509 Single Coil Hum Cancelling and Humbucker Performance

[yingwuzhao]

Hi guys, I have been lurking around here for a while, reading all the awesome posts of you guys.

I am GASing for a PRS as my next guitar, after playing a Fender American Pro HSS Strat for over a year... Currently I have my eyes on either a Custom 22 (piezo) or 509. I have a few questions below, that I hope you guys can help to shed some light on:

1. My living place produces a fair amount of hums on my Strat single coils, still a small amount at the bridge humbucker(shawbucker), but no hum at all at the strat's neck+middle position. So how noisy is the 509 single coil and humbucker? And how does the single coil cancelling work in 509? e.g. do the middle positions of 509 have perfect hum cancelling like strat's?

2. How does the 509 humbucker sound comparing to the typical 85/15? What's the tonal difference/compromise 509 potentially has compare to custom 22, to achieve its versatility?

3. Bonus question: how does the 509 humbucker and 85/15 sounds comparing to Fender's shawbucker? I hope they are hotter than Fender's?

Thank you

 

[Dancing Frog]

It doesn't seem to be as protected as a 513. I had a 513 and a 509 about a foot from the transformer in my power conditioner. That yields a 60Hz hum on the 509 and the 513 that's 18dB above the noise floor on the singlecoils, but the humbucking pairs are perfectly hum cancelling with no gate engaged. The singlecoil sounds on the 509 come from stealing some of the turns from the passive coils in singlecoil pairs, so they don't perfectly cancel like the mixed positions in a 513 which has the middle pick up in opposite polarity to the outside singles. In fact, it sounds like the mixed positions don't cancel at all, but I have heard worse leaking from my '69 Strat Relic.

I can't tell you what the 509's sound like with respect to the 85/15, because I've never heard them in person. But, I do know what they sound like compared to the original Treble and Bass that the 85/15's are supposed to replicate. The original T&B's were designed for long cable lengths, so they had a lot more treble on them to overcome line losses. When I listen to the demos of the 85/15, I still hear that sharpness. I do know that the 509's were not designed to sound like them, they are a more articulate and vintage voiced tone in line with the 57/08's which is more well rounded. The 57/08's were the PRS version of a really good Gibson 1957 PAF. The 509's have more of a telecaster voice than those on the bridge and more of a strat voice on the neck.

Listening to the Shawbuckers in those American Pros online, I'd think they'd be probably be a lot less treble and darker than the 509's if the 509 was an alder bodied guitar with a bolt-on neck and a steel block tremolo. The Shawbuckers are doing a lot to knock the nose off those guitars and fatten them up. Signal wise, if the specs are right, the 509's are hotter, mid-8k Ohms compared to mid to high 7's on the Shawbucker. Tonewise, the 509 is not going to be nearly as bright as those going through the same EQ. It will be warmer and fatter. If you wanted to get closer, I'd look at the Wood Library 509 run we are putting together through Brian's Guitars with maple necks and swamp ash bodies.

I hope this helps, but you were asking some extraordinarily specific questions that not many would have any direct experience with.

 

[yingwuzhao]

It doesn't seem to be as protected as a 513. I had a 513 and a 509 about a foot from the transformer in my power conditioner. That yields a 60Hz hum on the 509 and the 513 that's 18dB above the noise floor on the singlecoils, but the humbucking pairs are perfectly hum cancelling with no gate engaged. The singlecoil sounds on the 509 come from stealing some of the turns from the passive coils in singlecoil pairs, so they don't perfectly cancel like the mixed positions in a 513 which has the middle pick up in opposite polarity to the outside singles. In fact, it sounds like the mixed positions don't cancel at all, but I have heard worse leaking from my '69 Strat Relic.

I can't tell you what the 509's sound like with respect to the 85/15, because I've never heard them in person. But, I do know what they sound like compared to the original Treble and Bass that the 85/15's are supposed to replicate. The original T&B's were designed for long cable lengths, so they had a lot more treble on them to overcome line losses. When I listen to the demos of the 85/15, I still hear that sharpness. I do know that the 509's were not designed to sound like them, they are a more articulate and vintage voiced tone in line with the 57/08's which is more well rounded. The 57/08's were the PRS version of a really good Gibson 1957 PAF. The 509's are have more of a telecaster voice than those on the bridge and more of a strat voice on the neck.

Listening to the Shawbuckers in those American Pros online, I'd think they'd be probably be a lot less treble and darker than the 509's if the 509 was an alder bodied guitar with a bolt-on neck and a steel block tremolo. The Shawbuckers are doing a lot to knock the nose off those guitars and fatten them up. Signal wise, if the specs are right, the 509's are hotter, mid-8k Ohms compared to mid to high 7's on the Shawbucker. Tonewise, the 509 is not going to be nearly as bright as those going through the same EQ. It will be warmer and fatter. If you wanted to get closer, I'd look at the Wood Library 509 run we are putting together through Brian's Guitars with maple necks and swamp ash bodies.

I hope this helps, but you were asking some extraordinarily specific questions that not many would have any direct experience with.

Thank you very much Dancing Frog for the detailed reply, really appreciate it Do you mean to say that for 509, hum cancelling only exist for bridge/neck positions? and all other mixed positions have no hum cancelling...? I was really hoping mixed positions do...

A more PAF type of voicing is considered a plus from my perspective, so that's good news. I don't necessary want to get closer to a shawbucker, I have one, I am OK with it, but a fatter more LP type of tone is definitely a welcome.

Thanks again

 

[Dancing Frog]

Thank you very much Dancing Frog for the detailed reply, really appreciate it Do you mean to say that for 509, hum cancelling only exist for bridge/neck positions? and all other mixed positions have no hum cancelling...? I was really hoping mixed positions do...

Yeah, the field test definitely showed the hum cancelling was limited to the bridge and neck positions in humbucker mode.