and mids.
     
    #41 GavQuinn, Dec 14, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  2. GavQuinn

    GavQuinn New Member

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    I’ve used a lot of unpotted PAF replicas. I’d recommend them on the neck and it opens up the tone. The bridge was good too, but the neck was really where the money was at.

    I have noticed that the unpotted pickups really show the maker’s skills. They aren’t all equal. Some unpotted were good, some felt more microphonic, some were so amazing and you didn’t even know they weren’t potted.

    if they're made right, they shouldn't feed back at all.
     
  3. ieso

    ieso New Member

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    Definitely contact Fralin and they will hook you up.
     
  4. Karan D. Taktawala

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    Honestly, I could not be happier than I am with the Mule.
    It has a very flat response depending g on how intelligently you use your tone knob which is what I wanted because my 594 is just innately a bright sounding guitar.

    With the tone at about 6 and the volume at 8.5 or 9 it pretty much sounds exactly like it would unplugged but amplified. Which is what I wanted. They also respond brilliantly to the volume knob and clean up nicely.

    I usually keep my tone at 7.5 to get the sound just bright enough and then dabble between 5.5 to 9 on the volume dependent on how driven I want the sound

    Also, I understand they pretty much scatter wind the pickup like an old PAF, it’s supposed to be a very accurate recreation of how a PAF would have been made. Not a specific PAF just a PAF so there’s no tight winding like you mentioned
     
  5. GavQuinn

    GavQuinn New Member

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    They do actually, they told me that. They scatter wind the wire but the tightness of the wind is what allows an open tone that doesn't squeal. They wrap the tape around the pickups tight, and they're taped tight if they're unpotted to ensure they don't squeal. If they're covered, they'll tape inside the cover for extra proofing against vibrations that could cause same. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just their manufacturing process.

    I just got in depth in discussion about the unpotted Mules before, it was interesting. I play with a good chunk of gain and was sceptical about going for unpotted PAFs, but they were great, they convinced me, they didn't feed back.

    It's just by contrast, Matt at Monty's has figured out the exact pattern that doesn't feed back and runs with that way. To be fair, his pickups don't shreik, but they DO feedback and it's a lovely thing. I've got a pair in an SE245 and it feeds back like a vintage Gibson, it's amazing, you can hold it and sustain a note.
     
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  6. drdoom8793

    drdoom8793 THAT guy at Chick-fil-A

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    Soooooo I'm getting an S2 Singlecut Semihollow and I'll most likely end up replacing the pickups. I really like the 58/15 set (normal, not LT), but they don't seem to pop up for sale on Reverb very often. Anybody have any recommendations for something similar?
     
  7. Alan Bean

    Alan Bean New Member

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    Nice writing, Karan.

    Here's my very early $0.02. I just bought a McCarty 594 new 3 days ago. I immediately fell in love with the neck and the control layout, as I have played Les Pauls ever since I bought my '59 in 1973. (Yes, a real burst). The PAF pickups on my '59 were unpotted and prone to feedback at high volumes/gain. So, I potted them ... travesty, you say. No. Really love the difference in sound and no feedback. (my shoulder/back are loving the lighter 594, too!)

    I just heard back from Shawn at PRS tech support and it will NOT void my warranty by potting the 58/15 LT's. These are too glassy and prone to high end squeal for me. I will report back in a couple of days when I have pulled the pickups and potted them fully. I am also replacing the linear taper volume controls with audio taper CTS (my preference).
     
  8. Boogie

    Boogie Zombie Two, DFZ

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    Just to spice up the conversation, I’ll be a bit of a contrarian. :D

    As an admitted pickup swapper, I’ll also concede that no pickups sound good through a crappy amp. Heck, fantastic pickups through a fantastic but wrong-for-the-application amp will not work. It’s not the pickups’ fault! You’ve just mismatched the guitar for the amp. The builder will match the electronics with the guitar in a way to emphasize the voice they envisioned, but what they can’t control is what you plug it into. My approach it usually to let the guitar speak for itself but if a pickup swap works, then give it a try.
     
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  9. Karan D. Taktawala

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    Nice, look forward to your findings. Since you have had a real burst in your possession. How do you feel the 594 fares in comparison to repros/an original?
     
  10. Tone-y

    Tone-y New Member

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    Alan, Alan, Alan. Are you looking for a surrogate son? Or guitar sitter for when you go on holiday? Guitars get very lonely sat in a house all by themselves you know....
     
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  11. GavQuinn

    GavQuinn New Member

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    My philosophy is thus: Lower output pickups that are brighter and for bigger headroom and gain. Pedals that give bigger headroom, amp with headroom.

    The result is a deep sound that I can add lots of brightness to or remove bass as I wish, it also gives YUGE dynamics in your picking hand, you can go from cleanish to heavy just with the pick attack. Also vol and tone knobs are far more usable with brighter pickups.

    Cleans are bright but warm, clear and smooth, rock tones have girth and serious power in the lows and mids without having to resort to adding gain. If I dig in, it sounds gainier than it is, it requires a heavy hand, 11/50 strings, but on the 245 it's easy.

