408s vs TCI Pickups

[telewolf]

What are the differences between the new TCI pickups in Paul's Guitar and the 408s? Could TCI be drop in replacements for 408s? I have a BM and i was wondering about the difference in sounds and if it would be worth switching them out. I love my 408s btw.

 

[Rider1260]

I can't imagine there is a size difference between the Narrow 408s and the new ones ( TCI ) but I bet you can't get them without the guitar attached

 

[bodia]

I can't imagine there is a size difference between the Narrow 408s and the new ones ( TCI ) but I bet you can't get them without the guitar attached

Yeah, there's no way to get them without getting a guitar.

 

[alantig]

Yeah, there's no way to get them without getting a guitar.

They are expensive, but when you add in the free guitar...

 

[Andrew Paul]

Yeah, there's no way to get them without getting a guitar.

Yep, tried that already.

 

[Francesco]

Sorry, where can I buy the TCI pickup?

 

[shimmilou]

Sorry, where can I buy the TCI pickup?

They come with a guitar attached.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SEPGAB--prs-se-pauls-guitar-amber

 

[Shawn@PRS]

At this time, the TCI pickups are not available for purchase or installation. Hopefully Paull will allow to sell them at some point in the future.

 

[RevBillyG]

Does anyone know the science behind the TCI pickups? What makes them different than the 408s?

 

[BWV548]

Well clearly I don’t know what they did to make these pickups. However, if I were to hypothosize....
Variable capacitors can be used (tuned) for impedance matching. “Tuning” in a radio station uses this principle.
So for these pickups, perhaps they are tuning them to the resonant frequency of a finished guitar. Though, if that were the case, I’d imagine that each pickup would need to be “tuned” for each guitar, as I imagine that will vary with construction.
Someone who knows more about guitar building and audio engineering that I can feel free to correct/object to my guess

 

[Black Plaid]

I'm imagining it's less about a specific pickup, and more about the technology they used to develop it.

 

[bodia]

Does anyone know the science behind the TCI pickups? What makes them different than the 408s?

It's gotta be about capacitors. There was a video interview with Paul that I watched sometime in the last few months where he mentions that he spent the day swapping many different capacitors. He didn't specify what he was working on, but I'll be it was for the TCI pickups.

 

[Mozzi]

It maybe the Circuit board that shows up inside the Control cavity. It may not of course but I noticed the traditional green PCB inside the Core Paul's and a 'Red', less PCB looking version inside the SE Paul's. Phil McKnight opened up the cavity on his comparison video so you can see for yourself. It maybe about Capacitors - just these are on mounted on the PCB's. I would think though that this is what separates other Humbucker split coil from the TCI PU's.

 

[garrettb]

It maybe the Circuit board that shows up inside the Control cavity. It may not of course but I noticed the traditional green PCB inside the Core Paul's and a 'Red', less PCB looking version inside the SE Paul's. Phil McKnight opened up the cavity on his comparison video so you can see for yourself. It maybe about Capacitors - just these are on mounted on the PCB's. I would think though that this is what separates other Humbucker split coil from the TCI PU's.

Good info, thanks! I'll have to look for that video. I've been wondering if they updated the pickup itself, or if it was something external. I'd love to get a good look at the components to see if a homemade version is possible.

 

[Great Gazoo]

Don't listen to all this techno-babble. Here's how they make a PUP:

Double, double coil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Fillet of a fenny snake,
In the caldron boil and bake;
Eye of newt and toe of frog,
Wool of bat and tongue of dog,
Adder's fork and blind-worm's sting,
Lizard's leg and howlet's wing,
For a pickup of powerful trouble,
Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.

Double, double coil and trouble;
Fire burn and caldron bubble.
Cool it with a baboon's blood,
Then the PUP is firm and good.

*** with due apology to the Great Bard

 

[Mozzi]

Good info, thanks! I'll have to look for that video. I've been wondering if they updated the pickup itself, or if it was something external. I'd love to get a good look at the components to see if a homemade version is possible.

Here is that video. The back's are opened at around 7:58 and you can see both on screen simultaneously. The Core seems to have a much larger PCB sitting between both pots. The individual mini-toggles are above the Circuit boards which, as I said, could be the biggest difference between these and the many other guitars that offer some 'split' of a Humbucker - either via a Push/Pull pot or toggle switch. Maybe there are different capacitors on the PCB so that in different positions, the signal goes through different Capacitors - one(s) better suited to either the Humbucker or SC positions

Paul did say that the 'breakthrough' came during the development of the 635JM Single Coils for the Silver Sky. What it was though, I don't know but all I know is that these pick-ups are being reviewed very positively. The one thing that I continuously hear with regard to the TCI PU's is how good they work as SC's and how 'convincing' they sound. To me that is also saying that all other 'Split' Humbucker guitars are not as convincing, sound more like a Split Humbucker than what a Single Coil would or should have sounded like.

Anyway enjoy the video. Its a good video too if you are interested in how each guitars sound and compare.

 

[Tonart]

The singlecoil mode sounds completely different between the narrow 408’s and TCI’s. Humbucking mode not much difference.

Narrow 408’s

TCI

The guitar’s vibration is still the guitar’s vibration, that will never change, but they have tweaked the electronics to emphasise certain bandwiths and less of the rest, like a filter I suppose.

 

[garrettb]

Here is that video. The back's are opened at around 7:58 and you can see both on screen simultaneously. The Core seems to have a much larger PCB sitting between both pots. The individual mini-toggles are above the Circuit boards which, as I said, could be the biggest difference between these and the many other guitars that offer some 'split' of a Humbucker - either via a Push/Pull pot or toggle switch. Maybe there are different capacitors on the PCB so that in different positions, the signal goes through different Capacitors - one(s) better suited to either the Humbucker or SC positions

Paul did say that the 'breakthrough' came during the development of the 635JM Single Coils for the Silver Sky. What it was though, I don't know but all I know is that these pick-ups are being reviewed very positively. The one thing that I continuously hear with regard to the TCI PU's is how good they work as SC's and how 'convincing' they sound. To me that is also saying that all other 'Split' Humbucker guitars are not as convincing, sound more like a Split Humbucker than what a Single Coil would or should have sounded like.

Anyway enjoy the video. Its a good video too if you are interested in how each guitars sound and compare.

Those are not PCBs. That's just the under side of the toggle switches.

The Core has triple-pole switches, which allow some more stuff to happen in the different positions. I see a couple of capacitors on there that do not exist on the SE or original Paul's. So I can confirm at least some of the TCI magic is external to the pickups themselves.

I can't really tell what is up with the SE version, but it is different from both the Core TCI and original Paul's schemes.