    Just copped it from trying a lot of stuff and my personal idea of great tone. (My tone is stupendous)
     
  12. GavQuinn

    GavQuinn New Member

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    You've decided to pot new pickups after days of using them? Are they squealing already or is this something you think will happen?
     
  13. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    So I'm running down the same rabbit trail. I've had my 594 for about 4 months and the bridge 58/15 LT pickup just ain't cuttin it. Need something hotter. Almost installed the 59/09 but I was warned it may screw up the coil tap/push pull and tone so passed. On the forum one guy is thrilled with his Custom SD Pearly Gates, output of 8.5. Any thoughts/opinions appreciated. Not sure what to do but gotta replace the bridge. Look forward to hearing from you. Thank you.
     
  14. Karan D. Taktawala

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    So here is my thought and comment a year or something after I started my own tone chase.

    1. Be sure that your ready to mod that guitar. 58/15LTs might not be powerful enough but they’re certainly very clear. I personally found them a bit chimey which I hate

    2. Just changing the pickups might not make such a significant difference. You will need to swap out wiring too. The stock pots and capacitors leave some room to be desired.

    3. You need 50’s spec wiring because the way it’s currently wired the tone cap sits before not after the volume control, plus there’s a treble bleed installed.

    4. Whatever you get in the bridge, it might not balance with the neck well. You’ll wind up with drastically different tones. I made this mistake myself and wound up installing the same model for neck made by Bareknuckle.

    5. It might be low in power but only so much as you think when you think PAF. So if you do install something don’t go over the top like a Dimarzio or something

    6. Most companies including Duncan do not make dead reproductions of PAFs. The 59 was modelled after Jeff Beck’s 59 PAF but with more powerful mags than stock to accommodate for lower gauge strings and modern playing. The PG is a boosted mid pickup vs the original to give extra growl

    7. You need to stick to guys making dead repros. By that I mean, making them like they did back in the day. Monty’s, Bareknuckle, Throback, Wizz and so on. If you really want to do justice to what the guitar is trying to accomplish in the way it was created


     
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  15. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    Awesome information, best yet. I appreciate it very much. I play thru a Fractal AX8 so I can really beef up the LT’s to they are still a bit boring. Our band plays small local gigs so we’re not big time at all, but playing classic rock covers, blues and a little metal .
    I play my P Stock 22 with 85/15’s primarily
    but can’t beat sound of my Les Paul.
    Love my 594 but again, she’s just to weak in the bridge.
    Question : I have a lead on a 58/15 bridge but still feel the 59/09 could give me the sound in after. PRS tech support offered for me to ship to them and they’d install either one and the rate was reasonable. Would feel better having them do the work.
    Thoughts on the 2 choices?
    Wiring, pot, cap issues would be on them which I’m sure they can handle.
    Thoughts appreciated and thanks again.
     
  16. Karan D. Taktawala

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    So, 2 things I can say that you probably might already know

    1. The regular 58/15 and the 58/15LT have similar characteristics. The primary difference being the latter is underwound and that drives your amp lesser with the happy byproduct of extended range of clarity. Great if you’re into Jazz or early Rock N’ Roll. But again if you drive your amp harder that gives off this quacky nasal cocked wah quality. I really wish they put 58/15s to begin with in the bridge

    2. The 85/15, 59/09 etc are completely different animals. If you want to go down that road you might want something more refined like a 57/08

    Personally, I feel any 594 player innately wants the instrument to sound as good or better than the other singlecut G!?!&n.
    It can actually do that but first you really need to put in 50’s spec wiring with push/pull tone pots if you really want those. Then you’ve gotta look at your pickup choices. 59/09s are hot. 57/08s really well balanced but honestly if you love the acoustic response of your instrument go for Alnico 4 magnet pickups wound old school. They’re flat overall with just the right mids and treble on the top but will allow your natural tone through beautifully.


     
  17. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    So your first choice would be the 57/08 over 59/09, or am I reading you backwards?
    Thanks again.
     
  18. Karan D. Taktawala

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    08’s over 09s

     
  19. Summer

    Summer New Member

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    Ok, thanks for your help.
    Appreciate it.
     
  20. Asmonaco

    Asmonaco New Member

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    THIS!
    Like many here, I prefer the neck to the bridge in my 594 and feel the bridge may be missing some mid's and drive. I also am able to successfully compensate with my Colorsound Overdriver like a warm boost, but i'd prefer to get that same result with adjusting the guitar V and T.
    A couple of years ago, I put the Montys in my Les Paul Standard and these absolutely nail the PAF tone/feel to my ears/fingers. I had tried several other PAF repros in that guitar, but Montys did it for me. I also used the 50's wiring in the LP.
    I am still bonding with my 594SC as I've not had it long, and really like so many things about it - but already ordered Montys to try in this guitar. I also believe the wiring may prove to be a huge factor, so I intend to swap (first) the bridge PU, then the neck, then the wiring and note my results. If I end up preferring the 594 with the 50's wiring, I i will try the 58/15LT with that wiring as well. I am just very curious how much of what I hear is coming for the PU's vs the wiring.
     
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